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CBI Archive

Friday in a Fantasy World

Thursday, December 29th, 2005 at 10:58 AM EST

Updated: Sunday, June 18th, 2006 at 11:23 AM EST

Friday came early again. As luck would have it I actually have time off from all my various jobs so I’m going to get this posted, turn off the computer for a day or two and spend quality time with my bride. (Oops. There goes all my street cred as a comics nerd.)

As you may recall, I’ve been reading older, non-superhero books a lot the last couple of months. Well, I’m still working my way though a lot of older stuff that came in the mail, and by the way, check out THIS awesome haul –

– pause for the gloat –

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(It’s embarrassing how gleeful that makes me. As much as we all claim to be readers and lovers of the artform, I am certain that inside each of us there still lives a collector who secretly really enjoys the simple obsessive-compulsive pleasure in getting a complete run of something.)

(It’s not a COMPLETE run, no, but it knocks off over half of it, and only a couple of weeks after rhapsodizing about them here. So. Gleeful chuckles from the Hatcher household.)

…anyway. Sorry, lost focus there for a moment. But I was reading through these, and some of the old Conan books I’ve been getting in the mail, and I started feeling crabby again about the current stranglehold superheroes have on adventure comics, and then it occurred to me to wonder –

Why can’t Marvel and DC sell fantasy?

Well of course it’s all fantasy, isn’t it? But I mean “high” fantasy, the swashbuckling kind with swords and wizards and dragons and stuff.

Think about it. Comics fans are all over this stuff when it’s NOT in comics. There is a HUGE overlap between the people who regularly buy Marvel and DC books and the people who play “dark fantasy” videogames, who enjoy Dungeons & Dragons, who stood in line for the opening night of the Lord of the Rings films or the latest Harry Potter, who know the works of Anne McCaffrey and Robert E. Howard backward and forward — but almost always, when Marvel or DC puts that stuff in a comic book it sinks like a stone. The big fantasy success stories in comics are Conan the Barbarian, Warlord, and Elfquest. All gone now except the Conan revival at Dark Horse, which is doing okay numbers but not record-breaking or anything.

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So what’s up with that? Where are the fantasy geeks in comics fandom? I know you’re out there — I overhear you talking about gaming in comic shops.

I don’t actually have an answer. It just has been bugging me. To a lesser extent, I’m a little befuddled as to why no one’s been able to make science fiction really work in comics since the early 60’s. Even Star Trek never really did that well as a comic book, despite having fan-favorite Trek novelists like Peter David and Michael Jan Friedman writing the books.

This isn’t to say that publishers don’t try. And I’m thrilled to see DC, especially, taking a chance on non-costume books like Hard Time, or even the Vertigo line, though Vertigo seems to be trapped in this sort of adolescent goth/hipster/horror mode; I don’t think there’s as much overlap with the D&D fantasy folks there as there is with the superhero audience.

So you can’t really blame the publishers. It’s not them… it’s us. We don’t go for the stuff. Kull, Weirdworld, Michael Moorcock, Amethyst, Arion, whatever, in comics it’s poison.

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Why? What is the deal-breaker here? The best of Marvel’s Kull books, for example, certainly were as good or better than the Conan stuff they put out at the same time, but the Conan sold and the Kull didn’t. Neither did Tor or Stalker or Starfire or any of the other attempts to follow up on Conan’s success in the 70’s. Kull and the Barbarians was essentially the same damn magazine as Savage Sword of Conan was: the Marvel crew turning out faithful Robert E. Howard adaptations, under the watchful eye of Roy Thomas. But Conan’s book ran two hundred and thirty-plus issues and Kull’s ran three. Go figure.

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I guess the reason this keeps worrying at me, these questions of genre narrowing and re-packaging formats and the fannish refusal to try new things, is because I love comics as a form, particularly adventure comics, and I can’t shake the feeling that we are squeezing the life out of them. I keep looking at the old Marvel and DC output and comparing it with the new, and boy, the new stuff just looks sad. Not in terms of the execution, so much as it just seems like it’s… cannibalizing itself. Endless reboots, revamps, “revisiting” hero origins and Year One stories, retelling the old stories with new writers and artists. Why can’t Matt Wagner talk DC into doing an epic fantasy instead of another story of Batman’s early years? As much as I love Batman and the Monster Men, how many more versions of Batman’s origin do we need? And this is Matt Wagner for crying out loud, the guy who did Grendel and Mage. DC doesn’t trust him to do something original?

In my cartooning classes, the stuff that grabs the kids right out of the gate is the fantasy/adventure, fairy-tale stuff. They eat it up. I get so many of my girl students drawing princesses with butterfly wings you wouldn’t believe it. They don’t get it from U.S. publishers, so they find it in the manga books from Tokyopop and Viz. I’d think we could get some of the U.S. talent on the fantasy/SF bandwagon here and break a little new ground. The companies have shown a willingness to try… Dark Horse keeps trying to get an Edgar Rice Brurroughs franchise up and running, Warlord is coming back from DC for another run, Marvel periodically tries stuff like Deathlok or Star-Lord.

But for some reason, by and large we choke the stuff off. I wonder why.

Speculation is welcome, because I really don’t have a clue. Comment away.

2 Comments

You’re just not looking in the right places for the right materials, Greg. Why does everything have to come out of Marvel and DC?

There are various Dungeons & Dragons related comics currently being published by Devil’s Due Publishing.

There’s THIEVES & KINGS by Mark “M’Oak” Oakley (IBox Publishing) which has gone nearly 50 issues and has been collected in several trade editions.

Then there’s Jane Irwin’s VOGELEIN.

I kinda want to say FINDER by Carla Speed McNeil, also, but that may be a bit too SF for your purposes here and the content may not be suitable for your students.

Same with AGE OF BRONZE by Eric Shanower (Image). Too adult.

If you go back issue hunting, you could seek out Caliber Press’ OZ related books and THE REALM related stuff from them.

ARTESIA by Mark Smylie.

MOUSE GUARD by Mark Petersen. (I think half of the 6 issue mini is out.)Think RATS OF NIMH meets LOTR.

Dynamic Entertainment’s got the RED SONJA license, but I have no idea how well they’re using the character.

IDW is doing a PRINCESS OF MARS adaptation from the Burroughs story that’s upcoming in the next few months. 5, 6 issue mini.

And that’s just stuff *I* know about. And I’m not even following comics these days! There’s bound to be more.

Good post, a couple of random thoughts after reading it:

- Some of the titles put out in this period are likely victims of the rip-off perception. If all that seperates your character from Conan is that he’s got a purple hand, it’s just not going to fly, not even with kids. It’s interesting to see how the cartoon attempts that worked did so by adding elements from other genres into them, science fiction elements like mechanical men and tanks, or superhero elements like the secret identity. If anything the comic attempts in the genre had a tendency to look similar to each other by staying too true to genre (that’s not always the case, but the perception is there).

- On King Kull specifically, he’s a character that has long had trouble building the audience Conan has had and not just in comics. In his case, I believe part of his lack of appeal stems from not being a “self-made man” in the sense Conan is. He’s more or less an inhereted legacy hero which I don’t believe appeals to people (or the American public rather) on the same level. Basically, the audience rewards the guy they percieve as working for it harder, one of the reasons why Batman has a larger audience than Iron Man despite both being rich guys.

- Fantasy does work well with the manga buying public, but that audience is often not the same set of people playing AD&D. There’s a stylistic devide there, partly fueled by the video/computer gaming industry. There are console/turn-based rpg fantasy fans and dungeon crawler/hack-n-slash fans and what one audience likes in fantasy the other (from what I’ve seen) often vehemently hates.

In the manga/anime fandom’s case, they tend (on average) to be fans of the former; games like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, or Breath of Fire, and the U.S. mainstream comic market has had a terrible time trying to pull those types of readers in. For one thing, many outright hate the illustration style of mainstream comicdom, feeling it to be overly muscular or ugly (a complaint I’ve heard plenty of times about the box-art to the original release of Breath of Fire, if you google it you’ll find that said art is nowhere near the recent gba re-release). The comic industry has had two real chances to bring these fans in with Battle Chasers and Warlands but both ended up flopping on their faces due to the creators behind them. I think for many of the former potential crossover fans, that was likely the final straw.

With traditional fantasy fans, the ad&d/dungeon crawler types there seems to be an admiration for and following of Heavy Metal magazine, probably the only other long running fantasy comic publication I didn’t see mentioned. I would suspect that some may be reading the current Conan release as well, but I’m not so sure their numbers are quite that of the other group.

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