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	<title>Comments on: When a Sea of Unsold Copies Are Good For Retailers</title>
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	<description>Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good!</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin Huxford</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/comment-page-1/#comment-5374</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Huxford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t know. I think the savvy retailer doesn&#039;t buy too much on eBay speculation, but on regular customers putting in deposits for rare chase variants. Many tend to charge a price for the variant that covers them for the risk on the extra regular copies, from what I&#039;ve seen. This minimizes the &quot;bust&quot; type impact of a deplorable variant practice. The fans that get chased out are the speculator-type...and honestly...I think we&#039;re better off without them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't know. I think the savvy retailer doesn't buy too much on eBay speculation, but on regular customers putting in deposits for rare chase variants. Many tend to charge a price for the variant that covers them for the risk on the extra regular copies, from what I've seen. This minimizes the "bust" type impact of a deplorable variant practice. The fans that get chased out are the speculator-type...and honestly...I think we're better off without them.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Cronin</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/comment-page-1/#comment-4960</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Cronin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 09:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/#comment-4960</guid>
		<description>Excellent points, Alan! Sorry your post was caught by the spam-killing-bots! The spam-killers were so good (the first 300 or so posts they caught had no real posts in them) that I stopped checking them - but today, I happened to look, and found seven from the past two weeks! Sorry, folks who were caught by the spam-killer device!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent points, Alan! Sorry your post was caught by the spam-killing-bots! The spam-killers were so good (the first 300 or so posts they caught had no real posts in them) that I stopped checking them - but today, I happened to look, and found seven from the past two weeks! Sorry, folks who were caught by the spam-killer device!</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Brown</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/comment-page-1/#comment-4697</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s actually worse than that.
I&#039;m not whether there are 1 or 2 variants for CW6, but I believe there have been 2 variants for each of the first few issues - a 1:25 and a 1:75 for CW1 for example.

These have been selling on Ebay at or around ratio pricing: $25 for the regular Turner variant and $75 for the sketch variant.  Given the cover price of CW1 was $4, the situation is even more rediculous that described.  If a retailer can sell the variants for $75 and $25x3 (=$150) respectively, their cost for the regular cover issues is zero (cost $75x2=$150).  Actually, given that most retailers have a discount in excess of 50%, they have already made a profit just selling the variants.

This whole retailer intentive cover thing is really going to come home to roost in the next couple of years.  It hurts the industry in a two ways, by encouraging retailers to order more than they can possibly sell, but more importantly by encouraging the &quot;valuable collectible&quot; mentality that almost crushed comics only a decade ago.  
It isn&#039;t just marvel either, I see Wildstrom is getting into the 2-tier incentive cover thing with thier Wetworks and Wildcats launches.  

Incentive variants may yield publishers and retailers (and god knows Diamond as well) a few extra bucks in the short term, but they are going to drive people away from comics in the long term, when they realize that the Turner sketch cover they happily shelled out $75 for as an &quot;investment&quot; (I can&#039;t imagine anyone buys at $180 from Wizard, *shudder*) is going for $20 next year or the year after on Ebay.  Yep, they were scammed.  Just like they were with the death of superman and all those crappy holofoil covers.  Damn, it makes me so angry (and I wasn&#039;t even reading comics in the 90&#039;s).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's actually worse than that.<br />
I'm not whether there are 1 or 2 variants for CW6, but I believe there have been 2 variants for each of the first few issues - a 1:25 and a 1:75 for CW1 for example.</p>
<p>These have been selling on Ebay at or around ratio pricing: $25 for the regular Turner variant and $75 for the sketch variant.  Given the cover price of CW1 was $4, the situation is even more rediculous that described.  If a retailer can sell the variants for $75 and $25x3 (=$150) respectively, their cost for the regular cover issues is zero (cost $75x2=$150).  Actually, given that most retailers have a discount in excess of 50%, they have already made a profit just selling the variants.</p>
<p>This whole retailer intentive cover thing is really going to come home to roost in the next couple of years.  It hurts the industry in a two ways, by encouraging retailers to order more than they can possibly sell, but more importantly by encouraging the "valuable collectible" mentality that almost crushed comics only a decade ago.<br />
It isn't just marvel either, I see Wildstrom is getting into the 2-tier incentive cover thing with thier Wetworks and Wildcats launches.  </p>
<p>Incentive variants may yield publishers and retailers (and god knows Diamond as well) a few extra bucks in the short term, but they are going to drive people away from comics in the long term, when they realize that the Turner sketch cover they happily shelled out $75 for as an "investment" (I can't imagine anyone buys at $180 from Wizard, *shudder*) is going for $20 next year or the year after on Ebay.  Yep, they were scammed.  Just like they were with the death of superman and all those crappy holofoil covers.  Damn, it makes me so angry (and I wasn't even reading comics in the 90's).</p>
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		<title>By: markus</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/comment-page-1/#comment-4685</link>
		<dc:creator>markus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 13:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/#comment-4685</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Well, Markus, taking a quick look at eBay, it looks like itâ€™d be pretty simple for retailers to get at least $200 for the three covers if they sold them on eBay, so I donâ€™t think moving these covers should be a problem for retailers.&lt;/i&gt;
Sure, but isn&#039;t there a tragedy of the commons around the corner? The system works as long as every retailer has &quot;his&quot; own customers for the variants. The moment one, or two ro three or more retailers start ordering 75 extra copies to sell that extra variant on e-bay the market is likely to be flooded with too many variants, bringing the price down.
It isn&#039;t as if we&#039;ve not already seen speculator boom and bust in comics. But you&#039;re right, everybody is in on their own free will.


I also think David is right in that many retailers are using these variants to reward longtime or bulk customers. Which IMHO makes a lot of sense, as these people will be around whether or not there&#039;s a speculators market. Keeping them happy (and enabling retailers to keep them happy) ought to be in everyone&#039;s interest. Based on that, one would expect or hope that Marvel determines the ratio of variants based on the ratio of casual to hardcore consumers in the average comic store. Unfortunately either 1/20 or 1/75 has to be &quot;wrong&quot; from that POV and I&#039;m not sure any of them is right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Well, Markus, taking a quick look at eBay, it looks like itâ€™d be pretty simple for retailers to get at least $200 for the three covers if they sold them on eBay, so I donâ€™t think moving these covers should be a problem for retailers.</i><br />
Sure, but isn't there a tragedy of the commons around the corner? The system works as long as every retailer has "his" own customers for the variants. The moment one, or two ro three or more retailers start ordering 75 extra copies to sell that extra variant on e-bay the market is likely to be flooded with too many variants, bringing the price down.<br />
It isn't as if we've not already seen speculator boom and bust in comics. But you're right, everybody is in on their own free will.</p>
<p>I also think David is right in that many retailers are using these variants to reward longtime or bulk customers. Which IMHO makes a lot of sense, as these people will be around whether or not there's a speculators market. Keeping them happy (and enabling retailers to keep them happy) ought to be in everyone's interest. Based on that, one would expect or hope that Marvel determines the ratio of variants based on the ratio of casual to hardcore consumers in the average comic store. Unfortunately either 1/20 or 1/75 has to be "wrong" from that POV and I'm not sure any of them is right.</p>
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		<title>By: Jer</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/comment-page-1/#comment-4684</link>
		<dc:creator>Jer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 13:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/#comment-4684</guid>
		<description>This has been going on for a while.  The massive number of variants for Civil War are an interesting shift in the dynamic, and one that may have long-term repercussions, but this sort of &quot;we&#039;ll make it up on eBay&quot; mentality hits a lot of shops.  And they have done well by it, so I can&#039;t begrudge them their profits, but I&#039;m not sure that its a sustainable model.  At this point, for these &quot;event&quot; books, what you&#039;re seeing is eactly what markus says above:  Can the retailer sell 3 variants and make enough to make a profit on the shipment?  If he can, any copies of the actual book sold are pure profit.

It&#039;s a variation of the &quot;multiple-cover&quot; syndrome of the 90&#039;s, but with a twist.  The multiple covers are only offered to folks who are willing to pay a premium for them, meaning that the speculator market for them can be much smaller, AND the books look more valuable right out of the gate for those speculators who are buying them.

Is this sustainable?  I don&#039;t know.  I suppose it depends partly on how many of these variants there are out in the market, what kind of collectors are buying them, and what THEIR expectations of turnaround are.  If there are truly 90&#039;s-style speculators &quot;investing&quot; in these, then the bottom will probably fall out when people go to sell them a few years from now and realize that they aren&#039;t going to get nearly the amount of money they thought they&#039;d get for the variant Civil War #1 comic.  If these are just collectors, who want to own it just to own it and aren&#039;t looking at it as a lottery ticket, they may be able to milk the market for a longer time, and let it down gently when the collectors slow down on their purchases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been going on for a while.  The massive number of variants for Civil War are an interesting shift in the dynamic, and one that may have long-term repercussions, but this sort of "we'll make it up on eBay" mentality hits a lot of shops.  And they have done well by it, so I can't begrudge them their profits, but I'm not sure that its a sustainable model.  At this point, for these "event" books, what you're seeing is eactly what markus says above:  Can the retailer sell 3 variants and make enough to make a profit on the shipment?  If he can, any copies of the actual book sold are pure profit.</p>
<p>It's a variation of the "multiple-cover" syndrome of the 90's, but with a twist.  The multiple covers are only offered to folks who are willing to pay a premium for them, meaning that the speculator market for them can be much smaller, AND the books look more valuable right out of the gate for those speculators who are buying them.</p>
<p>Is this sustainable?  I don't know.  I suppose it depends partly on how many of these variants there are out in the market, what kind of collectors are buying them, and what THEIR expectations of turnaround are.  If there are truly 90's-style speculators "investing" in these, then the bottom will probably fall out when people go to sell them a few years from now and realize that they aren't going to get nearly the amount of money they thought they'd get for the variant Civil War #1 comic.  If these are just collectors, who want to own it just to own it and aren't looking at it as a lottery ticket, they may be able to milk the market for a longer time, and let it down gently when the collectors slow down on their purchases.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Cronin</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/comment-page-1/#comment-4673</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Cronin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 08:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ve asked people, David, and it&#039;s remarkable how many things retailers aren&#039;t always aware of. I think it&#039;s because of the predominance of the web. Marvel does pretty much ALL their business with retailers over the web now, so if you got an olde tyme comick  booke shoppe, it is probably hard to adjust.

As for who buys the variants?

Good question. I have no idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've asked people, David, and it's remarkable how many things retailers aren't always aware of. I think it's because of the predominance of the web. Marvel does pretty much ALL their business with retailers over the web now, so if you got an olde tyme comick  booke shoppe, it is probably hard to adjust.</p>
<p>As for who buys the variants?</p>
<p>Good question. I have no idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Cronin</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/comment-page-1/#comment-4665</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Cronin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 08:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/#comment-4665</guid>
		<description>Well, Markus, taking a quick look at eBay, it looks like it&#039;d be pretty simple for retailers to get at least $200 for the three covers if they sold them on eBay, so I don&#039;t think moving these covers should be a problem for retailers.

But yes, I do agree that this is basically Marvel placing the burden upon the retailers, but it is an optional one, at least. The retailers do not HAVE to order enough for the variants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Markus, taking a quick look at eBay, it looks like it'd be pretty simple for retailers to get at least $200 for the three covers if they sold them on eBay, so I don't think moving these covers should be a problem for retailers.</p>
<p>But yes, I do agree that this is basically Marvel placing the burden upon the retailers, but it is an optional one, at least. The retailers do not HAVE to order enough for the variants.</p>
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		<title>By: David Blackshore</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/comment-page-1/#comment-4630</link>
		<dc:creator>David Blackshore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 23:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good analysis.  I wonder how many retailers are aware of this; you&#039;d think most, but there are so many struggling stores out there which don&#039;t seem as dialed-in to the market.  Anecdotal evidence: my regular comics dealer does not usually order with bonus variants in mind.  He sells the variants at cover price to his best customer, who buys everything Marvel and DC put out.  I&#039;ve heard him offer it for the aggregate price of all the regular editions required to get the special cover (eg, for a 1/20 cover priced at $3, he would ask for $60 for the variant).  But then again, he might only offer that for pre-orders.

The real question is this: who&#039;s buying these variant covers (which are frequently inferior to the regular cover art, at least IMO) at $180 a pop?  If you generously estimate the combined DC/Marvel market at 500,000, that would be a pretty high percentage who are willing to pay a whopping premium for a relatively minor variation.  But I guess comics attract these obsessive collector types.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good analysis.  I wonder how many retailers are aware of this; you'd think most, but there are so many struggling stores out there which don't seem as dialed-in to the market.  Anecdotal evidence: my regular comics dealer does not usually order with bonus variants in mind.  He sells the variants at cover price to his best customer, who buys everything Marvel and DC put out.  I've heard him offer it for the aggregate price of all the regular editions required to get the special cover (eg, for a 1/20 cover priced at $3, he would ask for $60 for the variant).  But then again, he might only offer that for pre-orders.</p>
<p>The real question is this: who's buying these variant covers (which are frequently inferior to the regular cover art, at least IMO) at $180 a pop?  If you generously estimate the combined DC/Marvel market at 500,000, that would be a pretty high percentage who are willing to pay a whopping premium for a relatively minor variation.  But I guess comics attract these obsessive collector types.</p>
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		<title>By: markus</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/07/31/when-a-sea-of-unsold-copies-are-good-for-retailers/comment-page-1/#comment-4629</link>
		<dc:creator>markus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 23:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;Therefore, even if the retailer only thinks s/he will sell 100 copies, it makes every bit of sense in the world to order 225 copies, even if it means sitting on one hundred and twenty-five unsold copies of the book.&lt;/i&gt;
I&#039;d change that to &quot;if the retailer thinks he or she can sell three rare variants for $75 a piece&quot; as that is where the bulk of the money in your example is comming from.
At this point it also becomes clear that functionally Marvel could just set a high enough price point (and distribute on the basis of favour) or auction off items of a set print run. Except that in the present way Marvel transfers the risk and uncertainty onto the retailers AND gets inflated sales figures in the deal.
I have no idea, why retailers do not refuse to pay this game that&#039;s rigged against them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Therefore, even if the retailer only thinks s/he will sell 100 copies, it makes every bit of sense in the world to order 225 copies, even if it means sitting on one hundred and twenty-five unsold copies of the book.</i><br />
I'd change that to "if the retailer thinks he or she can sell three rare variants for $75 a piece" as that is where the bulk of the money in your example is comming from.<br />
At this point it also becomes clear that functionally Marvel could just set a high enough price point (and distribute on the basis of favour) or auction off items of a set print run. Except that in the present way Marvel transfers the risk and uncertainty onto the retailers AND gets inflated sales figures in the deal.<br />
I have no idea, why retailers do not refuse to pay this game that's rigged against them.</p>
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