Comments on: Judging (DC's November) Books By Their Covers http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/ Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good! Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:28:50 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Brian Cronin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6795 Brian Cronin Sun, 03 Sep 2006 17:00:32 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6795 Quoting wikipedia here, Colorforms are an American toy that consist of "paper-thin, die-cut vinyl sheet images and shapes that could be applied to a slick cardboard background board, much like placing paper-dolls against a paper backdrop. The images would stick to the background via static cling and could be repositioned to create new scenes." Therefore, when I say a cover looks like colorforms, I mean that it appears as though the artist drew a backdrop and then used photoshop to place a separate image on to the backdrop, giving it a disjointed feel that is similar to what colorforms look like. Quoting wikipedia here, Colorforms are an American toy that consist of "paper-thin, die-cut vinyl sheet images and shapes that could be applied to a slick cardboard background board, much like placing paper-dolls against a paper backdrop. The images would stick to the background via static cling and could be repositioned to create new scenes."

Therefore, when I say a cover looks like colorforms, I mean that it appears as though the artist drew a backdrop and then used photoshop to place a separate image on to the backdrop, giving it a disjointed feel that is similar to what colorforms look like.

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By: Farzio http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6790 Farzio Sun, 03 Sep 2006 16:40:18 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6790 Okay, what does "color form" mean? Or is it "colorform"? I've seen you use it a lot (English being second language and all that) Maybe you should do an article about it. Why, I don't know. Just so I learn. Thanks. Okay, what does "color form" mean? Or is it "colorform"?
I've seen you use it a lot (English being second language and all that)
Maybe you should do an article about it. Why, I don't know. Just so I learn.

Thanks.

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By: Brian Cronin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6169 Brian Cronin Sat, 26 Aug 2006 06:41:50 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6169 I think, as Bernet designed the cover, the reader's eye is meant to see Jonah Hex tortured #1, then the confederate flag #2, and only then their eyes go to the background characters #3. Whether people view the image like that or not, I believe that was Bernet's intent, and his intent seems to be to subtly take the reader from a scene of "Oh lord! Some varmits are torturing Jonah Hex!" to "Oh wait...confederate flag? And are those Union soldiers?" I think that's a nice, nuanced approach by Bernet, rather than having the cover be the union soldiers in the forefront, clearly torturing Jonah. I think, as Bernet designed the cover, the reader's eye is meant to see Jonah Hex tortured #1, then the confederate flag #2, and only then their eyes go to the background characters #3.

Whether people view the image like that or not, I believe that was Bernet's intent, and his intent seems to be to subtly take the reader from a scene of "Oh lord! Some varmits are torturing Jonah Hex!" to "Oh wait...confederate flag? And are those Union soldiers?"

I think that's a nice, nuanced approach by Bernet, rather than having the cover be the union soldiers in the forefront, clearly torturing Jonah.

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By: Ragnell http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6145 Ragnell Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:56:01 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6145 What Jonah is draped in is draped across the cover. This cover beats you over the head with this. What Jonah is draped in is draped across the cover.

This cover beats you over the head with this.

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By: Brian Cronin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6086 Brian Cronin Fri, 25 Aug 2006 01:22:20 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6086 Right, Bernet, with his cover, is calling into question the entire notion of who the "hero" is. He's showing subtle differences in the meaning of "good guy" and "bad guy." The "hero" is the Confederate. The "villains" are the Union. The "villains" are the emancipated black Union soldier, present for a lynching of a Southern soldier. All of this, though, is not immediately present in the image - at first glance, it's just Jonah Hex being tortured. The extra information is subtler, in the background (and by what Jonah is draped in). Right, Bernet, with his cover, is calling into question the entire notion of who the "hero" is. He's showing subtle differences in the meaning of "good guy" and "bad guy."

The "hero" is the Confederate.

The "villains" are the Union. The "villains" are the emancipated black Union soldier, present for a lynching of a Southern soldier.

All of this, though, is not immediately present in the image - at first glance, it's just Jonah Hex being tortured. The extra information is subtler, in the background (and by what Jonah is draped in).

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By: Ragnell http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6078 Ragnell Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:44:21 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6078 It only works if you automatically ASSUME that the Union soldiers are bad and the Confederates good. Which is only possible if you somehow miss the blindingly obvious point that the HERO is DRAPED with a Confederate Flag No closer inspection necessary. It only works if you automatically ASSUME that the Union soldiers are bad and the Confederates good. Which is only possible if you somehow miss the blindingly obvious point that the HERO is DRAPED with a Confederate Flag

No closer inspection necessary.

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By: Brian Cronin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6077 Brian Cronin Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:34:43 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6077 We have our hero (Jonah Hex) being tortured by some folks. Upon closer inspection, however, the hero is the “bad guy” (Confederate soldier) and the torturers are the “good guys,” along with a black soldier, watching a man get lynched - only all the Union soldier stuff (particularly the black soldier) are in the background, with the eye-catching torture scene popping out to the viewer, with the viewer having to take a second glance to notice that the varmints who are torturing Jonah Hex are the “good guys.” I thought it was a nice subtle difference with “accepted” roles. But hey, let's check the dictionary - "1. a subtle difference or distinction in expression, meaning, response, etc." Works for me, but I can see how it might not for you. We have our hero (Jonah Hex) being tortured by some folks. Upon closer inspection, however, the hero is the “bad guy” (Confederate soldier) and the torturers are the “good guys,” along with a black soldier, watching a man get lynched - only all the Union soldier stuff (particularly the black soldier) are in the background, with the eye-catching torture scene popping out to the viewer, with the viewer having to take a second glance to notice that the varmints who are torturing Jonah Hex are the “good guys.” I thought it was a nice subtle difference with “accepted” roles.

But hey, let's check the dictionary - "1. a subtle difference or distinction in expression, meaning, response, etc."

Works for me, but I can see how it might not for you.

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By: Ragnell http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6074 Ragnell Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:59:59 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6074 And (hit enter too early) the good guy bad guy thing is not really a switch. Jonah Hex is established as an ex-confederate soldier. The Confederate flag is draped over him. His general costume is the Confederate uniform. He fought on the side of the Confederacy in the war. It's not surprising that the Union soldiers are the ones mistreating him, especially given that Jonah wears that Confederate uniform on several of the previous Jonah Hex covers. And (hit enter too early) the good guy bad guy thing is not really a switch. Jonah Hex is established as an ex-confederate soldier. The Confederate flag is draped over him. His general costume is the Confederate uniform. He fought on the side of the Confederacy in the war. It's not surprising that the Union soldiers are the ones mistreating him, especially given that Jonah wears that Confederate uniform on several of the previous Jonah Hex covers.

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By: Ragnell http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6073 Ragnell Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:54:09 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6073 Well, like I said, disagreements and opinions, but I do think you may need to look up some words in your dictionary. There is NOTHING subtle about the Jonah Hex cover. Slightly faded figures against a single colored background does not equal subtlety. It's shorthand for ghostly, it's readily apparent on the first glance. Nuanced and Subtle would be the Fables cover, where the tentacles are disguised as a wartime backdrop in the shadows. If you glance at it you get the overall impression but don't immediately see the details that lead to it. It gives a feeling, but it's not immediately obvious why. The Jonah Hex cover is a number of images together, nothing is disguised or hidden, it is far from subtle, it beats the point over your head. Well, like I said, disagreements and opinions, but I do think you may need to look up some words in your dictionary.

There is NOTHING subtle about the Jonah Hex cover. Slightly faded figures against a single colored background does not equal subtlety. It's shorthand for ghostly, it's readily apparent on the first glance.

Nuanced and Subtle would be the Fables cover, where the tentacles are disguised as a wartime backdrop in the shadows. If you glance at it you get the overall impression but don't immediately see the details that lead to it. It gives a feeling, but it's not immediately obvious why.

The Jonah Hex cover is a number of images together, nothing is disguised or hidden, it is far from subtle, it beats the point over your head.

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By: T. http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6066 T. Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:24:39 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6066 Yeah, I stirred the pot up some in the comments section to that Morrison interview. Yeah, I stirred the pot up some in the comments section to that Morrison interview.

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By: ninjawookie http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6050 ninjawookie Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:54:53 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6050 the snarky comments were particularly funny this month. Myspace kudos to you. Are you going to be posting up the Grant Morrison Interview from newsarama, it's just so funny. the snarky comments were particularly funny this month. Myspace kudos to you.

Are you going to be posting up the Grant Morrison Interview from newsarama, it's just so funny.

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By: Jesse Leon McCann http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6008 Jesse Leon McCann Thu, 24 Aug 2006 00:45:40 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6008 Thanks for mentioning KRYPTO again-- Jeralds is awesome. But, I would be remiss if I didn't mention colorist Dave Tanguay's contribution to the series' gorgeous covers. And wait 'til you see Min Ku and Dave's inside art! Thanks for mentioning KRYPTO again-- Jeralds is awesome. But, I would be remiss if I didn't mention colorist Dave Tanguay's contribution to the series' gorgeous covers. And wait 'til you see Min Ku and Dave's inside art!

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By: T. http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6002 T. Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:38:59 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6002 I think I know why I liked the original better. The new one looks more professional and polished, which is a good thing. It shows how Chakykin has improved as a technician. But the fact that the original has more rawness and technical crudeness almost seems to work for it, especially in conveying Guy Gardner's attitude. I think I know why I liked the original better. The new one looks more professional and polished, which is a good thing. It shows how Chakykin has improved as a technician. But the fact that the original has more rawness and technical crudeness almost seems to work for it, especially in conveying Guy Gardner's attitude.

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By: Brian Cronin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-6000 Brian Cronin Wed, 23 Aug 2006 22:57:27 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-6000 Oh yeah, that's also what I loved about the new cover - it totally captured the same spirit of the original. I do agree that the original is a superior cover, though. Oh yeah, that's also what I loved about the new cover - it totally captured the same spirit of the original.

I do agree that the original is a superior cover, though.

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By: JR http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-5987 JR Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:04:31 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-5987 The color choices in the update are better (blue background instead of the red), but I think more attitude shows through in the original. The color choices in the update are better (blue background instead of the red), but I think more attitude shows through in the original.

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By: T. http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-5981 T. Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:44 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-5981 Which one do you like better, Chaykin's original or the updated? The updated is more polished, I think, but something about the original I really like. Which one do you like better, Chaykin's original or the updated? The updated is more polished, I think, but something about the original I really like.

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By: Greg Geren http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-5955 Greg Geren Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:08:33 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-5955 I love it when an artist homages himself: http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=40947&zoom=4 The new one is not so much an homage as an update, I think. I love it when an artist homages himself:

http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=40947&zoom=4

The new one is not so much an homage as an update, I think.

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By: kelvingreen http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-5954 kelvingreen Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:07:06 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-5954 Okay, my memory was playing tricks on me; the Judge Dredd cover <a href="http://www.2000adonline.com/functions/cover.php?Comic=graphicnovels&choice=damned" rel="nofollow">isn't that similar</a>, although it's the same basic idea. Okay, my memory was playing tricks on me; the Judge Dredd cover isn't that similar, although it's the same basic idea.

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By: Brian Cronin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-5928 Brian Cronin Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:32:42 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-5928 <blockquote>I have to disagree on just about everything, but mainly on these points:</blockquote> Well, I certainly don't <i>have</i> to disagree, but you made it look like so much fun! <blockquote>The green background issupposed to look creepy (Kryptonite is scary);</blockquote> Not scary creepy - weird, smelly person talking to themselves sitting next to you on the train creepy. <blockquote> the Chaykin Guy Gardner cover features static pose and smile, is a banal and overused sentiment with this character and not nearly as appealing as Gibbon’s Guy Gardner, who is in action with tentacle imagery;</blockquote> Gibbons' Guy is well-drawn, but he's not doing anything special. Chaykin's Guy has panache! And the sentiment IS the character! Like having a cover with Batman being menacing! But if you don't that particular take on Guy Gardner, I can perfectly understand why it would not be appealing to you as a cover. <blockquote> the Outsiders cover falls apart because Acuna did not get the faces (particularly Grace’s) and figures right, the layout is perfectly fine;</blockquote> The layout is all over the place! It looks like Metamorpho is sucking a boomerang up his ass! But yeah, the faces <i>are</i> all off. Although I'll take that Grace over the actual one! <blockquote> the Karl Kerschl cover does indeed make me want to buy Secret Six;</blockquote> Well, I can't very well disagree with your personal opinion, so that's cool! <blockquote> the Freedom Fighters cover idea is far from silly;</blockquote> It's a superhero all decked up like one of those terrorist videos we see on the internet every once in awhile - seems pretty silly to me! The very height of taking oneself too seriously! Again, though, I can see how "silly" can certainly be in the eye of the beholder! <blockquote>the Boys cover is brilliant; </blockquote> Again, can't very well argue with that! I think it's boring (and talk about static) and you think it is brilliant. Damn mileage varying!!! <blockquote>I’ve seen the reflection trick on the A Man Called Kev used to greater effect and beauty elsewhere, here it’s clumsy;</blockquote> Wait, this isn't the first time it's been used? Oh crap, it must suck then! My bad! Seriously, though, again, I differ, but that old mileage is varying again! <blockquote> none of your top five should be in the top five;</blockquote> Well argued! <blockquote> and the Jonah Hex cover is not “nuanced” in any way, shape or form. </blockquote> Except for the shapes and forms of the drawings on the cover! Seriously, though, here we have the "bad guy" (Confederate soldier) being tortured by the "good guys," along with a black soldier, watching a man get lynched - only all the Union soldier stuff (particularly the black soldier) are in the background, with the eye-catching torture scene popping out to the viewer, with the viewer having to take a second glance to notice that the varmints who are torturing Jonah Hex are the "good guys." I thought it was a nice subtle difference with "accepted" roles.

I have to disagree on just about everything, but mainly on these points:

Well, I certainly don't have to disagree, but you made it look like so much fun!

The green background issupposed to look creepy (Kryptonite is scary);

Not scary creepy - weird, smelly person talking to themselves sitting next to you on the train creepy.

the Chaykin Guy Gardner cover features static pose and smile, is a banal and overused sentiment with this character and not nearly as appealing as Gibbon’s Guy Gardner, who is in action with tentacle imagery;

Gibbons' Guy is well-drawn, but he's not doing anything special.

Chaykin's Guy has panache! And the sentiment IS the character! Like having a cover with Batman being menacing!

But if you don't that particular take on Guy Gardner, I can perfectly understand why it would not be appealing to you as a cover.

the Outsiders cover falls apart because Acuna did not get the faces (particularly Grace’s) and figures right, the layout is perfectly fine;

The layout is all over the place! It looks like Metamorpho is sucking a boomerang up his ass! But yeah, the faces are all off. Although I'll take that Grace over the actual one!

the Karl Kerschl cover does indeed make me want to buy Secret Six;

Well, I can't very well disagree with your personal opinion, so that's cool!

the Freedom Fighters cover idea is far from silly;

It's a superhero all decked up like one of those terrorist videos we see on the internet every once in awhile - seems pretty silly to me! The very height of taking oneself too seriously! Again, though, I can see how "silly" can certainly be in the eye of the beholder!

the Boys cover is brilliant;

Again, can't very well argue with that! I think it's boring (and talk about static) and you think it is brilliant.

Damn mileage varying!!!

I’ve seen the reflection trick on the A Man Called Kev used to greater effect and beauty elsewhere, here it’s clumsy;

Wait, this isn't the first time it's been used? Oh crap, it must suck then! My bad!

Seriously, though, again, I differ, but that old mileage is varying again!

none of your top five should be in the top five;

Well argued!

and the Jonah Hex cover is not “nuanced” in any way, shape or form.

Except for the shapes and forms of the drawings on the cover!

Seriously, though, here we have the "bad guy" (Confederate soldier) being tortured by the "good guys," along with a black soldier, watching a man get lynched - only all the Union soldier stuff (particularly the black soldier) are in the background, with the eye-catching torture scene popping out to the viewer, with the viewer having to take a second glance to notice that the varmints who are torturing Jonah Hex are the "good guys." I thought it was a nice subtle difference with "accepted" roles.

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By: Brian Cronin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-5927 Brian Cronin Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:00:24 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/21/udging-dcs-november-books-by-their-covers/#comment-5927 <blockquote>Whole lot of what I call “extracted panel” covers this time: covers that might just as well have been panels from inside the book, since they’re competently drawn action shots without much thematic weight or special visual “pop.”</blockquote> Good call, Omar. I think the Green Lantern Corps cover is a great example of that. Looks almost literally like it IS a panel from the inside comic!! <blockquote>And that Kitson cover for LSH basically is a 30-something year-old cover — there were a couple of covers from Avengers during the Korvac Saga that had the same basic idea and layout. </blockquote> I know the issue you're referring to (#176, right?), but I don't think it's trying for nearly the same scale as this Legion cover. And I think that's mainly because they DIDN'T have the technology then to pull it off, so they had to go with what they did on that cover, which was reduce the size of the figure (and the light emanations). If they tried to fill the whole cover with it, I think it would have looked much worse than this Legion cover (not that this Legion cover is some amazing cover or anything).

Whole lot of what I call “extracted panel” covers this time: covers that might just as well have been panels from inside the book, since they’re competently drawn action shots without much thematic weight or special visual “pop.”

Good call, Omar. I think the Green Lantern Corps cover is a great example of that. Looks almost literally like it IS a panel from the inside comic!!

And that Kitson cover for LSH basically is a 30-something year-old cover — there were a couple of covers from Avengers during the Korvac Saga that had the same basic idea and layout.

I know the issue you're referring to (#176, right?), but I don't think it's trying for nearly the same scale as this Legion cover. And I think that's mainly because they DIDN'T have the technology then to pull it off, so they had to go with what they did on that cover, which was reduce the size of the figure (and the light emanations). If they tried to fill the whole cover with it, I think it would have looked much worse than this Legion cover (not that this Legion cover is some amazing cover or anything).

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