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CSBG Archive

Snark Free Corner for 9/25

Welcome to the latest installment of your breath of snark free air!

Enjoy!

COOL COMIC THINGS

Returning characters from the dead.

I understand that it is a tight line to walk, but I think that, when the character is cool enough, does it really matter?

SPOILERS!

In this past issue of Checkmate, we saw the return of…RICK FLAG!

Yes, the same Rick Flag who detonated a nuclear bomb inside a mountain – but whatever, it’s Rick Flag, man!!

Rick Flag was a cool character.

Likewise, another Suicide Squad member was returned to us recently named Nemesis.

Nemesis had an issue DEVOTED TO HIS DEATH. And when I say devoted to his death, I mean it was specifically designed so that we would know that he was, in fact, d-e-a-d dead.

And now he’s back!!

I am so pleased.

Now we only need to see Ice and Ted Kord return.

WHO’S YER FAV’RIT…

original member of the Guardians of the Galaxy?

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Vance Astro?

Charlie-27?

Martinex?

or Yondu?

COVER HOMAGE

One cool point to the first person who can tell me which cover this Punisher War Journal cover is homaging!

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Here is an archive of past cover homages!

SNARK FREE CHALLENGE

Who can solve a riddle faster – Batman or Superman with Super-Intelligence?

COVER THEME GAME

Here’s the game. I show three covers. They all have something in common, whether it be a character, locale, creator, SOMEthing. And it isn’t something obvious like “They all have prices!” “They all have logos!” “They all feature a man!” etc.

One cool point to the person who first guesses correctly!

1.

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2.

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3.

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Well, that’s it for this installment of Snark Free Corner.

Hope you had fun!

68 Comments

At the risk of looking like a schmuck…the protagonist on each over is wearing red, while the other character sports green. I’m not anywhere near the answer, am I?

I say that it doesn’t matter if the character is cool enough. The explanation for how he’s alive needs to be the cool part. When it’s something like “I just managed to slip out in time!”, then I say it’s lame.

1: I think it’s heroes wearing red, villains sporting green (assuming the guy in the last one is the Green Goblin).

Animal themed villian?

All three covers have a hero alongside a character dressed in green?

SanctumSanctorumComix

September 25, 2006 at 1:59 pm

Homage is Punisher (1995 mini) # 3.

Cover contest (if not heroes wear red, villans wear green) is animal themed character (not just villain).
Oh…and they’re all Marvel books.

~P~
P-TOR

SanctumSanctorumComix

September 25, 2006 at 2:00 pm

PUNISHER 1985 mini
not 1995 mini

damned fast type

~P~
P-TOR

SanctumSanctorumComix

September 25, 2006 at 2:02 pm

Hey. Another similarity on the covers…

All three heroes have their right leg bent back like that.

Uh… no?

~P~
P-TOR

Charlie-27! I mean c’mon. . . the guy’s from friggin’ Jupiter!

SanctumSanctorumComix

September 25, 2006 at 2:03 pm

OOh!

All 3 covers have craptastically basic backgrounds!

Uh…OK I’m done.

;-)

~P~
P-TOR

Isn’t that an old Nick Fury cover by Steranko? I don’t know the number, but isn’t it?

Lynn Michaels is the Punisher?

I definitely don’t remember demanding that…

Guardians of the Galaxy was awesome! Well, at least until Valentino was booted. Here, though, is a link to what Valentino would have done had he not been kicked off the book: http://www.imagecomics.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=144

RE: Guardians of the Galaxy

Is it good or bad when you line up four characters and a list of names and can’t reasonably guess which name belongs to which character?

Unless the names are in order from left to right. Hmm…

“Returning characters from the dead.

I understand that it is a tight line to walk, but I think that, when the character is cool enough, does it really matter?

Yes! Dead should mean dead! You can write stories about the characters legacy or Flashbacks with the characters in ‘em, but fertheloveofGod let them rest in peace!

The SOLE exception to this should be Cheeks the Toy Wonder.

MARTINEX. Shiny!

Batman vs Superman in a riddle contest…

I like to think of it as a car race. Superman has all the horsepower yet Batman’s car has all the traction. So while Superman’s (technically) superior car is squeling tyres at the start of the race, Batman has already taken off for a nice headstart.

If a character is d-e-a-d dead–then leave them that way–it cheapens the earlier stories.

If there’s doubt–sure bring them back–but Flag & Nemesis were d-e-a-d dead–and as cool as they were leave them…

Ted Kord?

I may make an exception for him…

Lynn Michaels, a supporting character introducted in Chuck Dixon’s War Zone, was a cop who quit the force yet was inspired to become a vigilante herself after seeing Medium Sized Pun in action. After the disorganized and ill-recieved “Suicide Run” storyline, Lynn was one of the new Punishers appearing in War Journal, while C.C. Redondo took over the regular Punisher ongoing.

Frank Castle himself had been imprisoned by Microchip to prevent him from committing suicide, after the events of “Suicide Run” and “Pariah”. Castle was also public enemy #1 after executing a corrupt member of V.I.G.I.L. live on TV.

Part of the Lynn Michaels thing was that Sophia Crawford- Yes, THAT Sophia Crawford, from Hong Kong flicks like Cyprus Tigers and and stunt doubling for Sarah Michelle Gellar- was being considered for a possible feature/TV project.

The problem was, both of these post-death of Supes/sales boosting experiments failed to catch on and eventually Frank escaped, and all three Punisher books were canceled in early 1995, paving the way for the short lived Ostrander/Lyle relaunch.

I still don’t get how changes down the line “cheapen” earlier stories. I can maybe see it in theory, but it’s never really come across in practice.

It can interfere with suspension of disbelief pretty badly, depending on what later authors opted to do. “That’s a great story where so-and-so died, too bad it ends up not actually mattering.” A really well-done resurrection doesn’t really engender feelings like that, IMO, it’s just that most resurrections are handled poorly or simply ignore earlier stories where so-and-so died.

I say Ted Kord is the new Barry Allen. The hardcore fanboys are still moaning about his death, but once the new kid has a chance to really shine, Ted will be the second official patron saint of the DCU…

–yo
Saint of Excessive Sit-Ups

Superman would solve the riddle first, but only because it would help him stop Lois’ latest scheme to trick him into marriage.

From hearing the question to figuring out the answer, Superman. But Batman would hit the buzzer first, because he already knew the answer.

Prep time, bitches.

Yo Go Re: I sure hope not. Barry at least got to die saving the universe; Ted sacrificed himself in order to… leave a nasty stain on Max’s rug. He shoulda defeated a bad guy or saved a busload of nuns at least.

About the three covers – They all feature villains who have no superpowers but use supersuits: the Flying Tiger, the Scorpion, and the Green Goblin.

Superman with Super-Intelligence would solve the riddle first, Batman would just be beating the Riddler senseless.

My favorite return from the dead is Jason Todd.

“Hey, Jason Todd’s alive!”
“How’d that happen?”
“Superboy-Prime punched the wall!”
“Ah, of course.”

That’s my favorite explanation for anything because it’s just so ridiculous! And it can explain anything

“Didn’t Star Wars used to be cool?”
“Yeah, until Superboy-Prime punched the wall.”

“Wasn’t Civil War supposed to come out today.”
“It was, but Superboy-Prime punched the wall.”

“Isn’t that my lunch you’re eating.”
“It was, but Superboy-Prime punched the wall so it’s mine now.”

I’m gonna go with Batman in the riddle-solving contest, just because I believe in the specialty rule. Matt’s horsepower vs traction analogy works for me!

And yeah, I would totally be cool with the resurrection of Ted Kord, no matter how goofy the reasoning. I don’t even care if they have to say the dead one was a clone, or a robot with… mechanical blood.

“Reality punching” would work well for the various JLI characters.

“Hey, Maxwell Lord’s back! And not evil! What gives, Max?”
“Superboy punched time.”
“Really, because I thought-”
“SUPERBOY PUNCHED TIME!”

(I gotta say, I was never completely down on that plot point. It’s goofy as Hell, but anything that confirms continuity as no-stronger-than-silly-putty is okay by me.)

Is it good or bad when you line up four characters and a list of names and can’t reasonably guess which name belongs to which character?

Unless the names are in order from left to right. Hmm…

It is indeed meant to be read left to right.

Sorry for not being more clear with that!

Sorry, sterg — the Scorpion is indeed super-powered, as his origin involves his being mutated to have greater physical strengththan Spider-Man.

D’oh! You’re right there, Omar. Still, all 3 do have enhanced suits that help them do evil…

About the three covers – They all feature villains who have no superpowers but use supersuits: the Flying Tiger, the Scorpion, and the Green Goblin.

The Green Goblin didn’t use a super-suit at that point in time (the short-lived Bart Hamilton tenure), did he?

Any powers the Green Goblin had at the time were due to serum. The suit itself didn’t do anything.

So Hamilton didn’t have any powers.

That being said, that’s a helluva guess. Not what I was going for (and, like I said, I don’t think the Goblin suit gives you powers – unless the electric charge from the gloves count), but a great guess.

For future reference, though, if I wanted the Green Goblin to be someone people had to guess about, I’d use a cover with the Green Goblin clearly on it, not as a shadow – I think that’d be a bit too far for the guessers to go – I’m already asking for a lot with just the characters actually featured ON the covers!

By the by, I meant to mention this (and I think I’ll include it in the future when I do Cover Theme Games) before I saw sterg’s comment.

You won’t be able to guess these Cover Theme Games unless you know some comic history – like sterg, who knew that Flying Tiger wasn’t actually a Flying Tiger, but a dude in a suit.

So just remember that in the future – it won’t ever be something that someone with no comic knowledge will be able to guess, like “All the caption boxes have 12 letters” or anything like that.

Remember people, you NEVER SAW KORD BEING INCINERATED.

Escape route, lol!

All these dead JLI guys will return at the end of 52 in the form of creepy zombie ghosts with Dibny as Dr Fate. Man, imagine how annoyed all the JLI fans are gonna be to see them all come back as….shambling, rotting corpses with their jaws hanging off or something. Awesome.

All three heroes have had, at one time or another, been publically known. Iron Man revealed himself before replacing the Red Skull as Secretary of Defense, Daredevil had his name leaked to the press by one of the Kingpin’s goons, and Spidey pulled his mask off on live TV during the Civil War.

OK, so let’s get serious.

All covers have characters who are not the
originals. That Iron Man is Jim Rhodes, that
scorpion is an android and that Green Goblin is
Bart Hamilton.

It might not be the right answer, but it IS a
correct answer…

Best,
Hunter (Pedro Bouça)

Fine guess, Pedro, but as I mentioned earlier, if the character isn’t actually featured on the cover, I wouldn’t expect anyone to use him (as that is just expecting too much to expect folks to not just come up with a theme involving characters featured on the covers, but to also do so using characters NOT on the cover? – too much), and since the Goblin is not actually on the cover, I wouldn’t expect anyone to use him to make any connections (so, for the record, he’s not part of any connection).

I tend to like character resurections best when they’re played non-chalantly like the two you mentioned.
“Hey weren’t you dead?”
“Who, me? I don’t know what you’re talking about.”

One of the things I really liked about the Dragonball series was that death was literally something the characters joked about. If you weren’t a bad-guy or somebody who wanted to be dead (“No, no, don’t wish me back, I’m having too much fun here!”), chances were you’d be coming back some way or another.

Oh, and I also don’t mind knocking the stories where they come back if they’re dumb or whatever.

But we forget the dumb stories as time goes by, but in the meantime, we get to see awesome characters again!!

Does anyone even remember how Doc Ock was brought back over the years? Or Doc Doom?

Each of them has had AWFUL returning stories, and yet, do we really want to be sans Drs. Doom and Octopus?

Of COURSE not!

So why deprive us of Ted Kord, Rick Flag and Nemesis?

Bad guys do seem to get more slack in that regard, oddly enough.

“So why deprive us of Ted Kord, Rick Flag and Nemesis?”

depends what they do with the characters if they bring em back, i guess.

…I still think an entire justice league made up of zombie deadheads would be cool, though. It could reach the heights of Justice League Extreme!

Vance was my favorite Guardians character as a kid. In fact, my old Prodigy chat handle was Victory after him.

Looking back as an adult, I can appreciate his pre-Major Victory (70s) era stuff more, even though he was a dick.

And I too think it’s crazy that they didn’t give us back Ice when they had the chance (though if you find SOME way to work I Can’t Believe it’s not the Justice League into canon, it makes Fire’s breakdown and current role make a bit more sense).

I have to agree with Cronin – I used to think that dead should mean dead, but I’m not firmly in the camp of bring ‘em back. Characters are usually killed off for either pointless melodrama or to make some kind of point that the villain in question really is a tough bastard/psycho weirdo who means business. Even the more “meaningful” deaths are really only meaningful to folks who were reading the book at the time – 10 or 20 years later, it shouldn’t make a big difference.

(Yeah, I was someone who was ticked off when they brought back Phoenix, but now I’m mellow about it – I liked Jean more after she came back from the dead than I ever did before she died, so overall a net plus on them bringing her back).

“Ted sacrificed himself in order to… leave a nasty stain on Max’s rug.”

Yeah, but that rug really tied the room together.

Remember people, you NEVER SAW KORD BEING INCINERATED.

Even incineration isn’t definitive. Len Wein had Spider-Man throw his clone into an incinerator in ASM #151, and the clone *still* managed to survive.

And in an issue of Starman, Jack Knight managed to bounce back from being blown up.

On the three covers every character on the cover also has their name written somewhere on the cover, which probably isn’t the right answer, but it is true non-the-less.

cover homage:
ok the Punisher cover reminds me (probably incorrectly) of Punisher’s first appearence in Spiderman in the 70s (which is of course his first appearence in comics in general). Either that or Archie meets Punisher…but maybe its just because all of these covers feature the Punisher on the cover toting a big gun…I mean how many covers can you possibly have with just tha–oh…wait.

snark free challange:
Since Superman has Super-intelligence I’m going to assume that the riddle would be asked in the Silver Age. In which case Superman and Batman would aswer different parts of the riddle at the same time and together come up with a full answer, which would inadvertadly defeat the bad guy and stop Lois from finding out Superman’s true identitiy.

cover theme game:

this is a guess cause I have no clue who “The Flying Tiger” is, and everyone else has had much better guesses, but:

All the Non-Superheroes on the covers would later become different bad guys?

“Even incineration isn’t definitive. Len Wein had Spider-Man throw his clone into an incinerator in ASM #151, and the clone *still* managed to survive.

And in an issue of Starman, Jack Knight managed to bounce back from being blown up.”

Mind you, none of those guys ever had the misfortune of being ex-JLI – the ultimate point of no return :(

My thing about “dead means dead” is this: If a comic company is going to be definitive about “no resurrections”–and they should, as death is simply too powerful an emotional experience to “take back” (one of my most awkward conversations was a discussion that from a purely literary standpoint, setting aside the religious implications, Jesus should have stayed dead…I really should never admit that one, right?)–

…deep breath…if a comic company is going to be definitive about “no resurrections”, they should also use deaths far more sparingly. For example, Magneto shouldn’t have been resurrected by Claremont with the whole silly “no, it was actually Xorn pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn” excuse. But that’s because when Morrison walked into the X-Offices saying, “I want to kill Magneto!”, they should have said, “No, he’s too important of a character. Come up with a good Magneto storyline that doesn’t involve killing him off–you’re an excellent writer, you can do it.” Instead, they said, “Sure! And if it doesn’t work, we can always bring him back again!”

The problem isn’t cheap resurrections. It’s cheap deaths.

I’m with Seavey.

It’s been awhile since this happened so I can’t link to anything relevant, but I heard that senior editorial did ask Morrison not to kill Magneto at the end of his run, since they had plans for the character. Morrison just killed him anyway and managed to get the issue into print before senior editorial noticed, which lead directly to the panicked and super-awkward Xorn retcons. I’m not sure how much truth there is to this, tho I think there’s an Urban Legend on this site that documents how Keith Giffen destroyed Earth in Legion of Super-Heroes because editorial wasn’t paying much attention to what he was doing….

See, I was under the impression that the last months of Morrison’s run on New X-men were after he’d gone over to DC. He’d finished the scripts ahead of time before he signed.

His exclusive was announced in July 2003. The July 2003 issue of NXM (not taking into account slipped shipping) would’ve been #140, the second part of Murder at the Mansion and ten issues before Magneto’s death. I doubt that he went exclusively DC as soon as he was signed, but I can’t see them being so behind as to not ask for story changes, especially considering some of the other late books Marvel’s put out.

Ted, like Barry and Hal, is a better character dead than he was alive…

Them’s fightin’ words.

No more guesses? What is the answer, then?

Ted, like Barry and Hal, is a better character dead than he was alive…

Barry I could possibly see a case for.

Hal and Ted, though, I totally disagree (particularly Ted).

No more guesses? What is the answer, then?

After two weeks of no answers, I bring it over to the Comics Should Be Good messageboard on CBR!

Pfft! Like we read that. Here’s to putting the answers in a future Snark Free Corner!

Never gonna happen!

If no one ever figures them out, they’ll just have to go unsolved!

For the cover theme game: All of the covers feature a character known by a nickname. Rhodey, Mac, and Flash.

The thing is, in the forum, Brian posted an alternate comic, and it was just Spider-Man on the cover.

Yeah, because people kept guessing based on the Green Goblin, and I wanted to take him out of the equation, especially since I do not think it really counts as being on the cover if it is a character’s shadow! :)

I’m not sure how to phrase it, which means it’s probably wrong, but Spider-Man, Scorpion, and Jim Rhodes have all worn alien costumes. Spider-Man had the symbiote which Mac Gargan now wears, and Rhodes had a costume from Secret Wars which later came to life *and* a random alien armor.

There ya go! They all wore alien symbiotes! Yer on a roll, Sean!

I’m an expert at getting paid to sit at my desk for eight hours while the tech people attempt to fix their various problems so that I can do the job I’m being paid for.

In the meantime … what the hell do Clark Kent, Nightwing, and the Atom Smasher have in common??

In the meantime … what the hell do Clark Kent, Nightwing, and the Atom Smasher have in common??

That IS the question, isn’t it? ;)

Yeah, okay…this one was connected…but just another connection of note, however…
All three title characters have worn a red and yellow/gold costume.

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