Comic Book Resources

A Soap Opera crossover?

As someone who started to watch soaps in 1997 and grew to hate them. The scandalous goings-on of soap operas and the epic wonder of super-hero comics do not mesh well in a 'straight' crossover. (I am speaking of course of past comics where the heroes were actually HEROES). Besides the super-heroes are going to make the soap opera characters more morally weak than ever.

Um, Brad, did you just use asterisks three separate times without remembering to add the text to which they're supposed to be referring?

Anyway ... yeah, I agree, Morrison rescued a wishy-washy arc by the end. (Although actually I thought it started to pick up with the third ish!) As for "52," I'm one of the guys who's loving it — especially the Black Adam and Question & Renee arcs. Ralph's story just took some effective dramatic turns too. Steel makes a fine foil for Luthor, Supes or no Supes. And hey, where else can you find Animal Man and Lobo back in action?

Not every issue's a homerun, of course, but overall I'm well sold on it. So is my next-door neighbor, who is otherwise a long-lapsed comic fan. (I'm letting him read my copies, which he eagerly seeks out at this point.) FYI: Recently I scoured my comic shop in Chicago for a third friend who was interested in picking it up mid-way, and they had every issue except for the Batwoman debut. So it can be done. I bet eBay's your cheapest bet though. Good luck!

p.s. umm, never mind about the asterisks bit. somehow i couldn't see the last few graphs of your post before, but now the whole thing shows up. go figure.

I do a lot of editing after I post, so you weren't seeing things, Rebis. As far as the soap opera/superhero crossover, this was so tongue in cheek that the Marvel characters didn't suffer by comparison. Or the Guiding Light ones. I kind of don't understand your point, Tricia, although all of the glaring similarities I see between superhero serials and soaps may be blinding me. Also, this back-up strip was fun because it had the lamest incarnation of the Sinister 6 ever! Although there were only five of them. I mean, they had Boomerang and Hydroman! Lame!

I take issue with the notion that some of your thoughts about comics don't deserve posts. That's a value judgement on objects of neutral value. What you're saying, to me, is that the Outsiders are somehow worth less as an object of consideration than, say, the Justice League - both teams which have been heavily influenced by the whole Batman mythology - on an inherent level. When, really, it's popular consensus, among other things, that leaves us considering the JLA superior to the Outsiders. We've all read both and weighed each and come to the conclusion that the Outsiders are pretty sucky and the JLA can at times be pretty sweet. But, you know, sometimes I was completely unable to stomache the JLA because, at times, it's a pretty sucky book too.

Derrida said, at one point, when considering the text consider nothing but the text. In other words, a thought, a post, an opinion about the Outsiders has as much inherent value about any non-"third string" team of people in capes making speaches and punching things. They're of equal value, it's what's done with them that matters. I'd much rather read a great post about the awful Outsiders than yet another mediocre post about the over-exposed JLA, metaphorically speaking, because to me, novelty has value all its own.

(And here's where I'd get sidetracked and go off on a tangent about the "Big 3" and why this whole concept of "A-listers" and "C-listers" is completely wrongheaded. And not only is every character someone's favorite but every character is *potentially* someone's favorite. But, meh.)

Which is to say, I've been hoping to wait out Morrison's run on Batman and then somehow read it all in one sitting. It's a strategy that's paid off with Seven Soldiers and reveals a frightening grasp of craft and technique with New X-Men or Doom Patrol. But I read those last two piecemeal beforehand. And that somewhat spoiled the sense of pacing and structure you get from the whole ball of wax when I knew the surprises in advance. I don't know if it'll work with Batman but it sounds like I have some interesting reading ahead of me. As I'll trust the opinion of anyone who recognizes the sheer brilliance of a giant green rubbersuit monster with absolutely no genitals who just happens to wear purple stretchy underpants. I mean, Wortham forbid! Someone might be offended by the Ken doll look...

I thought the latest Morrison Batman run pretty much sucked, to be honest. Apart from the pop art bit, the story was just shoulder shruggingly "so-what" and the ending of the final issue didn't really make much sense. Again.

Don't get me started on 52. The obsession with having to kill off characters roughly associated with the 90s is really starting to become monotonous and boring.

sigh...let's set the clocks.....okay, give it about....yeah, three weeks....then we'll whack Ambush Bug.

And then Mr Didio, I am going to HUNT YOU DOWN AND MAKE YOU CRY.

Dammit...now you got me off on my Didio thing again. This probably won't end well

Samoe Joe = 100 Bullets

There are exactly two comics coming out now that I'd argue are optimally read in single issue rather than TPB format. They are NextWave and 52. So much of what makes 52 such fun is getting the story in convenient little doses every week, and looking forward to next week's. It's a book that uses the pamphlet format really, really well. 52 isn't great storytelling in and of itself and I don't see it aging well in collected form. Even if you go back to old 52 issues, I think it'll be far easier to appreciate the grand experiment in format that it is if you pick up the singles.

(Admittedly, reading it in singles is going to be much pricier. I got into it a couple weeks ago after certain choice cameos and recs from friends, and I dropped something like $60 on getting all the back issues.)

Samoa Joe = Awesome.

You made the right call picking up the Samoa Joe DVD. Unfortunately my Wal*Mart doesn't get the TNA DVDs so I got the Hogan set with bonus disc. Disc one is fine (WWWF and AWA up to Wrestlemania III) and the bonus disc has a nice heel Hogan vs Tito Santana match from MSG and a handicap match from the AWA tv show. After that I've literally been falling asleep watching the set as the Hogan "formula" set in. Watching the early stuff (including a Hogan/Terry Funk SNME match) you can see how he got to be so popular, but man did he get lazy after WMIII.

However if you're suffering from insomnia, May I suggest Disc 2. Not even a crazy Randy Savage as the MegaPowers colapse will keep you awake.

Completely agreed with Lynxara on 52 and Nextwave. They're really just designed to be read in monthly installments. The novelty of treating each issue as a single text! I won't comment on *every* other comic out there as I don't read them all. But of the ones I know only those by a writer with Morrison's knack for threading things through his story really bear serious consideration as single volume. The rest fall somewhere in the gap of not being good enough, for me, in and of themselves and somehow failing to collapse into a coherent whole. For me, of course.

52 is interesting because it's a rarity of a weekly comic designed to be read in weekly installments. It's just too rushed and too slaped together to meet that grinding schedule to really hang together - the cracks are already showing as their year long plan has to be shifted and adapted.

There's a common denomenator there, though, and that's Morrison who's fingerprints are all over the thing. It's one big puzzle, after all, dense with clues and symbols and meaning. And, I'm thinking some things hidden in plain sight (Like, maybe, and I'm just tossing this out there. But rather than "52" could it be "5" and "2"? 2 I get because there's been some mutterings about that Earth-2 might be coming back. Havne't figured out what the other half of that symbol could be but, I mean, look at the logo of New X-Men when Morrison was writing it and tell me that's not the sort of thing he loves to toss out there.). And, of course, those parts and areas I can identify as being "Morrisony" tend to be the better written bits. It's a book by commitee after all. You know, the bits not trampling all over people's treasured memories. Except for maybe Skeets. An evil helper droid just might have come from the same wonderfully warped place that gives us, say, Flex Mentallo (Which is really the same repurposing of an old trope just don't with, well, style. So...I agree and disagree with Paperghost. I don't care what my little creator monkies do for me as they bang away on their typewriters, I care that they do it well.).

Morrison's the only Brit with a seat at that table. And he's the only one who cut his teeth on short, weekly installments of a story published in anthology format - a format much more popular in the UK than where I'm from (And interesting reading in its own right. I always love anthologies. Sure, you get some clunkers mixed in but you also get some real hidden gems that you'd never have sought out on your own.). It would seem to give him much greater familiarity with the idea of only getting a few short pages every week and having to do something with it. I mean, there's natural talent and all that but learned skills and experience have to factor in somewhere.

I'd really like to say more but 52 installments of a book at the price of a monthly comment has priced me right out of the market. Just can't afford it compared with a format like the TPB even though it's missing out on going to the theater and settling for popping in a DVD. But, I have friends and we can borrow and trade from one another and maybe we can each only afford a copy a month and maybe some of us concentrate on trades and let the monthly readers browse through our collections if they help us keep current and by this point I'm sure I've perked up the ears of people worried about copyrights and such. But, don't worry. I'd buy in if I had the money. But I don't, so I can't. What I do have is time. And I always try and take the time to stoke the fires every now and then so my little interest survives.

Nextwave, too, is really interesting and awesome on a variety of levels. But, common denomanator - it too, is writen by a Brittish person. It seems like a lot of my favorite writers are Brittish. Who, no doubt, are familiar with 2000AD and the rest. And whether it's something about their styles that I like. Or if it's my love of anthologies and their ability to craft a really good story in the space they have. And which one of those draws me back to them time and again.

Samoa Joe's DC equivilent? Oh, I dunno, how about the Flash? As in "... in the pan?"

Ohh, snap!

"(Like, maybe, and I’m just tossing this out there. But rather than “52″ could it be “5″ and “2″? 2 I get because there’s been some mutterings about that Earth-2 might be coming back."

My theory on this was that the 2 was for Earth-2, and the 5 represented the five Earths that made up the "final" (lol) Earth seen at the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths.

I'm probably hopelessly wrong though. 52 is probably the amount of JLI characters that will die during the course of the story. When they run out of JLI'ers, they'll just bring some back to life and kill them again. And again. And again...

I'm the only Joe here from now on.

You know, Paperghost, that would never have occured to me.

I'd been looking in the story, when I could of course, for contextual clues. But step out of that box and into the wider scope of the DCU's particularly convoluted history and, yeah, that's definitely possible. The answer then becomes not "52" or "fifty two" but the five surviving earths of the multiverse which somehow became one during Crisis on Infinite Earths instead somehow becoming split during Infinite Crisis. Five becoming two or "5 to 2". String that together quickly through a voice synthesizer and you might just get, say, the Red Tornado's unheeded warning.

I don't know if it's right or wrong, of course, but the fun of reading along in a series like 52, to me if no one else, is trying to puzzle things out. It's sprinkled with clues and easter eggs after all. The text, the book is what it is. It's what you do with it, the fun you make for yourself that gives it any sort of value. Cover price is sunk cost, you're not getting that back. So you can either trade it somehow or find some way of amusing yourself with it. Your opinion is equally valid as anyone else's and don't let anyone tell you differently.

Which is to say that don't get so wrapped up in what might be. I know I'm not. I'm absolutely convinced that they're going to do the, to me, unthinkable of killing off the Question. And replacing him with freaking Montoya! Yet another character with gleaming promise tossed into the ash heap of history. I'm not talking about Vic here (Although, man, that's one of the great ones. A real Ditko character. Yet one that really didn't come into his own until the O'Neil series. Now that was my kind of book. Heck, forget the actual comics, what about the version of Question on Justice League Unlimited? I don't care if you can't find anything to do with him right now but leave him on the shelf for future generations, if nothing else, please. The stories are all imaginary, and I'll have my ratty old copies, of course, but I want the books yet to be. The stories I write in my head just don't match up to the ones I find on the page.) I'm talking about Montoya. Who's a great character and easily one of the best additions, in my opinion, to the Batman mythos in a while. But she works as a cop not a cape. Not everyone has to be special, there's motiff and there's counter-motiff, and a normal human in the fantasy world where Superman and Batman rub shoulders is an interesting character in its own right. But I fear not what'll happen to her when she becomes the Question (Or Question Jr. Or the Answer. Madam Querry. Or some other sidekick.) it's what's going to happen to her once they actually bring Vic back. Because you know a character with that kind of history isn't staying dead for long. And if Montoya's in his shoes then the easiest way of getting her out of them is to shuffle her off the stage. There was another Dr. Midnight between the first one and the current one. She was a woman. A black woman. And I'm only saying this as it made her somehow unique and interesting in a world of white faces. But how many people remember her now? She was in the way of bringing back the old Doctor and placing him in a new suit, after all. And I can't even remember but I'm sure she's in a refridgerator somewhere, you know?

If the cut must be made then pray that the headsman cuts well, if nothing else, because that's the only mercy left.

So I read the story with that queasy sensation of hope and dread I like to call expectation. And if I wanted to I could get upset, sure, but, eh, it's just a comic book and it wouldn't be a surprise if everything I wanted happened all the time. And I'm having my own fun with it. It's a mystery after all. And I don't like to turn to the end of the book and find out the end too soon. But, then, I don't care so much about the whodunnit so much as the how it was done, right? And that takes a while so I'm enjoying the ride so far.

If Damian gets to go free, surely Leslie Thompkins is allowed back in the country?

"being fathered by Rob Liefeld via time travel."

Man, that is... evil.

"The answer then becomes not “52″ or “fifty two” but the five surviving earths of the multiverse which somehow became one during Crisis on Infinite Earths instead somehow becoming split during Infinite Crisis. Five becoming two or “5 to 2″. String that together quickly through a voice synthesizer and you might just get, say, the Red Tornado’s unheeded warning."

...and I *think* (though I may be wrong) that there are five new Monitors. Five....watching over two Earths (which was strongly hinted at in the rehashed Infinite Crisis hardcover thingy).

Hmmm...okay, if I'm right, I demand my prize be that I get put in charge of DC Comics for a year and subject Dan Didio to the horror of every single DC comic being turned into a JLI reprint.

That'll show him. Bwa-ha-ha....

* * S P O I L E R * *

"Except for maybe Skeets. An evil helper droid just might have come from the same wonderfully warped place that gives us, say, Flex Mentallo."

Yes. I read that the Skeets twist was indeed Morrison's idea. (I read it on the weekly Q&As on Newsarama, either with Wacker or his replacement, I don't recall. It was probably the edition right after the big reveal.) It's my favorite twist of the series so far, too. It's something that Wacker had referred to in early interviews, when 52 was just getting started. He'd said that one day, a few weeks into the writing (or perhaps just the mapping out?) of the thing, Morrison just tossed out to everyone, "What if Skeets were evil?" And they all sat there, dumbfounded, trying to figure out what that might mean and why it wouldn't work, except it DID work, so they quickly decided to run with it.

Morrison truly is the God of Most Comics.

And the mysteries to 52 are indeed part of the fun — but rather than puzzle over them endlessly (I spent waaaay to much time trying to figure out Identity Crisis (and years before that, Twin Peaks), and look where that got me! It's hard to trust that storytellers can really deliver a reasonable and satisfying solution after dismal disappointing failures like that), I have just been enjoying the weekly doses ... with the intention of re-reading them at about the halfway mark to look for things that suddenly pop out. Of course, that time is nigh! So I'd better get cracking.

"Five to two" ... interesting theory!

I've read a few scattered issues of 52, and I can't say that I've found any fun in it, really. The art is usually dreadful (and at best passable). But I suppose that's the best weekly can be. But the story really seems like ten pounds of who-gives-a-shit in a seven pound bag. I can find no reason to care about any of the characters, er, properties within.