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That's because he's actually getting paid real money. And remember, he's not the showrunner, he's got more experienced guys like Tim Kring and Bryan Fuller supervising him.

Then again, the episodes he wrote haven't been all that hot.

have't been paying attention to when he's had input and when he hasn't but 'heroes' sucked until episode 4-ish - hiro cheating, autopsy claire, being inside the painters head etc.

it's more than a little derivative and predictable but just about worthwhile viewing. as for loeb's books they seem to get a bad rap i never noticed before...he is amazingly sucessful as a writer for comics, though success doesn't equal talent - i think he's pretty good. those batman books with tim sale rock, as did the supergirl arc of superman/batman

i also think it's pretty easy to make that kind of declaration, but first: consider how prolific the guy is. his sheer output is extraordinary, let alone the sometimes amazing stuff he comes up with. although i do blame him for not reining in 'smallville' while he had the chance. after all he's one of US.

It seems to me that Loeb is ALWAYS better when he's got Tim Sale working with him, which leads me to believe that he's fine when he's got another voice steering him along.

It's when he's got total freedom that we get total dreck.

I've probably only see no more than two minutes of actual footage from this show, but I can tell I'd hate it.

That's hardly a compliment...

Best,
Hunter (Pedro Bouça)

Maybe I just haven't read the right Loeb stuff. I read and enjoyed The Long Halloween. It wasn't the best book ever written, but it was fun. I've also read and loved Superman for All Seasons. I'm not a big Superman reader, but I enjoyed the humility with which Loeb/Sale granted the character. I wasn't the biggest fan of Hush but I couldn't tell whether that was the fault of Loeb or Lee (his art brings back memories of youthful indiscretion - the kind of indiscretion that made me think that McFarlane, Lee, and Liefeld were like unto gods when they split from Marvel - and those memories are always painful).

I've never understood the Loeb hatred either. He's no Alan Moore, but he's definitely not a bad writer.

What about Loeb's first comics work? That Challengers mini he did with a young Tim Sale? That was good stuff.

I actually prefer most of his comics stuff to what I've seen on Heroes (and I've watched every episode). Heroes is slow and tedius and without the Hiro character, almost unwatchable. Loeb's comics are fun, mostly.

The people here don't like Jeph Loeb.

There are two reasons for this:

(1) Failure to understand the comics medium even a teensy little bit.

(2) Crack.

Challengers of the Unknown was VERY good. Probably the best thing Loeb has written. And you'll notice I never said Loeb was bad (although he's not great), just that it's interesting that Heroes is better (ignore those people who don't like it). Loeb CAN be entertaining, but as some others here have pointed out, it seems like he needs to be reined in a bit. Loeb is the kind of writer who needs an editor, and we know how THAT'S working out in comics these days.

I'm in total agreement...the thing that's always perplexed me about Comics Should Be Good, which is my absolute favouritest blog in the world, is the mad on which its authors have toward Jeph Loeb. I loved Long Halloween and think it's one of the best Batman stories ever. I thought Hush was decent for a monthly Batman (there's been better, but there's been much, much worse). I've enjoyed all the collaborations with Tim Sale. About the only thing I've had against him was the upsetting of the apple cart around Byrne's Krypton in the Superman monthly but that's a regular sport now at DC. I think Jeph Loeb is to the past ten years what Mike W Barr was to DC in the early 80s: when he was on he makes great Batman stories, when he's not he at least entertains me enough to read him, which is more than I can say for a lot.

I can understand why Identity Crisis is reviled (though I liked it...though I am disquieted by recent revelations of the climate around editorial when it came out). I get why Dan DiDio is hated. But Jeph Loeb as punching bag...no, that still puzzles me.

I really like Jeph Loeb, I think he has a good sense of plotting and character development, plus his dialogue is pretty decent. He can't pull off cliffhangers or twist endings well, but that's a minor complaint. Like someone else said, he is no Alan Moore, but I think he is a good writer in his own right. Then again, I also like Devin Grayson and Judd Winick. Oh well, to each their own I suppose.

Also, is Heroes really as good as the hype? I haven't had a chance to check it out, so I figured it would be something I'd catch during reruns or I'd borrow someone's DVDs.

what is being missed here is that heroes really isn't that great. just because there are superheroes on tv doesn't mean that it is good. if it were only in comic form, it would only have a lukewarm following. it just a little cliched for me.

I agree that the stuff Loeb has written with Tim Sale, for me, is the only stuff I've liked from him. But I don't even know about that anymore. I got the Catwoman: When in Rome hardcover a few months ago and quit reading after issue three. It's kind of a bummer too, because I really like Tim Sale and he rarely works with anyone besides Loeb.

"(1) Failure to understand the comics medium even a teensy little bit."

When you talk in this vitriolic, hyperbolic nerd-speak, it makes it impossible for me to give your arguments any sort of consideration or validity.

That goes for everyone.

The "mad on" is probably because, at his best, he is a bland vehicle for Tim Sale to draw beautifully. At his next best, he's a writer of bland, average superhero crap, and the rest of the time he's worse.

I've never enjoyed a Jeph Loeb comic very much to my memory--not my thing. But Heroes is pretty goddam awful.

Never seen Heroes, but I believe you.

I liked the Long Halloween, but everything else I've read by that man is just offensively bad.

But then I'm from the UK, where we have higher standards when it comes to comic book writing.

The people here don’t like Jeph Loeb.

There are two reasons for this:

(1) Failure to understand the comics medium even a teensy little bit.

(2) Crack.

It's not crack. It's LSD. I mean, no it isn't.

And I liked a Loeb comic, once. It was Batman/Spirit. I blame Darwyn Cooke.

But normally, Loeb comics make my eyes want to explode in protest. And I like my eyes, even if they are near-sighted.

I'm from The Netherlands so I've never even seen a second of 'Heroes' since it's not beig aired (yet) over here. I can tell you I'm already pretty tired of the nerd-gushing over it though.

The Long Halloween and Dark Victory were fun reads.

we need a legitamite blog entry that explains why loeb is despised so because it seems as though mst of the readers like him and the 'makes my eyes wanna explode' and 'writes superhero crap' seem like really tenuous arguments

Superman/Batman is one of the worst, most senseless comics of the last five years(the first arc fell apart completely by the end, the second one was based around an angsty but otherwise personality-less plot device masking as a character, and once you get past the second arc it becomes a complete and shameless vanity project. The whole thing was full of ham-fisted narration).

His idea of telling a good story is by stuffing as many guest stars as he can. He's basically the Michael Bay of comics.

I think he occasionally has good ideas and it takes someone like Sale to make something out of them. I can't think of one sustained project he did without Sale (including Hush, which was basically an excuse for Jim Lee to draw everything in the Bat-verse without any of it having any sort of meaning) that I enjoyed, going all the way back to his work on X-Force.

Right now he's one of two or three guys who seem on track to become editor-in-chief at Marvel and it scares the crap out of me (Alonso would scare me more though).

Why Alonso? He seemed to be the guy behind a lot of what went right with Marvel.

fanboy d, I feel your pain! Here I break down why the first trade of Superman/Batman is no good. And, because I care and because Loeb, again, isn't ALL bad, here is a link to a look at his first comics work, Challengers of the Unknown. Which is good.

It's a personal taste thing as opposed to a critical taste thing. I just don't think he's going to give me the sort of comics I want out of Marvel.

I think he'd probably be good for the industry and bring in a lot of new readers, but he personally wouldn't be good for me.

I get the impression he's not a fan of a lot of the Marvel stuff I am a fan of and vice versa.

Honestly, I get the impression that he's not much of a fan of superheroes at all.

As for the things he's actually had a hand in (JMS on ASM, Jenkins/Millar/Hudlin on Spidey, Hudlin on BP, X-statix, a lot of the other Marvel Knights titles, etc), weren't for me.

And his comments always seem to rub me the wrong way.

I think it comes down to the fact that I can appreciate what he wants to do, but it's not what I want to see, if that makes any sense.

"The “mad on” is probably because, at his best, he is a bland vehicle for Tim Sale to draw beautifully. At his next best, he’s a writer of bland, average superhero crap, and the rest of the time he’s worse."

That's not far off. I'm convinced that if an average artists had drawn his Tim Sale stuff then people wouldn't thing they were nearly as well written.

Nothing else I can think of could be called anything above average.

As pointed out earlier the big exception is Challengers of the Unknown which is great.