Comments on: Fresh Looks at Classics http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/ Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good! Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:44:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: DanCJ http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-52682 DanCJ Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:00:10 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-52682 Hmm... I'm not sure something has to be old to be a classic, but maybe we need the hindsight of age to be sure something qualifies. Maybe New Frontier will be less well received in 10 years time than it is now Hmm… I’m not sure something has to be old to be a classic, but maybe we need the hindsight of age to be sure something qualifies. Maybe New Frontier will be less well received in 10 years time than it is now

]]> By: Mantistotem http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-52626 Mantistotem Thu, 15 Feb 2007 05:44:17 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-52626 I think that 'standing the test of time' is more important than 'nearly universal acclaim'. Acclaim can be generated by fads and be gone in a year (or less). But if a work can still generate buzz fifteen years later, then I would have to say that it reflects quality. But always remember boys and girls; just because something is called a Classic doesn't mean you have to like it or enjoy it! And John, I have to agree with you about 'Slither' :) I think that ‘standing the test of time’ is more important than ‘nearly universal acclaim’. Acclaim can be generated by fads and be gone in a year (or less). But if a work can still generate buzz fifteen years later, then I would have to say that it reflects quality.

But always remember boys and girls; just because something is called a Classic doesn’t mean you have to like it or enjoy it!

And John, I have to agree with you about ‘Slither’ :)

]]> By: John Seavey http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-52482 John Seavey Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:20:35 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-52482 Very true--I went and looked up the same definition you used, and if you were using #1 ("Of the first or highest quality, class, or rank"), and I was using #12 ("an author or a literary work of the first rank, esp. one of demonstrably enduring quality") or #7 ("of enduring interest, quality, or style"), we would definitely be talking at cross-purposes. Which is always where the trouble starts, isn't it? But I still would say that ten years is a good rule of thumb to give something before calling it a classic, myself...I'd be wary even of calling 'Transmetropolitan' a classic just yet, even though I feel it's destined to be one ("destined to be a classic", another great meaningless hype term. I think Stan Lee might have copyrighted that one.) So ask me again about 'New Frontier' in 2010. :) Very true–I went and looked up the same definition you used, and if you were using #1 (“Of the first or highest quality, class, or rank”), and I was using #12 (“an author or a literary work of the first rank, esp. one of demonstrably enduring quality”) or #7 (“of enduring interest, quality, or style”), we would definitely be talking at cross-purposes. Which is always where the trouble starts, isn’t it?

But I still would say that ten years is a good rule of thumb to give something before calling it a classic, myself…I’d be wary even of calling ‘Transmetropolitan’ a classic just yet, even though I feel it’s destined to be one (“destined to be a classic”, another great meaningless hype term. I think Stan Lee might have copyrighted that one.) So ask me again about ‘New Frontier’ in 2010. :)

]]> By: Brian Cronin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-52424 Brian Cronin Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:25:24 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-52424 Classic certainly CAN have a meaning of "standing the test of time," but it doesn't have to. In fact, dictionary.com goes through SIX meanings before mentioning "standing the test of time," (granted, meanings 7 and 8 both mention it). I certainly do not begrudge folks using their definition of it, but it does not mean mine is not accurate, as well. Classic certainly CAN have a meaning of “standing the test of time,” but it doesn’t have to. In fact, dictionary.com goes through SIX meanings before mentioning “standing the test of time,” (granted, meanings 7 and 8 both mention it).

I certainly do not begrudge folks using their definition of it, but it does not mean mine is not accurate, as well.

]]> By: DanCJ http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-52257 DanCJ Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:25:46 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-52257 New Frontier probably feels more like it could be a classic because it's so retro. <blockquote>Since New Frontier’s status as a classic is debatable, how about someone give me something else to look at?</blockquote> Alan Moore's Swamp Thing The Dark Knight Returns Batman: Year One Frank Miller's Daredevil Daredevil: Born Again Walter Simonson's Thor Neil Gaiman's Sandman Grant Morrison's Animal Man Keith Giffen's Justice League (or at least the first 2/3 of that run) Denis O'Neil and Neil Adams's Batman Crisis on Infinite Earths Cerebus (from High Society to Jaka's Story) The Preacher Transmetropolitan Miracleman Watchmen V for Vendetta Marvels Astro City More personally (and therefore possibly not accurately by John Seavy's definition) Andy Hefler's The Shadow Dennis O'Neil's The Question Elektra Assassin The Golden Age New Frontier probably feels more like it could be a classic because it’s so retro.

Since New Frontier’s status as a classic is debatable, how about someone give me something else to look at?

Alan Moore’s Swamp Thing
The Dark Knight Returns
Batman: Year One
Frank Miller’s Daredevil
Daredevil: Born Again
Walter Simonson’s Thor
Neil Gaiman’s Sandman
Grant Morrison’s Animal Man
Keith Giffen’s Justice League (or at least the first 2/3 of that run)
Denis O’Neil and Neil Adams’s Batman
Crisis on Infinite Earths
Cerebus (from High Society to Jaka’s Story)
The Preacher
Transmetropolitan
Miracleman
Watchmen
V for Vendetta
Marvels
Astro City

More personally (and therefore possibly not accurately by John Seavy’s definition)
Andy Hefler’s The Shadow
Dennis O’Neil’s The Question
Elektra Assassin
The Golden Age

]]> By: Sean http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-52183 Sean Wed, 14 Feb 2007 03:43:17 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-52183 Since New Frontier's status as a classic is debatable, how about someone give me something else to look at? Of the examples mentioned so far in the comments, I have not read any Swamp Thing or Sandman. And most of the others I have only just read within the past 3 years. Since New Frontier’s status as a classic is debatable, how about someone give me something else to look at?

Of the examples mentioned so far in the comments, I have not read any Swamp Thing or Sandman. And most of the others I have only just read within the past 3 years.

]]> By: John Seavey http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-52155 John Seavey Wed, 14 Feb 2007 00:50:38 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-52155 I don't know if I'd agree that the term "classic" is subjective so much as frequently misused. I'd say something that is a classic is something that has won universal acclaim (or near-universal; you can always find people who will argue against the consensus opinion) and has withstood the test of time. So, for example, 'Citizen Kane' is a classic movie, while something recent (like, say, 'Slither', which I consider to be the best horror movie of the last decade) is not, no matter how good I think it is. Keep in mind, when I say that I don't think that 'New Frontier' is a "classic", this isn't to say that I think it's bad. Far from it, I've got no opinion one way or another on its quality. I haven't read it yet. But it fails both tests; it hasn't won universal acclaim (as I mentioned, the only place I really see it pimped is this blog) and it hasn't withstood the test of time (because it's a relatively recent release.) Obviously, time can and possibly will change both of those things, and when/if it does, good for it. This is not (and I want to stress, not) a hate on 'New Frontier'. I have plenty of things I love to death (Karl and Barbara Kesel's run on 'Hawk and Dove') that I couldn't honestly call classic. (Even though it should be.) And "instant classic" is, in my humble opinion, a meaningless term of hype. It's a marketing term for "really good", and nothing more. To me, the essential part of "classic" is that whole "withstanding the test of time" thing; after all, how many people wanted to call 'The Matrix' an "instant classic" only to see 'The Matrix Reloaded'? :) I don’t know if I’d agree that the term “classic” is subjective so much as frequently misused. I’d say something that is a classic is something that has won universal acclaim (or near-universal; you can always find people who will argue against the consensus opinion) and has withstood the test of time.

So, for example, ‘Citizen Kane’ is a classic movie, while something recent (like, say, ‘Slither’, which I consider to be the best horror movie of the last decade) is not, no matter how good I think it is.

Keep in mind, when I say that I don’t think that ‘New Frontier’ is a “classic”, this isn’t to say that I think it’s bad. Far from it, I’ve got no opinion one way or another on its quality. I haven’t read it yet. But it fails both tests; it hasn’t won universal acclaim (as I mentioned, the only place I really see it pimped is this blog) and it hasn’t withstood the test of time (because it’s a relatively recent release.) Obviously, time can and possibly will change both of those things, and when/if it does, good for it. This is not (and I want to stress, not) a hate on ‘New Frontier’. I have plenty of things I love to death (Karl and Barbara Kesel’s run on ‘Hawk and Dove’) that I couldn’t honestly call classic. (Even though it should be.)

And “instant classic” is, in my humble opinion, a meaningless term of hype. It’s a marketing term for “really good”, and nothing more. To me, the essential part of “classic” is that whole “withstanding the test of time” thing; after all, how many people wanted to call ‘The Matrix’ an “instant classic” only to see ‘The Matrix Reloaded’? :)

]]> By: Mantistotem http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-52038 Mantistotem Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:17:20 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-52038 'Classic' is a tricky term. It's rather subjective. To me, in regards to comics, it means a story that I will remember and enjoy even years after my first time reading it. Like 'Dark Knight Returns' or the original coming of Galactus story. But different people enjoy different things. While I can marvel at the storytelling craft of 'Watchmen', I never really enjoyed the story. So for me, it's not a 'classic'. Let me stress the "for me" part of that statement. The term 'instant classic' works for me too. There are some stories that you enjoy so much the first time, that you just know that you're going to revisit them again and again. If only we had more of those... ‘Classic’ is a tricky term. It’s rather subjective. To me, in regards to comics, it means a story that I will remember and enjoy even years after my first time reading it. Like ‘Dark Knight Returns’ or the original coming of Galactus story.

But different people enjoy different things. While I can marvel at the storytelling craft of ‘Watchmen’, I never really enjoyed the story. So for me, it’s not a ‘classic’. Let me stress the “for me” part of that statement.

The term ‘instant classic’ works for me too. There are some stories that you enjoy so much the first time, that you just know that you’re going to revisit them again and again. If only we had more of those…

]]> By: DanCJ http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-51997 DanCJ Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:20:14 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-51997 New Frontier was okay. The art was quite nice and the story was decent enough, but I really can't see why it gets quite so much love - unless it's pure nostalgia at work New Frontier was okay. The art was quite nice and the story was decent enough, but I really can’t see why it gets quite so much love – unless it’s pure nostalgia at work

]]> By: Brian Cronin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-51945 Brian Cronin Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:06:37 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-51945 "Instant clasic" works for me! “Instant clasic” works for me!

]]> By: Bob Haney Prime http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-51885 Bob Haney Prime Tue, 13 Feb 2007 02:26:59 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-51885 Classic? Ehhhhhh Okay. (I'm so old.) Classic? Ehhhhhh

Okay.

(I’m so old.)

]]> By: L.P. Mandrake http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-51874 L.P. Mandrake Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:14:56 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-51874 New Frontier is my second favorite story in comics (Flex Mentallo is tops in my book) so I guess I would consider it an "instant classic." It is such an exuberant tale and, in so many ways, really conveys everything that is great about superhero comics. New Frontier is my second favorite story in comics (Flex Mentallo is tops in my book) so I guess I would consider it an “instant classic.” It is such an exuberant tale and, in so many ways, really conveys everything that is great about superhero comics.

]]> By: John Seavey http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-51867 John Seavey Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:01:07 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-51867 That's more or less what I was going to say, Greg, with the additional caveat that I'd never heard of 'New Frontier' until I started reading this blog. I'm not saying it's not a classic, but it's not out there getting referenced as one in the same way that, say, 'Sandman' or 'Dark Knight Returns' or 'Bone' is. When you say, "I envy someone getting their first chance to read a classic comic," I flash to Alan Moore's 'Swamp Thing' run, or perhaps 'Watchmen' or 'V for Vendetta'. 'New Frontier' just doesn't spring to mind. That’s more or less what I was going to say, Greg, with the additional caveat that I’d never heard of ‘New Frontier’ until I started reading this blog. I’m not saying it’s not a classic, but it’s not out there getting referenced as one in the same way that, say, ‘Sandman’ or ‘Dark Knight Returns’ or ‘Bone’ is.

When you say, “I envy someone getting their first chance to read a classic comic,” I flash to Alan Moore’s ‘Swamp Thing’ run, or perhaps ‘Watchmen’ or ‘V for Vendetta’. ‘New Frontier’ just doesn’t spring to mind.

]]> By: Greg Hatcher http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-51843 Greg Hatcher Mon, 12 Feb 2007 23:07:31 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-51843 This is the part where I shake my walking stick at all you whippersnappers and say it's not a "fresh look at a classic" if said classic is less than five years old. I love the book too, but I think a little time has to pass before we start throwing words like 'classic' around. This is the part where I shake my walking stick at all you whippersnappers and say it’s not a “fresh look at a classic” if said classic is less than five years old. I love the book too, but I think a little time has to pass before we start throwing words like ‘classic’ around.

]]> By: Dave http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-51834 Dave Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:47:52 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-51834 I just can't bring myself to care about Hal Jordan. Ever. I enjoyed a lot of other material in New Frontier, especially the Martian Manhunter segments, but the relentless focus on Hal Jordan just utterly killed the story for me. I stopped reading halfway through the fifth issue because I was unable to bring myself to care what happened anymore. I just can’t bring myself to care about Hal Jordan. Ever.

I enjoyed a lot of other material in New Frontier, especially the Martian Manhunter segments, but the relentless focus on Hal Jordan just utterly killed the story for me. I stopped reading halfway through the fifth issue because I was unable to bring myself to care what happened anymore.

]]> By: D.B. http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-51826 D.B. Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:01:50 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-51826 yeah I don't like the direction they've been going in with the new Flash. Feels like they've been messing up there the past 2 years. I just have never been a fan of Quicksilver. I could never stand him. yeah I don’t like the direction they’ve been going in with the new Flash. Feels like they’ve been messing up there the past 2 years.

I just have never been a fan of Quicksilver. I could never stand him.

]]> By: Mike Loughlin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-51798 Mike Loughlin Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:33:47 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-51798 Fanboy D- Have you read X-Factor (current version)? Quicksilver's personality, powers, and motives have been turned around (as seen in several comics I haven't read, like Son of M). He's now a "villain," and a very interesting one. I finally got around to reading New Frontier a few weeks ago. It was a quality comic book, with serveral enjoyable scenes and excellent artwork. The problem I had was the pacing- the multiple story threads didn't come together as neatly as I like, and some sequences were not entirely compelling (I found the Hal Jordan scenes in the middle repetitive). I would have liked to see equal time given to the big 3, as Superman & Wonder Woman lacked presence until the end. I liked New Frontier, I just didn't like it as much as I thought I should. Fanboy D- Have you read X-Factor (current version)? Quicksilver’s personality, powers, and motives have been turned around (as seen in several comics I haven’t read, like Son of M). He’s now a “villain,” and a very interesting one.

I finally got around to reading New Frontier a few weeks ago. It was a quality comic book, with serveral enjoyable scenes and excellent artwork. The problem I had was the pacing- the multiple story threads didn’t come together as neatly as I like, and some sequences were not entirely compelling (I found the Hal Jordan scenes in the middle repetitive). I would have liked to see equal time given to the big 3, as Superman & Wonder Woman lacked presence until the end. I liked New Frontier, I just didn’t like it as much as I thought I should.

]]> By: fanboy d http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-51794 fanboy d Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:26:21 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-51794 i only really say that because to me as a character quicksilver has a place in the mu but flash seems redundant in the dcu - he can do ONE of the quadrillion things superman can do but a little bit better. and there've been about four of him. quicksilver is the rebellious son of the mutant equivalent of dr doom, always struggling to please his father but also a hero...that's not to say frontier's barry allan isn't incredible i only really say that because to me as a character quicksilver has a place in the mu but flash seems redundant in the dcu – he can do ONE of the quadrillion things superman can do but a little bit better. and there’ve been about four of him. quicksilver is the rebellious son of the mutant equivalent of dr doom, always struggling to please his father but also a hero…that’s not to say frontier’s barry allan isn’t incredible

]]> By: Ryan H http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-51789 Ryan H Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:17:18 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-51789 I think that the current stuff being done with Quicksilver is more interesting than what is being done with Flash. I think that the current stuff being done with Quicksilver is more interesting than what is being done with Flash.

]]> By: Dan K http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-51768 Dan K Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:26:13 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/02/12/fresh-looks-at-classics/#comment-51768 I liked New Frontier a lot, although I like Marvels more- despite perferring Darwyn Cooke's art to Alex Ross'. I liked New Frontier a lot, although I like Marvels more- despite perferring Darwyn Cooke’s art to Alex Ross’.

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