as far as spidey vs. firelord…

uhmmm…. yeah. ok, so firelord can withstand the vacuum of space. spidey at that time could bench 10 tons, or 20,000 lbs. ok, so the space shuttle can regularly withstand the rigors of space (but it can’t heal itself; firelord probably can). if spidey wanted to tear apart the space shuttle in new york, does anyone doubt he could? a few punches could take out any of the windows. so maybe firelord could heal, but as fast as spidey could deal out the punishment? i think not.

spidey’s also shown he can fight tough foes, like titania. pretty much everyone agrees he could take her. why? she’s strong (she presses 80 tons), tough, and hates him, so she won’t hold back anything. she’s also dumber than a 5th grader (or most 5th graders) and a lot slower than spidey. all he has to do is make fun of her so she fights stupidly, avoid her blows (easy for him with his speed and spider-sense) and keep hitting her until she falls. he does have a lot of endurance, experience, strength, and speed. the same strategy applies to firelord.

he fights firelord like he fights his other enemies; firelord eventually gets pissed until he starts fighting stupidly. of course firelord COULD defeat spidey; that’s not the point. if firelord were fighting smart, all he’d have to do is keep his distance. spidey has only his webbing at that range, while firelord is not restricted at all. if he kept shooting at spidey and moving away, there’s no way spidey could catch up to someone who regularly moves through space at incredible speeds. instead, firelord fought like an idiot, thinking that spidey was so far beneath him that it didn’t even matter. he chose to fight spidey’s way on spidey’s turf, which was an idiotic move. you don’t fight spider-man up close on the ground, unless you want to get your ass kicked. no matter how tough you are, you’re gonna go down to someone with super strength and super speed who can punch hard and fast and never get hit.

oh, if you’re faster or tougher there are exceptions. spidey can’t beat the hulk in a fair fight and would never be able to go against another galactus herald like the silver surfer, but come on, firelord??? he’s kinda the black sheep of the family as far as heralds go. and with defeat at the hands of spidey? yeah, strictly b-list from here on out…

a notable absence from the list: matter-eater lad vs. omega!

matter-eater lad, with the ability to eat anything made of matter, vs. the invincible embodiment of hate in the universe, omega. omega could not be defeated or destroyed as long as hate existed in the universe. however, he was created by the indestructible “miracle machine” which could bring thoughts into reality. brainiac 5′s solution was to have matter-eater lad eat the machine! someone who is really hungry saves the day (and the universe, whatever). maybe someday… kobayashi to the rescue! or that big american guy now…

We decided that “Underdog gives his life to save his homeland/the orphans/Ol’ Miss Johnson’s Puppy/what have you” should probably be on the list.

Think the Executioner in Simonson’s Thor, or the Swordsman circa Celestial Madonna. Or DEFINITELY # 6. Also Underdog comes back to life as a ghost, marries Plant Jesus should be # 7.

Someone mentioned the Dazzler/Galactus match. Wasn’t she teamed with Black Bolt at the time, and channel his nearly infinite-level sonic power into a laser blast, combining their power, like a person spitting adds to the force of an oncoming tidal wave?

Yes, that is the original definition of deus ex machina. In modern usage, though, most people use it to refer to any out-of-left-field plot device that is abruptly brought in at the last minute, with no previous set-up or foreshadowing, to quickly & conveniently solve the story’s crisis.

Maybe I remember the issue wrongly but I thought the programming of Amazo was set up earlier in the story.

I don’t buy it. You have to be pretty tough to survive in outer space. Not to mention all the obvious muscles he has. He’s clearly physically strong and tough.

Not that tough really. The effects of vacuums are massively exagerated in fiction.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html

“Not bird, nor plane, nor even frog, just little old me, Underdog!”

*POP* “Verily!”

Deus ex machina means god from the machine, referring to the gigantic crane device used to lower actors playing gods onto the stage.

It’s like rope-a-dope, but against a herald of Galactus.

He has a psychological fear of spiders then. Or a psychological fear of SPACE spiders.

OR he just got an entire city block knocked on him and wasn’t in the best shape.

Or he’s vulnerable to sudden, concentrated impacts in the head area, which he wouldn’t necassarilly get from having a building or two fall on him, especially since his head’s on debris-burning fire.

Or Spidey fought the Surfer back in the sixties and did alright. Spidey’s pretty tough.

I’m not sure why this hit everyone’s suspension-of-disbelief so hard. Spidey had a good day. This bothered me much less than the Juggenaut fight where Spidey wins ’cause he’s lucky. LUCKY! Spider-man! Even MY suspension of disbelief only goes so far. (Or maybe sense of what’s character-appropriate.)

But Spidey punched him a bunch of times, and he was knocked out.

Doesn’t work.

I don’t buy it. You have to be pretty tough to survive in outer space. Not to mention all the obvious muscles he has. He’s clearly physically strong and tough.

And of course, the GLA itself is Ragtag defined.

And Firelord was powerful, but weak against blunt tramaau. I’m fine with that.

BUT

I treasure the moment in the INCREDIBLES movie when Elastigirl (mom), Shrinking Violet (daughter) and Dash (son) are flying to save Mr. Incredible (dad) and Elastigril realizes that they will not be able to outmaneuver an incoming missile. She orders the completely untrained Violet to use her forcefield powers to protect them, and Violet tries and fails, tries and fails, tries and fails as the missile approaches. The plane blows up and we’re all expecting to see Violet’s force bubble encircling the family and floating on the trade winds–but no, it’s Elastigirl in the shape of a parachute, carrying the kids. Violet wasn’t up to the task, and life-threatening pressure wasn’t going to change that.

I guess my point here is that underdog situations can involve failure and still be satisfying.

Yes, that is the original definition of deus ex machina. In modern usage, though, most people use it to refer to any out-of-left-field plot device that is abruptly brought in at the last minute, with no previous set-up or foreshadowing, to quickly & conveniently solve the story’s crisis.

That was a great story, that Justice League annual where Blue Beetle had to face off against Eclipso all by himself (with nice artwork by dave Cockrum). It helped show that, underneath all of the goofy bwah-ha-ha-ha stuff, BB was a competent & intelligent guy who could hold his own alongside the DCU’s big guns.

Really makes me wish that BB had been written that way in “Countdown to Infinite Crisis,” instead of as a putz who everyone regarded as a loser.

Despero, Amazo, Eclipso. Is there somthing about having a name that ends with ‘o’ that makes you sound more evil?

The O Quiz!

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/11/01/test-your-comic-book-knowledge-for-111/

The revelation that Ivo created Amazo with such a ridiculous flaw is “an unexpected, artificial, and/or improbable device and/or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation.”

Or, in other words, a deus ex machina.

The “suddenly” aspect is the revelation that Ivo, for no reason at all, gave Amazo “strictly literal” abilities, which makes no sense, as the same effect would have occurred had he (logically) programmed Amazo to just have the powers of as many superheroes as he decided Amazo should have, which is what he always did in the past.