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hehe !!

You should give the advice to artists, writers or editors ??!!

Maybe are they only following an entertainment tendency. Rihanna, X-Tina & Britney, for example, were/are teens & the industry use/d their sex-appeal as a promo tool.

It's really awkward and annoying when it's placed out of context too; sometimes it's just so OTT and gratuitous, I can't take it. I remember there was one panel in one Civil War book (the exact book or time escapes me), and they were showing us a scene, and in the foreground and to the right hand side was She-Hulk's ass. No head, no reason, just ass. Completely unnecessary, and I immediately felt that I am not the target audience.

Yeah, come to think of it, that's what Watchmen was missing... more gratuitous ass shots.

Funny, but...

Negative reinforcement is the removal of unwanted stimuli (e.g. hard work ending), and is designed to increase the chances a behavior will occur. Punishment (the infliction of an unwanted stimulus) is what you are talking about.

Sorry, I have a behaviorist background. Carry on.

Not to mention, it's not negative punishment, it's positive punishment. "Positive/negative" is "adding/taking away", "reinforcement/punishment" is "good/bad". So depriving you of food (by, say, sending you to your room without dinner) is "negative punishment."

I don't have a behaviorist background. I'm just a pedant.

You may have wanted to clarify that you were referencing the second issue of the newest incarnation of The Brave and The Bold.
It was funny, but come on... Hal Jordan is supposed to be a bastion of Willpower. Those rings don't work on their own, you know!

Of course when you have Supergirl coming on to you, wearing that skimpy almost non-existant costume... Ugh. Honestly, I can't stand the new Supergirl. She's a superpowered skanky ditz and I can't understand why DC thinks anybody would like to read about her. No women, of course and well... I guess teen boys would fall for that alone. Sad, really.

Now, Cyclone and Miss Martian? They are drawn to attract but they're also good characters. Heck, they don't even have more than 4 issues on their belts and they still manage to be far more interesting and likeable characters than Supergirl.

I wasn't really nuts about that aspect of Brave and Bold #2, but I couldn't really deny that it was in character for both Supergirl and Green Lantern.

I agree with Pablo, the new Supergirl is a complete bore

New Supergirl would be fine if written by the right person.

I don't give Loeb credit for much, but the idea of her being trained from youth to kill her father's brother's son bceause her dad was a nutjob isn't bad.

It's just the execution that's been pretty dreadful.

I fully believe that Rucka could have salvaged the character if he had more than one issue to do it in though.

You're all aware that this is one of the therapies some ex-gay books and ministries recommend for banishing homosexual urges?

Well I thought that having Supergirl having an older man crush on Hal "I'm like Tom Cruise Maverick from Top Gun only taller, with a Rower Ring and a body count littered with betrayed frineds from having been the greatest fallen from grace hero turned monster in the DC universe until Geoff Johns Superboy punched me an acquittal" Jordan kind of makes sense.

Putting aside the fact that he's the DCU's greatest monster, Kara just might have a thing for older men, especially staid Silver Age authority figures, and Hal does bring the sense of reckless daredevil charm, a bad boy if you will (badboy meaning someone who betrayed all of this friends in a hissy fit of self-centered arrogance and was forgiven faster than Wally eats a stack of pancakes).

Plus its her first mission on her own and, check me if I'm wrong here, doesn't she have very litte opportunity to flirt openly and just be a girl? I mean its not like Robin or Kid Devil or any of the teen aged heroes would actually ever try to hook up wiht her or even flirt because, that "S" is pretty scary. So hainvg a nice "long drive" with Hal "He's just like my cousin but differnt...because he's the greatest monster in the DCU" might just cause some sparks.

But none of this detracts from the fact that Hal IS a sick freak who on top of his crimes of betrayal wants to get it on with an innocent teen aged girl and deserves to have his green hide flawyed from his body by heat vision. Or, you know, have Bats beat the crap out of him.

Oh, for cryin' out loud! She's 17, not 7.

My problem with it all isn't if this happened just once or was a small part of her character, but Kara seems to be a little boy crazy all the time. It's kind of annoying, from her Nightwing crushes and the kiss she plants on him to this, it's just really comes off as awkward in a fanfic type of way. As far as the underage thing, it doesn't really bother me in a holier than though way, because let's be honest, most of us straight guys at some point guiltily lusted over a pre-18 year old Lindsay Lohab, Hilary Duff or Britney Spears. Sexualizing 16 and 17 year olds is a normal part of pop culture now, sadly. It isn't just a comic thing. I'm not thrilled about it, but I've accepted it.

Wait, we're STILL on this?

WHY?

It never seemed like Hal was seriously tempted to do anything improper. She started flirting (never in a way that was overtly sexual, to boot, or did I miss a double entendre?), he did what he could to brush it off and at one point outright told her to stop, and she did (as far as I can tell.)

If the character were 12 or 15 or something it would still be seriously creepy, but 17 is legally of-age in some places and pretty firmly past the threshhold of physical maturity. You could definitely consider Hal too old for her on a number of levels, but again, it doesn't go beyond "you're cute! Tee hee!"

They both came off as realistically written- Supergirl in particular was more charming and likeable than has been the norm, and the fact that Perez drew her a bit more like the old Kara and less like Chibi Paris Hilton may have helped too.

While I can't stand the new Supergirl, I don't quite get the furor over the Hal Jordan scene. Yes, she is flirtatious and yes, she wears a skimpy outfit (don't most superheroes?), but I assume this reaction stems from her being 17.
While that is commonly accepted as "underage", according to Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America

18 is hardly universal, even in the US where a lot of states allow age of consent to be as young as 16. Being 30, I WOULD find it uncomfortable if a 17 year old made a pass at me, but I don't find the scene in B&B problematic because of it.

To be fair, it's *completely* in character for Hal to have a thing for skinny, underaged blonde jailbait.

Mike & John,

I certainly get what you're trying to say, and I'd gladly edit it if you're right, but I'm just not sure - "negative reinforcement" still sounds right to me. I've read psychology text books before that specifically refer to the "Rubber Band Method" as "negative reinforcement."

I could be missing something, though, so please fill me in if I am.

"As far as the underage thing, it doesn’t really bother me in a holier than though way, because let’s be honest, most of us straight guys at some point guiltily lusted over a pre-18 year old Lindsay Lohab, Hilary Duff or Britney Spears. Sexualizing 16 and 17 year olds is a normal part of pop culture now, sadly. It isn’t just a comic thing".

Quoted for truth. The media sells 16/17 year old girls like sex symbols. Comics are just reflecting that.

I don't like it there, I don't like it in kid-friendly superhero comics. I don't see what's tough to understand about that.

Brian: Again, sorry to nitpick, I realize it's obnoxious. (especially on a joke! I'm acting more like a frequent internet poster who ignores social conventions than I ever meant to) The differences between +/- reinforcement and punishment have been drilled into me. I'm absolutely insufferable when it comes to portrayal of people with autism (the population I work with)in the media. Believe it or not, a Batman story (Legends of the Dark knight 98 & 99) portrayed a child with autism better than any other mass-media interpretation.

Anyway, to confirm my assertion, I looked it up on the ever-reliable wikipedia (under "reinforcement"), and you're talking about punishment rather than negative reinforcement.

It took me a second to remember why it's in character for Hal to be attracted to skinny, underage blondes.

For those whose memory is worse than mine, he had a relationship for several years with Arisia (recently reappeared in GL #12 or so). She was originally presented as a young teenage girl with a huge crush on Hal. When he made it clear that he felt she was too young for him, she used either her ring, or some facet of her alien biology to age herself to adulthood. I cannot recall if she was actually older than she originally appeared, so that her physique simply matched her actual age, or if she really was 12, but following the aging, she and Hal became a couple.

“As far as the underage thing, it doesn’t really bother me in a holier than though way, because let’s be honest, most of us straight guys at some point guiltily lusted over a pre-18 year old Lindsay Lohab, Hilary Duff or Britney Spears. Sexualizing 16 and 17 year olds is a normal part of pop culture now, sadly. It isn’t just a comic thing”.

I'd like to think "Lohab" was just a brilliant pun and not a typing error.

I bring nothing to the table.