Comments on: Damn you, MacPherson!! http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/ Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good! Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:18:39 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Brian Cronin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-2/#comment-652877 Brian Cronin Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:16:57 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-652877 <blockquote>why is a well hung man creepy ?</blockquote> That's where we differ, RJP3. You think it's just a "well-hung" guy, and I think it looks like like an erection. The former is not creepy to show on the cover of a superhero comic, but I think the latter is, similar to the seemingly panty-less drawing of Cyclone on the cover of the previous issue of JSA (and similar to the other two horrible statues of female superheroes Don also mentioned in the above link).

why is a well hung man creepy ?

That's where we differ, RJP3. You think it's just a "well-hung" guy, and I think it looks like like an erection.

The former is not creepy to show on the cover of a superhero comic, but I think the latter is, similar to the seemingly panty-less drawing of Cyclone on the cover of the previous issue of JSA (and similar to the other two horrible statues of female superheroes Don also mentioned in the above link).

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By: RJP3 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-652871 RJP3 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:14:08 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-652871 why is a well hung man creepy ? well endowed women and huge muscle on guys are normal in comic books i think noticing and thinking about another (cartoon) man's penis is creating your experience that you are feel as creepy - it actually is just you thinking a hung crotch looks good - strong - amazing - powerful - hung is good buddy dont worry you dont have to have sex with him --- or think about it sexually or do you mean to say all wild sexual images MUST make the viewer think about sex and they can not help it ---- if so --- all comic books should be banned from the hands of children why is a well hung man creepy ?
well endowed women and huge muscle on guys are normal in comic books
i think noticing and thinking about another (cartoon) man's penis is creating
your experience that you are feel as creepy - it actually is just you thinking
a hung crotch looks good - strong - amazing - powerful - hung is good buddy

dont worry you dont have to have sex with him --- or think about it sexually
or do you mean to say all wild sexual images MUST make the viewer think
about sex and they can not help it ---- if so --- all comic books should be banned
from the hands of children

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By: Citizen C http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-102417 Citizen C Thu, 31 May 2007 03:41:21 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-102417 This is nothing compared to the hyper endowed boys over at Class Comics! I think it's funny how breasts are being compared with penises (yes, I used the correct term, sorry) -- I didn't realize that breasts were the sexual organs. Still, I get the hyper endowment bit, (and I think that it would still be an impressive package) but what makes it ...uh... stand out more is the fact that the lines or shadowing of the costume all point towards his crotch, giving it more attention, or at least more of an illusion it's that much bigger and that much more erect than most other crotches painted by Alex Ross. I'd be more upset however, if the art was of a sexualized objectified nature ... a zipper running down just above his pubes, a woman running her hands down her chest on one side, and a man on one leg for example, all the while with the same amount of emphasis as the costume suggests. Sexual objectification unfortunately continues to run rampant through comic books and I think is the bigger issue ... pun not intended. It's one thing to draw realisticly or unrealistcly sized goods, but it's the context of how those are played up. Women in comics are more often than not depicted with bodies and poses that are not attainable by all women, *and* are usually drawn in a way that is sexually suggestive or revealing. Just as men are drawn with bulging muscles like Superman or Batman, very few males are drawn that aren't toned and ripped but they aren't posed in such a way or clothed in such a way that depicts sex. You probably won't see Superman bursting forth from water with his head and arms back dripping wet before he kicks a villain's ass as you would Power Girl. Not that sex or sexuality is wrong, but when it is drawn for that alone and does not present a reason behind it, or justification, then that is where the problem lies. Wonder Woman, for example, being drawn with a more muscular physique and larger sized breasts and little else is one thing if it is meant to convey that the character is not afraid of her body, and is invulnerable in the sense she needn't have to wear a lot, and just happens to be endowed as she is, but when the breasts or g-string sized thong she can be depicted in is the forefront of that for the sake of appealing to a horny heterosexual young male, then that is a problem. My mom grew up with Wonder Woman and Supergirl, and she helped me get into comics, and picking up them now, she was distraught at the "out of proportion" bodies of both. I'm all for having a sexy looking hero, but that shouldn't be the center of it. I think that Wonder Woman can be impressive with a "bulkier" exterior, or that of the "classic" look as appearing on all sorts of media and merchandise these days, where thinner arms can still equally represent that a woman who may seem "frail" compared to a big man is as strong as or more so than one. Like the controversy over the Mary Jane Laundry statue, although not necessarily wrong that she is in a cheesecake pose or even that she has massive breasts popping out with her thong showing, but it's more wrong that there was probably no discussion to presenting it as "Mary Jane Discovers Peter's Secret" (as Adam Hughes says that was his initial intent) than to sell some T & A. There was probably no discussion that even if MJ is indeed wanting to be sexy and wants to show off that it could be depicted sexy by having more average sized breasts or at least wearing a t-shirt. But I digress. Society is all about sex and putting it in every ad from bubble gum to candles and beyond. But a lot of that sex or definition of sexualizing one's gender is predominantly female. Obviously magazines such as Men's Health are all about depicting Today's "perfect" male specimen, but the ratio out there in magazines, comic books, or other media is definitely not equal. Puritan, Quaker, or just one's own awkwardness towards male sexuality either by a complex or a type of homophobia by depicting a man with sex organs is an issue, but the fact that Citizen Steel (who now can probably joked as having a permanant hard on or erection of steel) actually having a package isn't. This is nothing compared to the hyper endowed boys over at Class Comics! I think it's funny how breasts are being compared with penises (yes, I used the correct term, sorry) -- I didn't realize that breasts were the sexual organs.

Still, I get the hyper endowment bit, (and I think that it would still be an impressive package) but what makes it ...uh... stand out more is the fact that the lines or shadowing of the costume all point towards his crotch, giving it more attention, or at least more of an illusion it's that much bigger and that much more erect than most other crotches painted by Alex Ross.

I'd be more upset however, if the art was of a sexualized objectified nature ... a zipper running down just above his pubes, a woman running her hands down her chest on one side, and a man on one leg for example, all the while with the same amount of emphasis as the costume suggests.

Sexual objectification unfortunately continues to run rampant through comic books and I think is the bigger issue ... pun not intended.

It's one thing to draw realisticly or unrealistcly sized goods, but it's the context of how those are played up. Women in comics are more often than not depicted with bodies and poses that are not attainable by all women, *and* are usually drawn in a way that is sexually suggestive or revealing.

Just as men are drawn with bulging muscles like Superman or Batman, very few males are drawn that aren't toned and ripped but they aren't posed in such a way or clothed in such a way that depicts sex. You probably won't see Superman bursting forth from water with his head and arms back dripping wet before he kicks a villain's ass as you would Power Girl.

Not that sex or sexuality is wrong, but when it is drawn for that alone and does not present a reason behind it, or justification, then that is where the problem lies.

Wonder Woman, for example, being drawn with a more muscular physique and larger sized breasts and little else is one thing if it is meant to convey that the character is not afraid of her body, and is invulnerable in the sense she needn't have to wear a lot, and just happens to be endowed as she is, but when the breasts or g-string sized thong she can be depicted in is the forefront of that for the sake of appealing to a horny heterosexual young male, then that is a problem.

My mom grew up with Wonder Woman and Supergirl, and she helped me get into comics, and picking up them now, she was distraught at the "out of proportion" bodies of both.

I'm all for having a sexy looking hero, but that shouldn't be the center of it. I think that Wonder Woman can be impressive with a "bulkier" exterior, or that of the "classic" look as appearing on all sorts of media and merchandise these days, where thinner arms can still equally represent that a woman who may seem "frail" compared to a big man is as strong as or more so than one.

Like the controversy over the Mary Jane Laundry statue, although not necessarily wrong that she is in a cheesecake pose or even that she has massive breasts popping out with her thong showing, but it's more wrong that there was probably no discussion to presenting it as "Mary Jane Discovers Peter's Secret" (as Adam Hughes says that was his initial intent) than to sell some T & A. There was probably no discussion that even if MJ is indeed wanting to be sexy and wants to show off that it could be depicted sexy by having more average sized breasts or at least wearing a t-shirt. But I digress.

Society is all about sex and putting it in every ad from bubble gum to candles and beyond. But a lot of that sex or definition of sexualizing one's gender is predominantly female.

Obviously magazines such as Men's Health are all about depicting Today's "perfect" male specimen, but the ratio out there in magazines, comic books, or other media is definitely not equal.

Puritan, Quaker, or just one's own awkwardness towards male sexuality either by a complex or a type of homophobia by depicting a man with sex organs is an issue, but the fact that Citizen Steel (who now can probably joked as having a permanant hard on or erection of steel) actually having a package isn't.

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By: Shamus http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-90586 Shamus Thu, 10 May 2007 00:36:35 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-90586 Time to grow up kids. Time to grow up kids.

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By: SeanK http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-84790 SeanK Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:43:38 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-84790 Yeah, the "creepy" thing is what is bothering me about this whole post. He uses the word "creepy" FIVE times in this post. And in the post, he never says that it's a possible erection he thinks is creepy. It's the sight of "a big bulge" that is creepy. Is it homophobic to express such sentiments? I don't know the poster personally, so I cannot say if he is homophobic or not. To me, it seems more prudish, or simply ignorant to have such a distasteful reaction to human anatomy. I'd ask the poster to think for a while about WHY he finds male anatomy so "creepy". Yeah, the "creepy" thing is what is bothering me about this whole post. He uses the word "creepy" FIVE times in this post. And in the post, he never says that it's a possible erection he thinks is creepy. It's the sight of "a big bulge" that is creepy. Is it homophobic to express such sentiments? I don't know the poster personally, so I cannot say if he is homophobic or not. To me, it seems more prudish, or simply ignorant to have such a distasteful reaction to human anatomy. I'd ask the poster to think for a while about WHY he finds male anatomy so "creepy".

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By: Paul http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-84758 Paul Thu, 26 Apr 2007 02:40:00 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-84758 Well, he did describe it as creepy. Not sure why an erection would be considered creepy. If anyone can explain, please do. Well, he did describe it as creepy.
Not sure why an erection would be considered creepy. If anyone can explain, please do.

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By: MarkAndrew http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-84500 MarkAndrew Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:40:02 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-84500 Aaaaaand where did he say "Emma Frost should be bulging out of her corset?" If you make something up and pretend someone else said it, it doesn't make them a hypocrite. Aaaaaand where did he say "Emma Frost should be bulging out of her corset?"

If you make something up and pretend someone else said it, it doesn't make them a hypocrite.

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By: UperShep http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-84480 UperShep Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:02:22 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-84480 Sure, it doesn't make him a homophobe, but it sure makes him a hyppocrite. Emma Frost can be bulging out of her corset, but a guy in spandex cannot have the faintest bit of downstairs masculinity? Sure, it doesn't make him a homophobe, but it sure makes him a hyppocrite. Emma Frost can be bulging out of her corset, but a guy in spandex cannot have the faintest bit of downstairs masculinity?

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By: Apodaca http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-84470 Apodaca Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:41:29 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-84470 Even if Brian was afraid of the penis, that doesn't make him a homophobe. You should bone up on the meaning of such a powerful word. Pun intended. Even if Brian was afraid of the penis, that doesn't make him a homophobe. You should bone up on the meaning of such a powerful word.

Pun intended.

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By: kyle http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-84456 kyle Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:33:22 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-84456 Frankly, what I find most "creepy" about all of this is Cronin's panicky, homophobic reaction to the sight of a rather unremarkable bulge. Grow up. Frankly, what I find most "creepy" about all of this is Cronin's panicky, homophobic reaction to the sight of a rather unremarkable bulge. Grow up.

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By: Apodaca http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-84319 Apodaca Tue, 24 Apr 2007 21:48:00 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-84319 <blockquote>I say it’s about time the basement dwelling boys of comics fandom got a taste of their own medicine.</blockquote> Then go rant at them. Are you even talking to someone in particular or are you just hopping on the bandwagon that feels most justified? Do us all a favor, and stay the hell away from things you know nothing about.

I say it’s about time the basement dwelling boys of comics fandom got a taste of their own medicine.

Then go rant at them.

Are you even talking to someone in particular or are you just hopping on the bandwagon that feels most justified?

Do us all a favor, and stay the hell away from things you know nothing about.

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By: Mer http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-84223 Mer Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:47:04 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-84223 "How OLD are you that an anatomically correct male is creepy." - Beth Being a feminist and heterosexual female superhero comics fan, I'm finding it increasingly more difficult to pick up the average mainstream superhero comic without being ashamed and disgusted by the various depictions of Supergirl, Powergirl...et al, - characters that, we shouldn't forget, were intended to appeal to and bring in young female readers. However, this doesn't mean that I want the artists' bizarre playground of sexualized superheroes to be leveled by having equally exaggerated depictions of male genitalia. So guess what... I find the protruding, ERECT-looking penis of Citizen Steel CREEPY. Guess I'm an immature adolescent boy too, eh? "How OLD are you that an anatomically correct male is creepy." - Beth

Being a feminist and heterosexual female superhero comics fan, I'm finding it increasingly more difficult to pick up the average mainstream superhero comic without being ashamed and disgusted by the various depictions of Supergirl, Powergirl...et al, - characters that, we shouldn't forget, were intended to appeal to and bring in young female readers. However, this doesn't mean that I want the artists' bizarre playground of sexualized superheroes to be leveled by having equally exaggerated depictions of male genitalia. So guess what... I find the protruding, ERECT-looking penis of Citizen Steel CREEPY. Guess I'm an immature adolescent boy too, eh?

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By: Beth http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-83998 Beth Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:27:39 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-83998 Creepy? How OLD are you that an anatomically correct male is creepy. Have you been staring at Power Girl's breasts so long that you've forgotten that men have sexual organs too? I say it's about time the basement dwelling boys of comics fandom got a taste of their own medicine. Creepy? How OLD are you that an anatomically correct male is creepy. Have you been staring at Power Girl's breasts so long that you've forgotten that men have sexual organs too?

I say it's about time the basement dwelling boys of comics fandom got a taste of their own medicine.

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By: Apodaca http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-83992 Apodaca Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:05:19 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-83992 Wow. I can't believe this was actually some kind of scandal. We're not allowed to make fun of covers anymore? Wow. I can't believe this was actually some kind of scandal.

We're not allowed to make fun of covers anymore?

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By: Tom http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-83821 Tom Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:14:14 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-83821 Duh, if you had super hero power coursing through your veins, you would be sporting wood also. But you're not. Not at all. Duh, if you had super hero power coursing through your veins, you would be sporting wood also. But you're not. Not at all.

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By: Aiguille http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-83413 Aiguille Sat, 21 Apr 2007 21:56:09 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-83413 Over at Postmodernbarney.com, blogger Dorian has weighed in on "Crotch-Gate" and offers a trio of comparison pics, in various flavors of NSFW. I won't link directly, though I find them remarkably tame. All crotches are clothed, it's just what can be seen underneath that varies. After comparing them to Citizen Steel, not only do I see *no* erection in evidence, I honestly think that his "package" would have to be deliniated much more explicitly (As in Dorian's final two comparison pics) to approach the same realm of surreal, physics-defying gratuity that allows for a superheroic woman's spandex outfit to routinely detail every erogenous zone, crawl up her rear in a viscious wedgie, show graphic cameltoe and a perfect bikini wax, and lovingly cup and pocket (rather than depress) perky braless breasts with permanently erect nipples. She fights crime with friction rashes *and* a yeast infection! To say nothing of the flying, skirted nymphettes with no underwear at all. All the better to give spectators an eyeful and subtextually imply readiness for a sexual encounter, right? Perhaps fear of furors like this are what lead to the comparative modesty of Superman and Batman's overbreifs, which seemingly behave less like spandex, and hide those naturally occuring vertical wrinkles that point wangward. But if your gonna be honest about it, the bulge is still there. http://thatsmyskull.blogspot.com/2007/03/be-careful-what-you-bitch-about-ask-for.html And why shouldn't it be? No feminist so far has called for *concave* chests on females, so lets stop depicting the male pubic zone as a shadowy, flat indistinction. Over at Postmodernbarney.com, blogger Dorian has weighed in on "Crotch-Gate" and offers a trio of comparison pics, in various flavors of NSFW. I won't link directly, though I find them remarkably tame. All crotches are clothed, it's just what can be seen underneath that varies.

After comparing them to Citizen Steel, not only do I see *no* erection in evidence, I honestly think that his "package" would have to be deliniated much more explicitly (As in Dorian's final two comparison pics) to approach the same realm of surreal, physics-defying gratuity that allows for a superheroic woman's spandex outfit to routinely detail every erogenous zone, crawl up her rear in a viscious wedgie, show graphic cameltoe and a perfect bikini wax, and lovingly cup and pocket (rather than depress) perky braless breasts with permanently erect nipples.

She fights crime with friction rashes *and* a yeast infection! To say nothing of the flying, skirted nymphettes with no underwear at all. All the better to give spectators an eyeful and subtextually imply readiness for a sexual encounter, right?

Perhaps fear of furors like this are what lead to the comparative modesty of Superman and Batman's overbreifs, which seemingly behave less like spandex, and hide those naturally occuring vertical wrinkles that point wangward. But if your gonna be honest about it, the bulge is still there. http://thatsmyskull.blogspot.com/2007/03/be-careful-what-you-bitch-about-ask-for.html And why shouldn't it be? No feminist so far has called for *concave* chests on females, so lets stop depicting the male pubic zone as a shadowy, flat indistinction.

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By: Don MacPherson http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-83110 Don MacPherson Fri, 20 Apr 2007 21:22:59 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-83110 Alistair wrote: <I>Oh, I’m not saying it wouldn’t be equally bad id it were a woman. I just meant that it looks like he’s just thrusting into mid-air. Look at his arms - it’s like he’s just thrust his pelvis out at that exact moment.</I> Actually, in the context of what we've seen of the character so far, he's no doubt examining and experiencing his new, liquid-steel-enhanced body. Alistair wrote:
Oh, I’m not saying it wouldn’t be equally bad id it were a woman. I just meant that it looks like he’s just thrusting into mid-air. Look at his arms - it’s like he’s just thrust his pelvis out at that exact moment.

Actually, in the context of what we've seen of the character so far, he's no doubt examining and experiencing his new, liquid-steel-enhanced body.

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By: Sleestak http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-83080 Sleestak Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:33:57 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-83080 I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the last few years of increasing awareness of how women characters are portrayed in comic books has yielded changes that I believe were an unintended consequence for the audience. The wide spread protests, snark and educational essays in blogs and forums have, ironically, actually caused the problems of the exploitation of gender to become worse. Instead of writers and artists toning down the cheescake and soft porn in regards to women, they have instead increased the hyper-sexualization of the male characters in order to make all things equal. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the last few years of increasing awareness of how women characters are portrayed in comic books has yielded changes that I believe were an unintended consequence for the audience. The wide spread protests, snark and educational essays in blogs and forums have, ironically, actually caused the problems of the exploitation of gender to become worse.

Instead of writers and artists toning down the cheescake and soft porn in regards to women, they have instead increased the hyper-sexualization of the male characters in order to make all things equal.

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By: -alistairw http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-82795 -alistairw Fri, 20 Apr 2007 05:02:12 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-82795 Oh, I'm not saying it wouldn't be equally bad id it were a woman. I just meant that it looks like he's just thrusting into mid-air. Look at his arms - it's like he's just thrust his pelvis out at that exact moment. "Huuuhh," he's saying. "Huhuuuuuuuhh." Weirdo. Oh, I'm not saying it wouldn't be equally bad id it were a woman. I just meant that it looks like he's just thrusting into mid-air. Look at his arms - it's like he's just thrust his pelvis out at that exact moment.

"Huuuhh," he's saying. "Huhuuuuuuuhh."

Weirdo.

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By: Anun http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/comment-page-1/#comment-82792 Anun Fri, 20 Apr 2007 04:53:46 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/04/18/damn-you-macpherson/#comment-82792 I was actually responding to the person who posted directly ahead of me, finding an easy example of artists who "actively thrust" exploitative cheesecake art on me. But thanks for playing! I was actually responding to the person who posted directly ahead of me, finding an easy example of artists who "actively thrust" exploitative cheesecake art on me. But thanks for playing!

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