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CSBG Archive

Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed #100

This is the one-hundredth in a series of examinations of comic book urban legends and whether they are true or false. Click here for an archive of the previous ninety-nine. Click here for a similar archive, only arranged by subject.

This week’s installment is a special one-hundredth edition! This week is DOUBLE-SIZED (comic book style double-sized)!! It features ALL-STAR GUEST STARS! And it contains…the ORIGINAL COMIC BOOK URBAN LEGEND that was REVEALED!

Let’s begin!

Civil War #1 was “double-sized,” but it had 33 story pages as compared to the usual 21/22. So it really wasn’t DOUBLE the size at all, was it? 50% more, though, has become standard in the comic book industry for “double” the size.

So, in this double-sized edition of Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed, rather than 3 urban legends this week, you all will get FIVE!

The first four are courtesy of super-duper comic creator guest stars, who will each contribute their own urban legend!!

Fred Van Lente is so awesome that he has his own HOLIDAY! He also writes the awesome Action Philosophers, as well as a ton of different comics for Marvel, including an upcoming series starring M.O.D.O.K.!! Read more about him at his website here.

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: The Scorpion was originally going to be the child of Viper and Silver Samurai


Editor Mark Paniccia had liked an indy “super-crime” comic I had written, The Silencers, and we had kicked around a project idea or two while he was still at Tokyopop.

Then, when he took a job at Marvel, he invited me, and a couple other writers, to pitch for the next arc in a comic called Amazing Fantasy. They had run a poll on Marvel.com that had the readers vote on a character to receive a complete “makeover”: same name, but otherwise a completely different character from the ground up. The Spidey villain Scorpion won the poll.

Mark wanted the new Scorpion to be a teenage girl superspy with a stinging touch, and because I wanted to tie her in to the larger Marvel Universe, I came up with the idea of an adopted girl who discovers that she’s illegitimate daughter of venerable villains and frequent partners-in-crime, Viper and the Silver Samurai. I figure V&SS got drunk one night in Madripoor or something, hooked up in their hotel room, and the new Scorpion was the result. The Scorpion’s stinging arm would be a combination of Viper’s venom powers and the Silver Samurai’s energy-field mutant ability.





16206_4_007.jpg ?

I wrote up a one-page pitch, sent it in, and a few days later, received a very nice rejection email back from Mark, thanking me, saying they liked it, but they decided to go with another writer’s pitch. I was disappointed, as you might imagine, but I figured, what the heck, I made a good showing of myself, and the door was left open for me to pitch more stuff in the future.

Then, out of nowhere, a little less than a month later, Marvel calls me and says they had to let the other writer go (for reasons I quite consciously made the decision I would remain blissfully ignorant of) and they were going to go with my pitch instead.

The phone conversation went something like this:

MARVEL: “Except, here’s the thing, Silver Samurai is in Wolverine right now and you can’t use him. And we have plans for Viper in another book, so you can’t use her either. But other than that, the pitch is great.”

ME: (long pause) “So what you’re saying is, you’re accepting my pitch about a girl who finds out she’s the daughter of the Viper and the Silver Samurai…”

MARVEL: “Right.”

ME: “…except I can’t use the Viper.”

MARVEL: “Right.”

ME: “Or the Silver Samurai.”

MARVEL: “Right.” (beat) “And we need it by Thursday.” (We had this conversation on Tuesday.) “Go for it, Fred! We know you can do it!”

Click … hmmmmmmmm ….

Once I recovered from my three coronaries, I managed to turn in an outline for a new arc that retained the spirit of what I had originally intended but with characters of my own creation. The arc was well received and some of those characters have wormed their way into the larger Marvel Universe — Scorpion’s SHIELD handler Derek Khanata, for example, played a major role in Parker & Kirk’s Agents of Atlas — but whenever I look at the character I’m always reminded of what might-have-been.

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Because so much time had been lost in the publishing schedule since they hired a second writer (me), the artist had to design the character so the cover could be drawn before I had actually turned in my second pitch. So the finished character was designed from the old pitch, you see?

And that’s why the new Scorpion has green hair:


Because she was supposed to be the Viper and the Silver Samurai’s daughter.

(Oh, and in June the new Scorpion returns in back-ups in Spider-Man Family #3 by me and Leonard Kirk in which she fights Mac Gargan/Venom for the rights to the Scorpion name … and Heroes for Hire #11, which sets up the role she plays in World War Hulk. Sorry, we comics creators never miss a chance to plug…)

Jeff Parker writes a lot of great comics for Marvel, from Agents of Atlas to X-Men: First Class to some of the funniest superhero comics out there with Marvel Adventures: Avengers. He does all this AND managed to publish a cool book about Alex Toth! Surely he must be more machine than man! Read about the continuing legend of Jeff at his website here.

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: Marvel Adventures: Fantastic Four #12 was an intentional knock-off of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang



“Doom Where’s My Car?” was based precisely on Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, right down to specific lines from the movie in a few places.


My 2 year got infatuated with the movie and wanted to see it all the time, so I saw it all the time. And at some point in a sleepy haze I was watching and realized; Reed is a wacky inventor like Dick Van Dyke, Truly Scrumptious could be Sue, Dr. Doom is Baron Bomburst, and so on. You could have even done this in regular continuity with Val and Franklin replacing Crackitus Potts’ kids. And it let me do Latveria the way I wanted, where they’re all still stuck in the past wearing lederhosen.

For an extra Marvel Adventures factoid, the latest Avengers book, “Ego, The Loving Planet” is the only pitch I’ve ever gotten through solely on a phone call. That occurred to me while driving somewhere and I called Nate Cosby and spoke it all out to him, trying my best to imitate Billy Dee Williams as Ego. A Barry White voice as people suggest is appropriate too, but can even a living planet speak that deep?

Besides being one of the most prominent letterers in comics today, Chris Eliopoulos co-writes and draws the awesome series of comics featuring the adventures of Frankin Richards, son of Mr. Fantastic. Read more about Chris at his website, Desperate Times. And you can read his new daily webcomic, Misery Loves Sherman, here!

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: Chris Elopoulos draws the Mini-Marvels series.


For a long time now, people confuse Chris Giarrusso for me and me for him. Many people see a cartoonist named Chris and some long unpronounceable last name and assume they’re the same person.

Well, we’re not.

For one thing, Chris is younger than me. He’s also taller than me (just about everyone is) and better looking than me. He can also beat Mike Oeming at arm wrestling while I’ve been known to lose to a six-year-old girl. Online and at conventions, we always get confused for the other. We are both cartoonists who have had back-up features in Savage Dragon, but while I do Franklin Richards, Chris does Mini Marvels and G-Man.

15975_4_001.jpg – Elopoulos

11178_4_001.jpg – Giarrusso

I’ve seen people post messages that “Franklin, just like my other work-the Mini-Marvels, was wonderful.” I’ve had people tell me at conventions that they LOVE my G-Man comic. I try to politely tell them we’re not the same guy. Chris warned me that I may have some fans who now hate me because when people hand him a Franklin to sign, he refuses to sign it which probably confuses and angers the fan.

So, there’s another difference when you meet us-I’m the nice one!

Jay Faerber currently writes two of the best ongoing superhero comics out there, Noble Causes and Dynamo 5, both monthly from Image Comics. You can read more about Jay at his website here.

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COMIC URBAN LEGEND: Jay Faerber’s run on Titans featured some prominent supporting characters that were not in Jay’s intended plan for the series.


The DEO kids in my Titans run were forced on me, to a degree. Editor Andy Helfer wanted to shake the book up, and come up with a concrete reason why the Titans exist — a reason beyond “to fight crime,” since that’s the reason ALL super-teams exist. He wanted a mission statement, which is completely understandable. We were talking one night, and he mentioned this idea about a group of kids showing up on the Titans’ doorstep. They’re being pursued by someone/something, and the Titans wind up acting as their protectors, which becomes their new “mission.”

He said that idea was just a “for instance,” and I was glad, because I wasn’t crazy about it. I felt it aged the Titans, by making them the “grown-ups” of the book. Over the next week or so, Andy kept circling back to that idea, to the point where it became clear that’s what we were gonna do. He had initially suggested they be aliens, but I countered with the idea that they had escaped from the DEO’s Orphanage, which had been established in some stories by D. Curtis Johnson. I’ve always liked government conspiracy stuff more than alien-stuff, so this felt like a way to at least make the idea semi-interesting to myself. Andy had no problems with that, so we moved ahead.


I honestly can’t even remember all the kids’ names. I know the tough little kid with the magnetic powers was Scrap, and he was largely my creation. Grace, the athletic girl, was also my creation. The kid who could slow stuff down was mainly Andy’s idea — the powers, at least.
The autistic girl was another Andy contribution. And the strong, chubby kid was Andy’s suggestion, as well.


The personalities were pretty much all me. So it’s not like Andy was dictating the stories to me. He just provided the general set-up, and then we’d get together for lunch and talk through each issue before I wrote it, but once I started writing the script, I was pretty much left alone. Obviously, the DEO kids didn’t go over well at all, which is to be expected, I guess, when even the writer isn’t crazy about the idea. But again, the execution was largely mine. Who knows? If Andy had been working with another writer, the concept could’ve worked beautifully. I just know I wasn’t the guy to make it work.

A good friend of mine, Bill Walko, runs a fantastic Titans-related website, and he’s got a copy of my original proposal for the book. This is what landed me the gig. If you check it out, you’ll see just how different it is from what actually made it on the page!

Thanks to all my guests! You guys rule!

Now, here, for the first time in this format, is the original urban legend to be revealed!!!

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: Walter Simonson compiled a list of all the appearances of Doctor Doom in comics and determined which ones were actually Doom and which ones were Doom-bots.


In Fantastic Four #350, we saw the return of a famous Fantastic Four character, Doctor Doom.


That is not that abnormal, except this time, we saw the return of the “real” Doctor Doom!!

Fantastic Four 350-06_edited.jpg

In the issue, writer Walter Simonson introduced the idea that Doom had been off on a long journey through time and space, and in his absences, he left behind “Doom-Bots,” robots that looked and acted just like Doom.

The “Doom-Bot” idea was first introduced during John Byrne’s run on Fantastic Four, where Byrne wrote off an appearance by Doom that he thought was out of character of Doom as being a “Doom-Bot.”

What Simonson did here was to extend Byrne’s idea, and put into question ANY Doom appearances that seemed odd, as Simonson’s Doom had returned from time to time over the years.

Fantastic Four 350-09_edited.jpg

The effect of this idea is clear – it allows the reader to assume, in their minds, that any given “out of character” appearance by Doom was a Doom-Bot.

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Fantastic Four 350-16_edited.jpg

Fantastic Four 350-35_edited.jpg

Simonson printed a letter a couple of issues later from a reader who suggested that readers could put together a list of what they considered “official” appearances of Doom.

This, soon, though, like a game of “telephone,” evolved into the notion that Simonson, himself, had put together such a list.

This idea was talked about so often in fandom that here, at Comics Should Be Good, I referenced “the list.”

Simonson wrote to me about the list, explaining that he had never, in fact, written any such list. He added the amusing joke, “I may have to foster the notion of such a list and at the appropriate time somewhere down the line, produce the list, and then try to sell it on eBay.”

He also expressed his bemusement at having his own “urban legend.” The notion then hit me that there were plenty of such misinformation bandied about comic fandom, especially since the advent of the internet, so a series where I debunk or confirm these “urban legends” would be pretty neat.

And one hundred installments later – here we are.

It’s been fun, no?

Let’s see if I can wrangle up another one hundred!!

Okay, that’s it for this first one hundred!

Feel free to drop off any urban legends you’d like to see featured!


And one hundred installments later – here we are.

It’s been fun, no?

Yes it is, it’s the vile evil lure that, well, lured me to this blog in the first place and now forces me to spend precious time away from my actual tasks at my job every day! Damn you Cronin!

Congratulations and good luck on the next 100.

Congrats and keep em coming!

I would point out that the phrasing of your entry makes it sound like “Doom-Bots” were Simonson’s invention, which I’m sure wasn’t what you intended at all. The idea Simonson introduced was that _most_ of Doom’s appearances have been Doom-Bots–some of his dialogue seems to give the impression that he hasn’t seen the FF since the early Lee/Kirby days, although it’s left very much ambiguous.

Congrats on reaching such a great milestone! I would still like to know if there is any truth to a rumor that years ago, during his short stint on the Avengers, Barry Windsor Smith inked a story using a ball point pen?

Congets and here’s to 100 more. I always enjoy reading these every week.


And those are all fun creator contributions. It was nice of them to lend their insight and wit to the celebration of this milestone.

No offense to Jay Faerber, who I’m sure is a fine writer, but those Teen Titans pitches are BETTER than what wound up in the book?


Yeah, I had such high hopes for Faerber’s run on the Titans from what I had read. The Titans DID have a mission statement, one that had been established from the first issue – training some members of the next generation of heroes, which included Argent and Damage, while also serving as role models for that generation who weren’t a part of the team.

It’s a pity he never got to use his original plans instead of the annoying DEO kids.

this is the first thing i read every friday morning. not my email, not the news, THIS. keep it up!

That may be, Lewis. I don’t know since I never read that series. What I’m saying is that those pitches were not very good. So if they were better than what came out, I’m really glad I didn’t read the book.

Congrats on one hundred!

Synchronicity rules the universe department: on Monday I did an extensive Doctor Doom post, and I programmed a pop-up alt-tag on an image of Doom walking through his leder-hosen populace with a Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang reference.

I was unaware of it completely, but now I must read that issue of Marvel Adventures!

Here’s to several hundred more! And make mine “Comics Should Be Good!”

Hey congrats on hitting the triple digits!

I have a suggestion for a CBULR, and that was there really controversy surrounding the appearance of Doctor Doom and Magneto, two prominent Marvel villains, in the 9-11 themed “Amazing Spider-Man 477″ AKA The Black Issue.

Congratulations on the 100th edition. I totally forgot about the Dr. Doom legend! I’ve really enjoyed your work on the first 100 and can’t wait to see the next 100!

Chris Giarrusso was a nice guy when I interviewd him a couple of years ago.


But who is Scorpion’s real father?

Peter David, who wrote Scorpion into the Hulk series, made a suggestion that hasn’t yet been contradicted (although the question has been raised on Marvel’s official profile of her):


Congrats on the milestone and let me join those who say I would GLADLY buy a collection of these tales – Lulu.com maybe?

Here’s another who was first lured in unsuspecting by this column…and was forced to stick around on account of all the ambient goodness within and surrounding.

Congratulations, especially on a most excellent 100th celebration.

Thanks for doing this, I really enjoy the column and it was a real kick to see my name in it a couple of times. Keep up the good work!

Flush it all away

April 27, 2007 at 4:53 pm

Happy 100th. This has been a tremendously enjoyable series, and I hope there’s many more to come. Thanks for all the work you’ve put into it.

The urban legend about Walt Simonson and the Doom-bots
was interesting, except that before Simonson’s run,
John Byrne had his run on the title, and while doing conventions at the time, he explained that he had created a number of Doom-bots. One for each “bad Doctor Doom” story that had been done.

I’m sure that Byrne and Simonson are buds, so Walt was probably following the tradition that had been set up.


Sorry, folks, didn’t mean to give the impression that Simonson invented the Doom-Bot. I added a bit to make that clear.

Besides that, thanks for all the kind words, folks!

you know, “yay” for Simonson and all, but yeesh! Did Dr. Doom step out for a minute and have the Chameleon come in and read his lines for that one panel, there? And is he wearing a dickie?

You know, it’s terrible that Brian has to resort to a fill-in on such an epic number…

(Congratulations on 100, dude. Here’s to 100 more. Rock on.)

those Teen Titans pitches are BETTER than what wound up in the book?

Paul: Yes, yes they are.

You only have to compare The Titans to Noble Causes — particularly the first three mini-series, which benefit from tighter plotting than the current ~12-issue arc structure — to see that Jay Faerber really can write (though my favorite of his work is the Firebirds one-shot). But that run on The Titans was terrible.

When I read that things like the DEO kids and the infamous Jesse Quick Behaving Badly story were editorial in origin, things started to make sense.

I don’t understand why editorial at Marvel wouldn’t go with the idea of the new Scorpion being the offspring of Viper and Silver Samurai – after all they are hardly overused characters, and even if they were its still a lame reason. Spider-Man and Wolverine are so over exposed that I wonder when they have time to take a potty break. Honestly I think the teen Scorpion would have been a more interesting character if she had roots planted deeply in the Marvel U – same as X-23.

Andy Vaughn’s suggestion of a future installment is a wonderful indea: did BWS really use a ballpoint pen to ink an issue? As a fellow artist I’m hella curious to find that out.

Keep the Comic-Book Urban Legends coming! I have enjoyed every installment I have read. I would like to see some of the lists of Dr Doom “appearances” that could be best explained as Doombot imposters. There is an old issue of Cloak and Dagger that would seem appropriately written off (who wants to see Marvel’s biggest bad-guy taken out by them?)

This is the column that got me hooked on CBR. This is all great stuff, so THANK YOU!

I don’t understand why editorial at Marvel wouldn’t go with the idea of the new Scorpion being the offspring of Viper and Silver Samurai

I can see at least one problem with the idea — Van Lente seems to think that the Viper has “venom powers” and naturally (and heritable) green hair.

Scorpion was hinted at being the daughter of the Hulkin Peter David’s run but what peter David didn’t take itno account is that (I BELIEVE) Fred Van lente once said in an interview that she was meant to be half-asian. Her mother is Italian and unless Bruce Banner has been revealed to have been born as Bruko Bannekara then I don’t believe he is Asian. Then again it could just be a giant retc-on to her ethnicity to say that she’s Bruce’s daughter.

Also the hair was black before she got her powers and wa smuch greener after, leading one to believe that the venom in her body tinged her hair.

Anyways, just my ideas. I looked into it a bit when I intended on playing Carmilla for an RPG so this is just my two cents. That’s two cents canadian too,s o it’s not worth as much.^_^

So despite him not being able to write it as such as the time, is there any reason that Scorpion II couldn’t still be (unknowingly) the daughter of Viper and Silver Samurai? (I haven’t followed the character at all.)

And when will she appear in either Runaways or Loners? (Since New X-Men is kind of full up and Young Avengers may never show up again until the character turns 30.)

Walt is a class act all the way – I thought his run was up there with Stan & Jack’s, and Byrne’s, as well. As an Englehart fan, I just wish he’d had a more stable art team throughout his run.

As far as the Doom/not Doom list…let’s hear it! Which Doom appearances are red herrings? X-Men #145-147, for example, qualifies, yes?

X-men #145-147 and 198 is exactly the reason Byrne came up with the doombot as a substitute for badly characterized Doom appearances. In fantastic Four #288 (or 289) he brought back the Dr. Doom from the Secret Wars and destroyed the Doombot that recieved a slap from Arcade. Simonson brilliantly expanded on this idea, and explained away some of the horrible Issues between his and Byrns run.


August 8, 2014 at 11:43 am

I know this is waaayyy after the fact, but…

“John Byrne had his run on the title, and while doing conventions at the time, he explained that he had created a number of Doom-bots.”

“Sorry, folks, didn’t mean to give the impression that Simonson invented the Doom-Bot. I added a bit to make that clear.”

Ed’s comment and the article as it now stands make it seem like Byrne was the one who invented the concept of the Doom-bot. But I’d tend to argue that’s not even necessarily the case, considering Doom’s VERY FIRST APPEARANCE ends with the revelation that “Hey! It’s nothin’ but a ROBOT!” when Thing goes to beat the crap out of him at the end of the story.

Arguably, I’d say the idea that Doom has tons of Doom-bots who can easily be mistaken for the real Doom was FIRST established by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, and later additions were more expansions on that theme (ie, being able to dismiss appearances you dislike by retconning a given Doom into being a Doombot) rather than true innovations.

Which is not to diminish the idea itself, but to emphasize that Byrne was probably playing with ideas that already existed in the setting rather than introducing an entirely new idea.

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