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CSBG Archive

Top Five Worst Superhero Marriages

TOP FIVE WEEK CONTINUES (check here to see an archive of all the top five lists featured so far)!

Here are the top five worst marriages involving at least one superhero. Enjoy!

5. Tempest and Dolphin

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So, Tempest (the former Aqualad) steals Aquaman’s girlfriend, Dolphin, from Aquaman. That’s fair enough. No big deal.

But then Garth accidentally knocks her up, and freaks out over the situation, while Dolphin is sitting around all “I hope he marries me!” Finally, he decides to marry her before their baby is born, and it was all so awkward, especially in the pages of Titans, where Dolphin ends up leaving him.

4. Namor and Marrina

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What a bizarre marriage this was.

They didn’t even get to have their wedding featured on a cover (it was the 25th Anniversary Month where characters had their faces on the covers)!!

3. Johnny Storm and Alicia Masters

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I really enjoyed the Johnny Storm/Alicia Masters relationship in John Byrne’s Fantastic Four. It wasn’t like Alicia was cheating on Ben or anything, as he was on Battleworld getting it on with ladies there.

It was just a nice, slowly evolving, realistic portrayal of a new relationship. Outside of Bill Loebs and Mark Waid on the Wally West/Linda Park relationship, this is probably the best evolution of a relationship that I’ve seen in comics.

But Johnny was just way too young to be getting married. Maybe EVENTUALLY, but not in Fantastic Four #300!

2. Donna Troy and Terry Long

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This was just all sorts of wrong.

Donna’s, like, 22…Terry is a divorced college professor in his mid-30s (at least)

Chris Sims detailed all that is wrong about this relationship (including the creepiest factor – it was written as though we, the readers, should NOT be creeped out by it) in a hilarious post at his blog here.

The only reason it isn’t #1 is because I think there probably ARE a decent number of guys like Terry Long in real life who marry their young students, so at least it is sorta realistic.

1. Quicksilver and Crystal

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This match-up, though, just made no sense whatsoever.

The characters aren’t similar.

The characters aren’t good together.

They had marital problems, like, RIGHT AWAY.

And worst of all, they stayed married for, like, twenty-five years, when EVERYONE, the characters included, realized how dumb the marriage was.

Just ridiculous.

That’s my list! Agree? Disagree? Let me know!

69 Comments

Mine.

1. Spider-man
2. Superman (But I’m working under a different definition of “worst” I think.)
3. Tempest and Dolphin were married? Holy crap!
4. Namor and Marrina too? Why were neither of these ever mentioned again.
5. Oh.
6. Yeah, poor Crystal and Quicksilver. It I remember right there wasn’t any build up for this, either. They meet and, like, 4 pages later tying the knot.

Marrina died about five minutes after the wedding, that’s why it isn’t mentioned much.

Funny thing is, it makes Namor a widower TWICE (his first wife, Dorma, died on the wedding day!).

With the other marriages here, I would say that it’s not a good idea for underwater heroes to marry…

And I must add that the Donna Troy marriage story was quite dull – even for the standards of wedding stories! And Terry Long was a total Mary Sue!

Best,
Hunter (Pedro Bouça)

While not saying he ISN’T a Mary Sue, I hesitate to call him that, because if he WAS a Mary Sue, then Marv Wolfman comes off looking really, really bad.

So I’m willing to give Wolfman the benefit of the doubt. Because otherwise…wowsa.

And worst of all, they stayed married for, like, twenty-five years, when EVERYONE, the characters included, realized how dumb the marriage was.

Seems like a pretty realistic story for some couples…

What no Storm or Black Panther? C’mon. Worst. Marriage. Ever.

Nah, Terry Long/Donna is okay. A 10 year age diff? Eh. You want kinda crazy, come to Japan, where I know more than a couple high school teachers who ended up marrying some of their former students. Well after graduation, but still… kinda kooky.

My vote goes to Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne, and not just for the reason you think. He was about twice her age when they started out (he was an associate of her father’s!), and she was so infatuated with him that she let him perform experiments on her. She spends most of her time in early Avengers issue flirting with Thor, or Cap, or Tony, just to get Hank to notice she’s alive. Hank never comes off as interested in her at all. She only got him to marry her because he was suffering a nervous breakdown at the time! Then, of course, Hank’s mental condition got worse, and we all know about that. And then, for the next 20 years, they keep breaking up, getting back together, breaking up again, depending on whether the writer likes them or not. Talk about dysfunctional!

Andrew Collins

May 31, 2007 at 4:56 am

Yep, you do get those kind of May/December marriages all the time. A college professor of mine married one of his students right after she graduated. He was early/mid 30′s, she was 23. They’re still happily married and have 2 kids now.

I also love how unnaturally happy Aquaman looks on that wedding cover. “You stole my girlfriend and impregnated her…well…Mazel Tov!” That whole plot twist just seemed a little to Jerry Springer for my liking, though I like Dolphin as a character. I didn’t realized she left him though. We’ve seen so little of Garth since Infinite Crisis, I wasn’t sure what his status was…

“Funny thing is, it makes Namor a widower TWICE”

That is pretty funny.

“What no Storm or Black Panther? C’mon. Worst. Marriage. Ever.”

Word.

That student/teacher thing isn’t necessarily creepy and a 10 year age gap isn’t that big when both people are past 20. What makes it so awful is that Terry Long is just an utter creep, click the link to Chris Sims’ blog if you’re not convinced.

Mike Loughlin

May 31, 2007 at 5:57 am

Scott Summers & Madelynne (sp?) Pryor: “Well, my girlfriend’s dead, and you look just like her. Let’s get married! By the way, you’re not going to turn out to be her crazy-ass clone, are you?”

Wolverine & Viper: Yes, it happened. Luckily, the brain cells that contain the why and how are long dead.

Ray Palmer and Jean Loring?

Vision and The Scarlet Witch for me.

You know, considering how he wasn’t really a…person. Seemed like a direct violation of some sort of Law of Robotics. Maybe Pym’s Law. Or Ultron’s Law. Or Matt Groening’s Law after that episode of Futurama where Fry makes out with his Lucy Liu-bot all day. And yes, I’m well aware that Futurama was broadcast well after the Vis/Wanda wedding, but I wanted to make a bad joke.

Also, what does a spout of mutual domestic violence have to do with Alpha Flight?

I must be one of the only readers who liked the wedding of Tempest and Dolphin.

Crystal and Quicksilver have been on again, off again thing for years now. I’m glad the writers finally seem to have bit the bullet and split them up for good. In the end, they both just have too much baggage to make a marriage work… and, yes, I’m talking about them as if they were real people. Oh, boy, that’s not good!

Terry Long reminds me a bit of one of my college professors who mid-semester ran off to Colorado with his girlfriend, leaving behind his wife & one year old daughter. That left more than a few people shaking their heads.

Black Lutefisk

May 31, 2007 at 7:26 am

Nothing unusual at all about teacher/post student marriages. Happened with my drama teacher in high school, and they did terrifically. My fiancee’s 12 years older than me. It’s a lot more common as people live longer.

I loved the Donna Troy and Terry Long relationship. The age difference didn’t matter to me at all and still doesn’t. To be honest, Brian, I’m a little offended–speaking as someone who is about to marry someone older by a similar gap– at the assumption that it’s somehow icky to find people older than them attractive. People fall in love with older men/women and marry them. Deal with it. (That said, I will grant that the dynamic of a teacher dating a former student does grate a bit nowadays more than it did in 1982).

I thought the relationship was totally honest and open and had nothing to do with Donna’s life as Wonder Girl which at the time made it (and still makes it) unique. They were a great couple. He was a bit Alan Alda sensitive guy but it was the 1980s and that sort of thing was more popular. They seemed like a couple, rather than a plot complication, which is how most Superhero girl/boyfriends tend to be viewed as.

“And worst of all, they stayed married for, like, twenty-five years, when EVERYONE, the characters included, realized how dumb the marriage was.”

That happen´s in real life – a lot. People hate each other and stay married for years.

Ray Palmer and Jean Loring?

Up until the part where she goes on a killing spree instead of, you know, sending Ray flowers or just asking him to consider reconciling, I would have disagreed with you. I thought it was one of the more interesting marriages in comics (not successful, of course, but interesting). Shame about the, you know, killing spree and all.

That student/teacher thing isn’t necessarily creepy and a 10 year age gap isn’t that big when both people are past 20.

I really apprecite your acknowledging this.

What makes it so awful is that Terry Long is just an utter creep, click the link to Chris Sims’ blog if you’re not convinced.

It’s a funny blog, but it virtually defines the concept of an ad hominem argument.

Terry Long… one of comic’s best beards (FYI that’s how he got Donna Troy)

Admittedly, a past girlfriend of mine was nearly nine years older than me, and we got along great… probably because she acted like she was almost ten years younger than she actually was :)

The Kirbydotter

May 31, 2007 at 8:13 am

Oh boy! Is your list of of the worst possible selection!

Terry Long and Donna Troy was a good and touching story by classic team of Perz and Wolfman. It’s also a classic because contrary to the formula that prevailed in superheroes wedding before that one, it didn,t feature a super-villain trying to mess up the thing. It’s the only one that truly belongs in the list.

Well okay, I would maybe add the Quicksilver and Crystal wedding in the lot too.

The BEST wedding ever was Sue and Reed in a Fantastic Four Annual ! First it was the first story of this type (outside of Weiseinger era imaginary stories of Lois and Superman extrapolations). Everyone was at Sue and Reed! Even the Beatles for god’s sakes! I can’t believe everyone missed that one!

The wedding that was almost was, Wolverine and Mariko was also a great one and should make the list even if the wedding didn’t go through all the way. After all, it still is a classic wedding story, beginning in the Wolverine mini-series drawn by Frank Miller, then in the PAul Smith era of Uncanny X-Men (back when there was only one X-title!).

The Mantis and Swordsman is also a Marvel classic.

Vision and Scarlet Witch was an important wedding because of all the storylines that were generated by it: the two limited series, the West Coast Avengers revival of the original Human Torch during John Byrne’s excellent run (with the white Vision), etc.

“Johnny Storm and Alicia Masters”

Wasn’t his marriage technically actually to Lyja the Skrull?

Caliban and Kitty Pryde…did they ever tie the knot?
Now that was creepy.

He said worst marriages, not worst wedding stories.

I don’t find the Terry Long/Donna Troy deal unrealistic in terms of it happening in reality (I teach college and can think of no less than 3 circumstances of much older [50's+] faculty being married to younger former students…as far as I know, they have also lasted as marriages).

I think the problem with it as a whole (and why they eventually permanently offed Terry and kid), was that it dragged down the Donna Troy character. She’s supposed to be a young super-goddess and all around appealing (to the male audience) character. Marriage to a 30 year old college prof and having a kid screams the opposite of that and makes the character older than the people writing her want her to be so that she has appeal to the audience (and yes, I’m talking sex appeal; right or wrong, it seems like all female superheroes/supervillains need it in order to be commercial successes on some level…this kind of storyline marriage situation takes that from the character).

So, in short, good for reality, but bad in the comics…

Excellent topic!

Allow me to add to the pile of unsolicited suggestions to add Ray Palmer and Jean Loring to that list.

The Hawkeye and Mockingbird marriage never made much sense either although Steve Englehart did generate some decent stories with it in West Coast Avengers.

And I’ll have to disagree with the commenters who want Vision and Scarlet Witch added to the list. That was the best super-hero marriage by far – until current writers ran out of real ideas for the two characters and put them out to pasture.

Another great married couple is Punch and Jewelee.

Mark_Lucas_TBP

May 31, 2007 at 9:44 am

When I heard about the Storm/Black Panther marriage, I thought, what alternate reality did they pull that from. A couple of months ago I was reading Essential X-Men (Vol. II I think) and in one panel Storm is getting nostalgic for the romantic days she used to spend with Prince T’Challa of Wakanda. I presume this was in her teenage years. I was surprised that there was actually a little history. Just one panel.

Punch and Jewelee were a pretty awesome married couple. Punch’s recent death in Checkmate only reinforces that.

Everyone else said the Storm/Black Panther thing, so I guess I won’t.

I do enjoy these tops five lists. It would be really nice if they continued. They don’t have to be daily.

Cyclops and Madelyn Pryor.
That one was just messed up since the beginning

I’d love to see a weekly top five list. I hope it becomes a semi-regular feature.

How about the old Legion of Superheroes, where Colossal Boy married the Durlan who’d helped kidnap and impersonate Shrinking Violet for the better part of what, a year?

“Oh Violet, I love you!”
“Oh Gim, I love you … but I’m an alien shapeshifter who’s been pretending to be Violet!”
“I still love you!”

Yeah. Wacky.

Wolverine and Viper. Marriage as a horribly stupid plot device.

I think the problem with it as a whole (and why they eventually permanently offed Terry and kid), was that it dragged down the Donna Troy character. She’s supposed to be a young super-goddess and all around appealing (to the male audience) character.

I don’t think super-goddess is Donna at all, or it wasn’t in the initial run of New Teen Titans*, where Donna described herself as the “Mary Tyler Moore of the superhero set” and was established as a pretty normal woman with a career and a life who, only by the grace of Wonder Woman rescuing her was granted an Amazonian heritage via adoption.

I don’t think it dragged her down at all. While Raven was the fallen angel figure and Starfire was the warrior princess, Wonder Girl was the likable girl next door of the Teen Titans, and I thought Terry was a good match at the time.

*I have to caveat that all my comments are based on only the Wolfman/Perez run of New Teen Titans from 1980-1984…what Wolfman did afterward I have no idea.

“I really enjoyed the Johnny Storm/Alicia Masters relationship in John Byrne’s Fantastic Four. It wasn’t like Alicia was cheating on Ben or anything, as he was on Battleworld getting it on with ladies there.

It was just a nice, slowly evolving, realistic portrayal of a new relationship. Outside of Bill Loebs and Mark Waid on the Wally West/Linda Park relationship, this is probably the best evolution of a relationship that I’ve seen in comics.”

You see, while I agree with you that the Marriage didn’t work, I always thought the concept of Johnny with Alicia as forced and made no sense. Alicia always came across (to me) as a woman in her late 20′s early 30′s, a little younger than Ben. And how many times have you seen a tight group of friends have a relationship break up only to have two others in the group pair off, an NO ONE think it’s wrong. It would be uncomfortable for all involved.

IMO, Not only did Byrne mishandle the characters of Johnny & Alicia with their relationship, but he also mishandled how Reed and Sue reacted and accepted it.

BUT- I think the revelation that it wasn’t Alicia, but a Skrull, was a stroke of genius! Think about it, a race of beings with an incredible spying weapon (taking on the forms of others) who are constantly thwarted by these damn four humans! What better way to infiltrate their ranks then by taking the place of a non-powered friend?

Too bad they never realised the potential of that story line.

>>
*I have to caveat that all my comments are based on only the Wolfman/Perez run of New Teen Titans from 1980-1984…what Wolfman did afterward I have no idea.>>

This is interesting, because my take on her is based on the later mid to late 90′s New Titans/New Teen Titans/Darkstars/Green Lantern Donna Troy, where my impressions were that they were doing everything they could to make her appear young, hip, etc. (i.e., pairing her with the young, new Green Lantern, giving her identity a new makeover with the Darkstars, putting her on a team with newer, younger heroes, and so on). This makes sense to me if they wanted to make the character fresh again to a teen audience.

I came to Titans in the very last part of the Donna Troy/Terry Long marriage, but it never seemed like it worked from what I was reading of it in terms of storytelling (but then, it’s been a while since I read those issues as well). That they went out of the way to make Long deader than a doornail and then pretty much drop him from the conversation afterward in a business that prides itself on how fast they can bring back dead characters probably cements that they wanted her away from that identity.

But then, you’re seeing it almost a decade earlier than I did, so maybe it worked at one point in time and then ran out of steam. Can we have “Comic Plots That Were Good Before Going Bad?”

Starfire/Ryand’r has to be on this list, doesn’t it?

Also Captain Atom/Plastique

Michael:

Thank you for mentioning Colossal Boy and the Durlan female. I don’t have those issues anymore, and my description would have been really messed up.

Since for awhile there, some folks thought the topic was wedding ceremonies rather than general marriages, I’d like to mention the one in the original DOOM PATROL for Elasti–Girl and Mento. It reeks of being intended as just an opening short that ends with Rita changing her mind, but there’s a caption box clearly tacked on to the bottom of the last panel of “Chapter 1″ with a completely different lettering style and then the story continues on as an issue–length “novel” culminating with their nuptials. Since the back–up series there (ROBOTMANIAC UNCHAINED) was by the exact same creative team (Arnold Drake and Bruno Premiani), deadline problems don’t make sense—they could have recreated the lost–in–the–mails–or–whatever ROBOT pages quicker than they could have created the wedding story from scratch (surely there was another copy of the script that could have been sent to Bruno quicker than Arnold could have fashioned an entirely new plot).

Why do you think Johnny was way too young to be getting married? He was in college when Franklin was born (probably in between his freshman and sophomore year, since Wyatt Wingfoot was back at the reservation bumping into Toomazooma and Johnny wasn’t attending classes around then), and Franklin was easily five years old by FF #300 (possibly older, but Franklin seems to have taken a huge age jump somewhere between Tom DeFalco’s run and now, so it’s difficult to be sure exactly when he went from being 4 1/2 to being about 10)…that’d make Johnny about 24 or 25 when he got married. Which is a perfectly reasonable age to be tying the knot.

About the Tom DeFalco “She was a Skrull all along” retcon, well…the less said the better.

Ted, I considered Elasti-Girl and Mento, definitely. They probably should have been an honorable mention.

Andrew Collins

May 31, 2007 at 3:32 pm

“This is interesting, because my take on her is based on the later mid to late 90’s New Titans/New Teen Titans/Darkstars/Green Lantern Donna Troy, where my impressions were that they were doing everything they could to make her appear young, hip, etc. (i.e., pairing her with the young, new Green Lantern”

Something they apparently still are trying to do. I noticed Donna and Kyle have been prominently paired together in some of DC’s recent Countdown related ads. I never read the Kyle GL issues, but this relationship always bugged me for some reason. Maybe it’s because she’s been around so much longer as a character, but I tend to think of her as being several years older than Kyle for some reason. Just can’t seem to shake that perception of her and them as a couple…

Andrew Collins

May 31, 2007 at 3:34 pm

“Also Captain Atom/Plastique ”

The problem here was that they got married in the pages of Captain Atom then promptly disappeared off the face of the Earth. I don’t remember ever even seeing them together in a comic. Next thing I knew, they were divorced. The divorce didn’t surprise me given how different their backgrounds were as characters, but their relationship in Cap’s old solo book was always pretty well handled. They fell in love over time in a very ‘organic’ way rather than being forced together by some editorial dictate (or at least it read that way to me as a reader.)

Yeah, I didn’t have a problem with Cap’s marriage, except that Plastique was never really referenced in Justice League Europe.

Maybe it’s because she’s been around so much longer as a character, but I tend to think of her as being several years older than Kyle for some reason.

It’s because of the awful idea to marry her to Terry Long, thereby making the character appear much older.

The same thing happened to Wally West and Tempest, but at least in Wally’s case, it was spread out over, like, 100 issues of the Flash, but even then, it ultimately led to Wally West, who’s, like, 25 years old in the comics, being seen as “too old” to be the Flash anymore, leading to Bart Allen taking over the role.

The marriage to Terry, though, basically just ended any forward movement for Donna as a character, making her virtually unusable for about six years (for crying out loud, she was, like, 23, and she was the “den mother” of the Team Titans! At 23 years old!! 23 years old, no powers and the den mother of a team of “young” heroes, who were all, of course, MUCH younger than the 23-yeard old matriarch – blech!), until they divorced her from Terry.

Granted, I think the divorce was handled well, and Terry’s death was even worse, but lordy, was I happy to see her apart from Terry.

John Trumbull

May 31, 2007 at 5:00 pm

Actually, I think Donna Troy wasn’t more than 19 or 20 when she married Terry Long. Which makes it extra creepy.

I’m surpised that no one’s nominated the Peter Parker-Mary Jane marriage yet.

I think she was 19 when they met, but I think she was older by the time they married. Another problem with the Wolfman/Perez Titans…they had the characters age too much (or at least seemingly age).

And someone nominated Peter and MJ in the very first comment! :)

I say Superman/Lois Lane.

Superman works best as an unresolved love triangle between Supes, Clark Kent and Lois Lane.

Spider-man 3 got me thinking why the Peter/MJ marriage doesn’t work. She’s not really in love with Peter. She loves Spider-man.

I’m surprised the Pyms haven’t been mentioned. But then again their dysfunction ahs been kind of entertaining.

Very glad that I have absolutely no clue about this Wolverine-Viper marriage.

Supergirl-Salkor is conspicuously missing here!

Donna Troy was definitely 19 when she married. She specifically mentions the fact in the wedding issue. That said, the worst Titan marriage has to be Starfire and her ill-fated wedding to Karras because those issues really spelled the decline of the Wolfman-scripted Titans and put an end to any momentum in the Nightwing/Starfire romance.

Hawkeye and Mockingbird was the worst. Hawkeye? Married? That’s just wrong.

hahaha… when I saw this title I was like “Oh… Crystal and Quicksilver!”

Clark and Lois? Peter and MJ? How could anyone seriously consider those bad marriages?

Sure, the Clark/Lois/Supes “love triangle” worked, ages ago, but these days the idea of it is just dumb. It was a great plot contrivance, when you had to publish a story every month about Lois tricking Superman into marrying her, but now that she actually acts like an adult? Doesn’t hold up.

Having read back issues, it wasn’t Spider-Man MJ loved, but specifically Peter Parker. On the other hand, Felicia Hardy loved Spider-Man, but couldn’t stand Pete. So yeah, that marriage makes sense, too – unless you’re Joe Quesada, apparently.

Ray Palmer and Jean Loring actually had a pretty good marriage – the problems came from the parts where they weren’t together. Their dating years were TERRIBLE, and we all know what happened when they separated.

Is there any reason to nominate Ororo and T’Challa, other than it being hip to hate it? We’ve barely seen any payoff from it yet, and what we HAVE seen has been good. Was the story rushed? Yes, very. And? That doesn’t make the idea bad by itself.

That said, I second (third?) the idea of Cyclops/Maddie Pryor at least getting an honorable mention.

How about the old Legion of Superheroes, where Colossal Boy married the Durlan who’d helped kidnap and impersonate Shrinking Violet for the better part of what, a year?

Funny how much that sounds like Johnny and Alicia/Lyja…

Those were basically my thinkings regarding Clark/Lois, Peter/MJ, Ororo/T’Challa and Ray/Jean, yo!

OK so maybe we haven’t seen the ‘payoff’ for the Storm/BP marriage and we probably should give it the benefit of the doubt it deserves, but (yeah you knew that was coming) saying that what we have seen is actually good? Not so sure.

Firstly, as you said, it was a fast and nasty wedding with no seeming connection between the two except they’re both black and one obscure panel from way back when. But Marvel decided to retcon a history for them, so great, as far as that goes I’m fine with the marriage, even though it was a cheap grab for readers (nothing wrong with that) which kinda backfired because nobody seemed to really care about it, despite the dubious civil war tie-in.

Now, maybe my knowledge of both characters is a little limited, in fact I could care less about them really, but as far a I can tell the marriage has not added to either character in any significant way except to create a new status quo for them that in my mind makes Storm (who was, to me at least, a more recognizable character than Black Panther) a far less interesting character by subjugating her to the role of Black Panther’s wife (although admittedly that may be my own misogynistic beliefs biasing my reading of the story, who knows?)

But that’s just my belief and as you say it’s probably to soon to tell whether we’ll get some good stories out of it. And while all I have really read is McDuffie’s FF(which I’m quite enjoying in fact), but which might not make me the best one to judge, it just feels so contrived, to me at least that I reserve my belief that it was a bad decision until proven otherwise. So if that makes me hip, well then, so be it.

Jeez sorry about the rambling.. it’s tired and I’m late or whatever.

Mike Loughlin

June 1, 2007 at 5:55 am

The Black Panther/ Storm connection was fleshed out in Marvel Team-up 100… as a 10-page back-up. So, of course, they blow that up into a deep relationship that blossoms into marraige.

I’m not against their marraige, but it seems out of the blue. I liked what I read in Fantastic Four.

My basic problems with the Storm/BP marriage are as follows:

1) They’re too damn similar in temperament, both of them basically omnicompetent Noble Royalty types, albeit perhaps by different routes. (T’Challa is a Kirby idealized supertype at root and Ororo a Claremontian superwoman.) More critically, under Hudlin, both of them have the central problem of being idealized characters with no interesting flaws or character faults.

2) The current writers, like a lot of people in America, frankly, seem to be of the tacit opinion that there’s this big, uniform place called “Africa” where the indigenous people share a continent-wide culture. Sure, Storm’s from a small village in Kenya by way of Westchester and T’Challa’s part of an isolationist super-culture in central Africa, but those places are all the same anyway to the writers. In fairness, this is in no small part a problem inherited from the Claremont story upon which Marvel based all of this stuff.

3) For all the talk of a “payoff,” there really doesn’t seem to be much to..well…pay off. The wedding is the payoff. Quite what brilliant tale is supposed to proceed from two characters, one of them a fairly bland one (Storm) sharing a happy, simpatico marriage remains quite unclear to me. You can have them tour the world looking cool together for awhile (as is being done now), and you can have villains attack them, but there’s just not much of interest coming from within the marriage itself. And the main reason for that is that the ideal marriage they’ve been written into is the END of a story, not the setup for one.

Dan (other Dan)

June 1, 2007 at 12:00 pm

Why is Johnny Storm too young to get married? People get married in their teens all the time. Do you mean too young in the sense that it’s limiting from a storytelling perspective? I certainly didn’t glean that from the post at all; it seemed to me more of a ‘kids shouldn’t be getting married’ thing than anything.

Well, yeah, I’d say that teenagers shouldn’t be getting married.

Omar: I agree with most of your points, but come to a different conclusion. Go figure. Storm is indeed a very bland character – she could be one of the most interesting, if given the chance. If nothing else, the marriage has taken her from being someone to fill X-Book group shots with and put her front and center for creators to use and fans to pay attention to. That, in itself, is good. Now it falls to the writers to take advantage of that sudden boost in popularity, to make something good from here on out. If they squander it, that won’t make the marriage a “bad” one, just disappointing…

I could be misremembering, but I’m pretty sure that Donna Troy was *not* a former student of Terry Long’s. The first time we see Terry, Donna’s also established as a well regarded and experienced full time photographer with her own business (or partnership). There was no indication that she’d been attending college, and as Terry was a literature prof, she wouldn’t have been learning photography from him.

At one point, Terry Long says he’s 29 (the line is something like, “Hey, 29′s not middle-aged…is it?” — why I remember this, I have NO clue, but there it is); I’m pretty sure Donna isn’t supposed to be any older than 21. If she were 22, though, this wouldn’t exactly be a crazy, unheard of age gap. There are other, better reasons to find Terry (aka “Marvy Sue”) objectionable. The chest hair, for one. *shudder*

Dan (other Dan) said:

“Why is Johnny Storm too young to get married? People get married in their teens all the time.”

As I pointed out already, Johnny wasn’t in his teens when he married Alicia. He was already out of high school when Franklin was born, and Franklin was five or six years old when Johnny got married, so Johnny has to be in his early-to-mid twenties when that wedding takes place.

What about Henry Pym and Janet Van Dyne (wasp)?

I think Janet Van Dyne/ Hank Pym and Scott Summers/ Madalyne Pryor both warrant mentions.

I would leave Wolverine/Viper off the list because no one really acknowledged the marriage- it was just a legal move Viper blackmailed him into. plus, as I recall, the next time they met he forced her to annul it.

What creeps you out about the DOnna/Terri relationship.
The fact that he was her professor or the age difference.

She’s an adult who has the life experience of say saving the universe.

I’m just curious.

For me it was the fact that Terry was always ogling Starfire’s rack, and that he seemed way too into the fact that he was dating his hot student. He sure seemed to talk about it a lot.

It didn’t help that the open shirts and ugly medallions he wore made him look like a skeevy cheeseball.

Of Crystal and Pietros Marriage you wrote:

“The characters aren’t similar.

The characters aren’t good together.

They had marital problems, like, RIGHT AWAY.”

Kind of like a lot of real people.

was wondering if terry long and donna marriage would make the cut given how fans of donna went nuts with dislike over terry being way older then donna but that wedding actully was like real life. for some teachers do marry their former students .

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