Now she has a story of her own.

And she is all grown up and sexy. She filled in.

Maybe the sleeves and the bolt are indications of maturity, that bit of wisdom and seriousness that comes from experience, seeing the other side, knowing what happens when things go wrong. She went t for herself was not the most important thing in the world, That what she wreally wanted was the power to help people, make the world better, and she is stronger for it. The gods realized this and gave her power back. I figured/was hoping something like this would happen.

And lord knows I just LOVED that the goddess Thalia became the patron of Harley Quinn, who has now reformed and been "powered up" as a comedic Amazon superhero!

http://www.captainmarvelculture.com

Hey didn't didio do a sick and twisted comic with characters supposedly charlie brown and linus worshoping the great pumpkin by killing snoopy in an occult type dark way?

Background. Large stories like 52, Countdown, and Super Groups like JLA, JSA and Teen Titans are there to introduce us to the members of the universe (Multiverse in DC’s case) that the average reader may not have had the chance to get to know as well as Superman, Batman, Green lantern or Flash.
In This Countdown has been a success to me. I had not before the “Seduction of Innocence.” Plot line payed any mind to the Marvel Family or even Captain Marvel. Countdown made me change this, I was told that the Mary Marvel story was the best part of it because it takes her out of her element.
Not knowing what her Element is I picked up as many of the Classic Graphic Novel reprints I could find at my local border and fell in love with the exploits of the Marvel Family.

So after getting to know the original material I sat down and real what has been printed of Countdown.

On Innocence: Mary to spite her inheritance of the Egyptian Pantheon of the powers and having a mind that is clearly being influenced by them manages to shine through with the same Innocence and Naiveté that made her charming to fans from the get go.

That isn’t to say she isn’t “Darker.” She simply wanted some attachment to her old life and got the “Be Careful what you wish for.” solution.

All of her interactions with Zatara show the Innocence in her struggling to win out over the Darker Pantheon she has dawned as “Black Mary”.

This being said. Virginity, Naivete’, and Softness do not equate to Innocence. Only a lack of experience. Superman is by his nature an Innocent Character, But he’s a married man which means him and Lois have most likely had relations. I will ask if that makes him less of a hero?

Mary is going to come out of this a far more deep and wise character for it, Not a boozeing, drug addicted, slut in leather.

That being said. I like the leather outfit it needs a longer skirt.

Judging an Unfinished Product:

Paul Dini has a wonderful track record for both modernizing and keeping to the original spirit of the material. Anyone who wishes to question this needs to go but either the 90’s Batman or Superman cartoons from Borders.

He was also one of the key authors on my favorite Else Worlds. Even if it wasn’t called it. Batman Beyond.

Dini has a plan he has foreshadowed that this is not a going to last.

Read Mary’s Interactions with Billy and Zatara everyone, Including Mary knows that this isn’t right.

/end Rant.

Thank you for you time

About the virginity issue... well, I think that Mary could lose her virginity and remain as pure and good as ever; I don't think that she is supposed to stay a virgin unti 2087, even with the particular space-time continuum that rules the comics universe. On the other hand, I don't think that the conscious decision of Mary of waiting as long as she wants for it has anything stupid or even unreal about it. There are people who prefer to live their lives that way, and I'm not talking about priests and nuns only. The point being, it's something really personal and I would like it to be treated in the comics in a way that represent who Mary is. And I thinj that the little portrait Bgztl (Jack Holt) offers us in his replay really reflects who she is.

-----

Just to add something. Let's not forget that DC comics is in the business of selling comics. And you know? They probably are right now very happy about this, and probably don't care what we all think in the end about what has been done to the character. The are probably just happy to see Mary Marvel being discussed in lots of forums like this one. You know how the saying goes: "There's no such thing as bad publicity".

also lol @ dragondeathlord but only in good fun

http://www.boneville.com/2007/01/12/shazam-production-journal-mary-marvel/

I've used dragondeathlord for over 20 years as a login I like it!I like Dragons And D&D, So TOUGH!

And Yes I think Jerry Ordway Is Just a tad OverRATED! Not to bad theres worse but the mans lazy as a Writer and never thinks any think threw.

PS Told you all I would get Flamed!

What I am saying is how about some normal relationships!(there been none!)Not a good sign of mentell health!

Mr. "dragondeathlord",

We would humbly like to request that you work on improving your spelling, especially at your age. Also, please pick a more age-appropriate name, like "dinosaurdeath'sdoor".

-The Snark Pack

But there a big difference between keeping the creators intent and stagnation there is a WORD CALLED BALANCE.

Back when she was first created ALL COMIC SUPERHEROS WOMEN ACTED JUST LIKE THIS From Lois Lane to Batgirl!!!And Batman used a gun!

BUT FOR MARY MARVEL THERE HAS BEEN NO PROGRESS NONE! She is the poster child foe why wholesome is a stupid joke!And wholesome is not STUPID! Now why I would never want her to stop being who she is I would like to stop being the DC JOKE! How about a Black or Asian Boyfriend Or a Girlfriend(Saying this becouse it's implied on this thread that a Lesbian is some how a sign of corruption! Witch is as bad as it gets and proves the point that the Hero is not only stuck in a Braidy bunch 1960 time warp but got other people thinking that way to!) NOT A GOOD ROLE MODEL FOR YOUNG WOMEN!And women know it and avoid it! She like June Kleaver!)At least Betty and Veronica had a boyfriend Archie!And had Kissed!

What I am saying is how about some normal relationships!(there been none!)Not a good sign of mentell health!

No I do not Want to see Her turn in to the dark knight but in to a Peter parker Venom (he stayed Wholesome threw that but seemed more real in the End!) might be a good shake up and some real guilt might help the character Be more real and become more popular.If nothink else it will get people talking!( WE ARE TALKING ABOUT Mary Marvel THERE FOR IT'S A GOOD IDEAR!
If she stays evil (DC heroes THEY NEVER DO)at least it will be some change at least some and the 1950 mold will be broken and will will still have the new other earth Mary Marvel to enjoy on a EARTH THAT IS IN THE 1950's!

OK I AM READY FOR THE BOOS But I AM OLDER THAN Jerry Ordway. And as I remember there was nothing Whole Some about the 1950's when women were supposed to acted like that! No there wear just as many teen pregnancy's just that the girl could not keep it or they would say she was sister. And there were plenty of gay's but they got married and lied and when my wife was a kid there was a shooting at her school and they just hushed it all up!
And there was a lot more of unreported Rape and child abuse!
Jerry Ordway attempt to turn back the clock is moronic! Comics Did a lot of good !

The real Seduction of the Innocents started not becouse of the book by the same name that claimed Batman and robin were gay But becouse a Congressman (Probably much like Jerry Ordway )was bent out of shape over a comic book story based on a real story he had killed(it was not very WHOLESOME)about two cops that were using there badges to force very young teenagers (some of the girls did not even know it was Sex!)That wear never punished nor lost there badges! Let's here it for the wholesome 1950's!

"Okay, moving on: LonMadnight: I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. Both Marvel and DC have entire lines of comics that are just for kids already. Do you mean to suggest that all or most mainstream comics should be for kids? That’s kinda… dumb, really. "

Kinda not, as that's not what I said. (then again, I no longer post on DC's boards because people insisted on telling me what I said, invariable mangling my message in the process)

What I was saying is that the idea that comics should be mostly not for kids is wrong. I have no problem with a close balance. But it should always be favored to kid-friendly material.

Oh, yes the "Marvel Adventures" and the "Johnny DCs" are out there but the main stream books (and editors) seem to regard them as the little-kid brother they have to drag along because mom said they have to. Those books wouldn't exist if there had been no animated series to inspire them. (Superman Adventures was killed the moment the cartoon was dropped.)

Marvel saw that the animated approach drew readers and followed along. In any case, It can't be regarded as editorial effort to adress a perceived imbalance in content.

Look, let's stay clear on a very touchy point: When we're talking about Characters who fly, lift mountains, fire lasers from thier eyes and talk to fish, It's fantasy, it is in fact absurd fantasy. It can be dressed up with mature sounding dialouge and high-tension drama, but in the end it's all really pretty silly.

McDonald's can dress up the Big Mac all they like, even call it T-bone steak, but it's still hamburger.
And that's what modern comics in general are: hamburger that's being sold as T-bone steak.

And there we are so far. On one hand, plenty has happened. On the other hand, absolutely nothing has. Maybe I like my navel gazing and melodrama too much, but everything feels like it’s going in straight lines, like connect-the-dots, and it feels seriously, seriously lacking. This story, about what’s probably the fall and rise of Mary Marvel, deserves a lot more than it has so far. It’s something that I would have preferred to see in a series of its own, something with a definite beginning, middle and end, plotted out over 25 issues or so.

I want to see Mary feeling lost and betrayed by not having any contact with her fellow Marvels. I want to see Mary going through power withdrawal, like an addict who needs her fix. I wanted to see Mary having actually having to make the conscious choice to take up Black Adams power, not to just have it handed to her. I want to see Mary having to pay a price for her power, and having to keep making choices that slip her closer to the dark side. I want to see Mary overcome that, realize that power isn’t worth it, and reject her power – with whatever price that entails.

I want a basic standard story of temptation and redemption, “I am a Jedi, like my father before me” sort of thing. It’s the difference in Luke Skywalker between the start of A New Hope and the end of Return of the Jedi. He’s still just as earnest, and good, and idealistic (maybe even more idealistic than when he started), but it’s now an idealism that’s been tempted, tempered, and has come out stronger than ever. That’s why my hope is for a Mary Marvel story.

I’m bound to be disappointed.

Anyhow, my problem isn't with Mary going darker, for at least a little while. It's that the story isn't getting the space it needs to be done well, so far as I can see.

The Mary storyline is getting a lot of hype, but again, other than the costume change, we don't know what personality changes come with it, do we? Appreciated Thom Khatt and RachelEvil's comments - we'll have to wait and see what the final outcome is.