The "conclusion" in FF felt like it was a forced and unnecessary epilogue tacked on solely to take yet another shot at Shooter, which to this day is one of the reasons why I think a LOT of the complaints from various artists and writers about his time as EoC is more sour grapes by bitter prima donnas than valid issues. To me, the shots taken by people like Englehart and Byrne don't make Shooter look bad - they make Englehart and Byrne look like petty jerks. And it's hard to take complaints from people as being an accurate representation of what happened when those people reveal themselves to be just as bad (if not worse) than the person they're bashing.

I think Shooter took a lot of crap for things that weren't necessarily his fault, as well as for some decisions he made that were ABSOLUTELY the right call to make in a given situation (but which hurt the feelings of oversensitive "artists"). I find it telling that what I consider to be Marvel's greatest period of creative output took place under his watch, and that the product suffered under his successors.

And Mantis is one of the greatest characters ever created!!!!!

For the worst, look at the FANTASTIC FOUR UNLIMITED quarterly series that ran alongside DeFalco's run. That was pretty painful (watching Herb Trimpe, who at least had previously shown a distinctive drawing style, try to be a Rob Liefeld clone? Oww....).

I agree that Englehart's work when he returned actively to comics in the 1980's didn't seem to live up to what he'd done before. It always seemed to me to be a problem in the voice he gave his characters - it usually felt like the characters spent time telling us how they felt, instead of saying things and acting in ways that showed us how they felt. This wasn't true (or at least didn't seem true to me, even on later readings) of his 70's work.

Oh, and, personally, I like Paul Ryan's artwork. He is (or was, don't think I've seen anything recent by him) a solid storyteller - you don't wind up wondering what's happening on the page (like, for instance, with Chris Bachalo) or wondering why everyone is standing around in contorted pin-ups poses (like many of the Image clones popular at the time).

Worse than that, if you look at the original art, they're still calling Reed "Reed" while he's wearing his mask, so it's not as if the masks are helping with the whole "secret identity" angle. And, of course, the Thing is somewhat obvious as the Thing, helmet or no!

>>> and Mantis? Is there anyone else besides Englehart who likes Mantis?!?

I actually liked her a great deal on the Silver Surfer run... not so much in the stories that followed. Or the stories that came before, for that matter.

It wasn't until that issue of Marvel Fanfare came out that I saw the splash page with Mantis -- in an almost identical pose -- and put two-and-two together.

Too bad it didn't go in that direction (creatively); I would've loved to have seen JBuscema on that run... but only if Jack Abel WASN'T inking him!

(BTW Englehart brought freaking Mantis into the Fantastic Four, too. How could he not? That'd be like Jim Starlin doing four issues of Power Pack and NOT having them fight Thanos!)

Minor nitpick, but the helmet wasn't entirely unused--the color version of the panel (the one sans masks for Reed & Sue) did appear in FF#3, and Ben wears the helmet in a few more panels before getting rid of it.

So, to paraphrase Miracle Max, it was mostly unused.

While we're on the subject of Ben's costume: Almost immediately after tossing aside the helmet, he tears off the top part of his uniform leaving only pants and boots (not unlike the live action movies). In the next issue, he wears shorts and boots, and in FF#5 he finally switches to the shorts-only look we all know and love.

Best,
Hunter (Pedro Bouça)

but they are too important characters to die!

I don't think that's the reason. I think the reason is that everybody has their favorite characters and if they get the chance to write that book, or one associated with it, they'll resurrect whomever they have to.

It's not like they let the lower-tier characters rest in peace or anything.

This is my first comment here, so let me start by saying how much I love your column.

I'm not sure if this would qualify as an urban legend or not, but I've been trying to satsify my curiosity about this for a while without much luck.

At the end of Amazing Spider-Man #180, penned by Len Wein, there's a teaser for the next issue promising the return of the Rocket Racer. Instead, in #181 we get a recap of Spidey's origin and career so far written by Bill Mantlo. Issue #182 delivered the Rocket Racer as promised, but it also began Marv Wolfman's run on the book.

According to the Len Wein article on Wikipedia, he had some kind of dispute with Marvel and left to work at DC. My questions are, did this dispute really occur, what was it about & was it the reason for his abrupt departure from ASM. Hopefully the answers to these questions aren't complete common knowledge; so far my web searching hasn't turned up anything.

Thanks.

-------------

I thought it was a fairly clever story, although not the best FF Karl Kesel has done.

And characters like the original FF members won't EVER die permanently. The most that can happen is for one of them to get offed so that he won't be on the book for an extended period of time (like Reed Richards in the 90s), but they are too important characters to die!

Best,
Hunter (Pedro Bouça)

Comics are my music!

Best,
Hunter (Pedro Bouça)

I remember reading the "FF: Death in the Family" one-shot that came out before Civil War in 2006, and hearing a lot of talk at the comic book store that Invisible Woman was going to die either before or during CW. Of course, Death in the Family turned out to be a boring one-off story that really didn't accomplish anything regarding its solicitation, and Reed saved Sue during CW #7.

Was there really ever a plan in place to kill the Invisible Woman?

Dave Sikula -- I believe that's an ostentatiously bad toupee Englehart is wearing in the last panel, as he pretends to be John Harkness and claims it'd take a better writer than him to make sense of the mess Marvel editorial made! Also, Rich Buckler, King of the Swipes (although I personally am a big fan of Buckler's), illustrates the Clone FF issues.

Ha!

It's worth re-reading even if you hate Englehart FF, just to see how many vicious digs per square inch he managed to cram in there. Amazing stuff. Really structured. It's like the Watchmen of "take this job and shove it."

And I liked Moench's run.