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CSBG Archive

Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed #111

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This is the one-hundredth and eleventh in a series of examinations of comic book urban legends and whether they are true or false. Click here for an archive of the previous one-hundred and ten. Click here for a similar archive, only arranged by subject.

Let’s begin!

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: A doppleganger of Superman created in a special Superman comic was originally intended to be the way for Superman to return from the dead after his death against Doomsday.

STATUS: False

As I mentioned in an earlier installment of Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed, when Doomsday appeared on the scene and killed Superman, there was this mad rush to find out more about him, or just more about the death of Superman period.

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Books became “hot” because someone theorized that they might have something to do with the death and/or the return of Superman.

One such book was 1992’s Superman Special by Walt Simonson.

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The comic was an homage to Denny O’Neil’s Superman run where O’Neil revamped Superman during the 70s. The original comic featured a creature made of sand who stole some of Superman’s powers. The character was dropped soon afterwards (O’Neil was not on the book very long). Simonson’s one-shot also featured a doppleganger of Superman that was a sort of creature made out of sand.

At the end, the sand creature appeared to die, but the ending was left vague.

Therefore, the theory became that it was the DOPPLEGANGER who died during the fight with Doomsday, and that the real Superman was in hibernation somewhere.

A reader wrote to me awhile back asking if DC had, in fact, planned on doing this, after all, the comic came out in 1992, the same year Superman was killed off, and it was done by a prominent creator in Walt Simonson.

That seemed off to me, though, because when the Special came out, it struck me as though it was an old Annual, or something like that.

In any event, for the truth, I went to the man himself, Walt Simonson, and here was his reply:

I think your poster was right–there was a rumor running around at the time that the Special had some connection to the Death of Superman stories but it didn’t. The Special was actually supposed to have come out at least a year earlier and it just took me a long time to do. So it wasn’t timed to come out with any relationship to the Death storyline. But I do seem to remember some speculation at the time along these lines. Don’t remember any more than that now.

Thank you, Mr. Simonson! And thank you poster whose name I have since forgotten (feel free to leave your name in the comments and I’ll edit you in)!!

On the next page, did Marvel have a line of female superhero comics…in the 1940s?!?!

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75 Comments

Patsy Walker looks sort of illegal. Not that I’d mind it if she were, as she must be legal by now.

>_>

.0

“Patsy Walker…must be legal by now.”

She is. That’s the Avenger/Defender Hellcat.
It’s canon in Marvel that comics were written about her when she was a teenager.
Even funnier that her boyfriend from the teen comic became the supervillain Mad Dog.

So when did Night Nurse come out? The Silver Age Patsy Walker was always a pretty great concept I thought. Especially when they hooked her up with Misty Knight.

Oh, and I remember the Superman-was-really-Sand-Supes rumor too. I think Wizard even played it up for a few months because they were trying to drive up the prices on the Simonson Special like they helped do on every other comic remotely connected to the Death storyline.

Another rumor I remember, that never bore any fruit, was something about an issue of Action Comics that was printed a few months before the Doomsday storyline. At the end, Brainiac launches some sort of final failsafe device toward Earth when he knows he’s defeated.

There was big speculation that the device he launced was the pod carrying Doomsday. I remember that set off a frenzy for that issue as well. Although, in the end, I don’t think anything ever came of it.

Not only did Thor and Lokin make Pre-JiM appearances but apparently Ares and Hercules first appeared in an issue of Human Torch in the 50s.

There are a lot of cover scans in this week’s column. I bet the source would appreciate an acknowledgment…

Namora made only one appearance in a ’70s-era Marvel Comic, in the Sub-Mariner issue that introduced her daughter Namorita and revealed the fact of her death. She made no appearances in Silver Age continuity, unless you count the Subby reprints in Fantasy Masterpieces/Marvel Super-Heroes.

I would love to see the Thor and Loki designs from those issues of Venus.

“When the Marvel Silver Age superhero _reconnaissance_ occurred”

Do you mean Renaissance?

Jeff Albertson

July 13, 2007 at 8:56 am

I’m surprised you didn’t mention Marvel’s early 1970’s attempt to develop a line of female-oriented comics. Granted, only the Cat was a superhero title, but it was a well-intentioned effort.

Regarding the Brainiac failsafe — The follow-up to that happened very quickly after the Brainiac storyline, so it was clear to anyone actually following the comics that it wasn’t connected to Doomsday. What a surprise to see that Wizard’s staff didn’t actually read the comics they wrote about . . . .

Finally, Sub-Mariner 57 with Venus and Subby by Bill Everett is one of the most beautifully-drawn comics I’ve ever seen. Damn, it’s a shame that Everett passed away so early.

Isn’t it possible (or even likely) that the push to add all these female superheroes to the Timely books was a reaction to Werthem and his efforts against comic books? I mean, the flip side of adding a new female sidekick is losing the former young boy sidekick. Attacks on “young male wards” like Robin, Bucky, Toro, etc. would have been around that same late-40’s timeframe, right? So in addition to tapping into a new market of female readers, it also seems to me to be, at least in part, a reaction to attacks on the comic industry.

“Therefore, the theory became that it was the DOPPLEGANGER who died during the fight with Doomsday, and that the real Superman was in hibernation somewhere.”

Does this remind anyone else of the end of the Dark Phoenix story in x-men?

Frederic Krier

July 13, 2007 at 11:05 am

The early seventies female heroes push included I believe Night Nurse, Shanna the She-Devil and The Cat. In some ways, Marvel also tried to have more solo heroines in the late seventies, mostly female versions of their male heroes (Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Spider-Woman, plus Dazzler, Red Sonja…).

If I understood the retcon in Agents of Atlas right, the Venus in Sub-Mariner was the greek goddess and not the 50’s version. That’s the one retcon in AOA that I don’t believe really works.

Loving the cover to Marvel Mystery Comics #88. Nothing’s more relaxing than shooting guns from a diving board.

Wouldya believe, here in Finland is a band called The Patsy Walkers:

http://www.thepatsywalkers.com/

“Isn’t it possible (or even likely) that the push to add all these female superheroes to the Timely books was a reaction to Werthem and his efforts against comic books? I mean, the flip side of adding a new female sidekick is losing the former young boy sidekick. Attacks on “young male wards” like Robin, Bucky, Toro, etc. would have been around that same late-40’s timeframe, right? So in addition to tapping into a new market of female readers, it also seems to me to be, at least in part, a reaction to attacks on the comic industry.”

This push for female super heroes started in 1948. While Wertham wrote the first two of his diatribes against comic books in 1948, his ideas didn’t really have much momentum at that point. Concern rose through the next several years, culminating in the publication of Seduction of the Innocent in 1953, at the peak of anti-comic book hysteria. So while it’s at least possible, I think the timing of the comics publication versus when Wertham’s first articles were published doesn’t quite jive. I’m more inclined to think it was fortuitous serendepity that had Marvel been publishing female super heroes before/as Wertham started his machine rolling. But I may be wrong…

-r-

So, is Sun Girl the one single old Marvel character who has never been brought back/ re-imagined / re-invented/ de-constucted?

The info about the female superheroes was fantastic news for me. Even after all these decades, um, years of collecting, I’d never known about Golden Girl being Bucky’s replacement. Can you please direct us to any resources with more covers/pages/histories of superheroines from the Golden Age?

There are a lot of cover scans in this week’s column. I bet the source would appreciate an acknowledgment…

You WOULD have to write that right before I posted a post I had in the can ABOUT GCD appreciation!!

Now you’ve ruined it! ;) It will look like I am responding to this comment!! Darn you!!

Namora made only one appearance in a ’70s-era Marvel Comic, in the Sub-Mariner issue that introduced her daughter Namorita and revealed the fact of her death. She made no appearances in Silver Age continuity, unless you count the Subby reprints in Fantasy Masterpieces/Marvel Super-Heroes

Yeah, sorry, Kurt, I meant to write “post-Silver Age,” not “Silver Age.”

Meaning that she only made a handful of appearances after the Silver Age.

Is it just me, or does the Blonde Phantom look like a good candidate for Marvel to push to the forefront like they’ve been doing for Ms. Marvel?

I could totally see that character taking off again…(especially with the Spirit doing well)

Sorry to be so picky, but Venus is a Roman goddess. Aphrodite is the Greek goddess. They’re pretty much the same deity, but they were two different cultures and the names shouldn’t be considered interchangeable.

Fun stories all around this time. Love the column!

Sorry to be so picky, but Venus is a Roman goddess. Aphrodite is the Greek goddess. They’re pretty much the same deity, but they were two different cultures and the names shouldn’t be considered interchangeable.

Fun stories all around this time. Love the column!

Nah, it’s not too picky. It’s a fair point.

Thats OK Brian. We will take the recognition any way we can. We are trying to do a better job of pubicizing http://www.comics.org. You would be amazed how many people don’t even know we exist.

Yeah, that’s actually the gist of the post. That more people should know of you guys. :)

It’ll be up in a sec.

Ah, Walter…come back and draw Superman!

I was one of the people who thought Simonson’s Superman Special had to be tied to the Death of Superman story somehow. My reasoning was, there was no way DC would publish a book that bad unless it tied to larger stories.

What?
No mention of the Blonde Phanom in She-hulk?

So, is Sun Girl the one single old Marvel character who has never been brought back/ re-imagined / re-invented/ de-constucted?

Sure looks that way, doesn’t it?

The Blonde Phantom, and her daughter, the Phantom Blonde, would become supporting characters in the 90’s She-Hulk by Gerber.

nightwingoracle

July 13, 2007 at 1:17 pm

I was thinking about the Blonde Phantom in SENSATIONAL SHE-HULK as well…I enjoyed her appearances there and didn’t her daughter show up to become the Phantom Blonde?

“Jahnke said …

Loving the cover to Marvel Mystery Comics #88. Nothing’s more relaxing than shooting guns from a diving board.”

Duh. Of *course* there is!
Shooting guns from a diving board while a flaming man flies three feet in front of your face!
Geez, it’s so obvious….

I would love love love to revamp Sun Girl in some fashion.

I remember that Walt’s special was originally listed as a Superman annual about a year before it was released. I would have to find it, but there was a house ad in some DC comics, announcing both this and an annual by Chris Claremont and Michael Golden. The Claremont/Golden one was never finished, though I remember seeing some of the pages that were complete. Being a huge fan of Golden’s, I was really looking forward to it, but it never came to be.

90% of my comic book collecting was Timely/Atlas girl hero books. :) Awesome stuff. You should do a column on Joe Joe Maneely. Lots of urban legends surrounding his career and untimely passing.

Sun Girl got ret-conned into a dizzy Jim Hammond stalker by Roy Thomas in the 12 issue ret-con of the The Human Torch’s back story.
I like to ignore it, along with Golden Girl’s ret-con history.

Notice how HUGE the white star is on Captain America’s back on that old cover? Interesting, I never noticed that about the classic costume before.

I looked up Sun Girl in the OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE: GOLDEN AGE 2004, and she has an odd history. The Golden Age stories where apparently wildly inconsistant (as per most comics of the time).
In some Sun Girl is just an wet-behind-the-ears sidekick, while in others she is a possible immortal with a crime-fighting career predating the Golden Age by decades. In some she is just an athletic human with a “Sunbeam Ray” wristband (to blind foes with, LOL) and a pair of Colt .45s, in other stories she is an actual alien from inside the sun.

And no, outside of a brief apperance in a WWII flashback in the 1990 Human Torch mini-series, nobody has touched her since 1950.

I was the one who suggested the Superman/Sand Superman Urban Legend

I feel very special

Ha

> If I understood the retcon in Agents of Atlas right, the Venus in Sub-Mariner was the greek goddess and not the 50’s version. That’s the one retcon in AOA that I don’t believe really works.

Yeah – I’ve been looking at this recently. The big problem is that Venus references that issue (she was Namorita’s teacher therein). And Ares recognises her as Venus/Aphrodite. And later, when the Avengers (including Namor) visit Olympus, they drop in on Venus and she remembers the meeting from Sub-Mariner #57 (which is footnoted).

Great job as usual! I love all the cover scans.

For the record, Byrne brought back the middle-aged Blonde Phantom in She-Hulk #4 (the gag was that all Marvel #4’s had Golden Age character revivals – Avengers #4-Cap, FF#4-Subby, FF Annual #4-Original Human Torch, She-Hulk #4-Blonde Phantom).

Love that evening gown styled BP costume! I wonder who designed it? I think Mike Sekowsky or Syd Shores drew the comic.

This column brings out the geek in me and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. :)

One quibble:

“After the war, though, sales slumped – BIG TIME. So companies were quick to try anything they thought might work. That, really, is how superheroes as a whole came about. Superman hit it big, so everyone tried to make their own Superman. So now, a decade later, people were trying to find the NEXT big thing.”

Superman as you know, came out before the war as did most other superheroes. It was after the war that Superhero sales slumped, but I’m not sure if comic sales as a whole slumped. Other genres were picking up sales, particularly Westerns, Romance and Crime. Publishers began doing those instead. EG. DC changed All Star Comics and All American Comics to All Star Western and All American Western. Plus, after the war paper restrictions were lifted and everybody and their dog began publishing comics. That added with traditional publishers doing more books likely caused sales to be spread out over a larger number of titles.

Marvel was getting female readers with a variety of female centered books, Millie the Model, Pasty Walker, various romance books, and of course female superhero books. In all honesty, the female superheroes likely came about because Harvey’s Black Cat was a popular. She was a back up character from the early years of the Golden Age who got her own successful title in 1946.

On another small note:
Venus also appears in an Roger Stern Avengers story. It was the next major story after the Mansion Siege story line (now in trade). Zeus finds out Hercules is injured and in his fucked up state, Herc blames the Avengers for his condition. From there the Greek Gods battle the Avengers on Zeus’ orders. The Avengers end up in Olympus and try to get other Greek Gods to side with them to try and talk sense into Zeus. Namor talks to Venus and she sides with him.

I really doubt it was intentional, but Crystal of the Inhumans bears a passing resemblance (reddish hair/yellow suit) to Sun Girl…

Floyd The Barber

July 13, 2007 at 4:08 pm

Great column as always!

What ever became of the Blonde Phantom? Does Marvel have the rights to her? And if so, why is no one utilizing it? She has a great character design.

Andy K beat me to it, but he is quite correct about the house ad for the Superman Annual that the Sand-Creature homage was to have been published in. If memory serves it was going to be either SUPERMAN ANNUAL #3 and the Claremont/Golden story was going to be in ACTION ANNUAL #3. Both annuals got caught up in the ARMAGEDDON 2001 crossover and the finally published versions of both annuals were quite good.

I found the SUPERMAN SPECIAL in 1996 after years of searching for it. A page fell out, so I bought another copy and the same damn thing happened. It’s a curse I tell you! A curse!

Carlton Donaghe

July 13, 2007 at 6:03 pm

I can’t believe that in all this discussion, no one mentioned Marvel/Timely’s most popular and famous female star… whose comic lasted from the forties into the mid-seventies and was Marvel’s FIRST comic to reach #200– even before Journey into Mystery/Thor!

It was a gorgeous comic, with art by Dan DeCarlo, Stan Goldberg and even… Sol Brodsky!

And great Stan Lee humor!

Isn’t ANYONE going to mention her?!

Carlton Donaghe

July 13, 2007 at 6:05 pm

Oh… and not to forget… it was HER who first dressed up as the Blonde Phantom!

C’mon… anyone?

I already mentioned Millie the Model.

If I’m correct, the Agents of Atlas reboot was not that Venus was a Roman goddess (which as pointed above, had already been well established) but that she was a Sea Nymph with a delusion of being Venus. Which not only doesn’t fit with the other stuff at all, but seems to have been changed for no good reason. (Marvel Boy was also altered in disgusting ways- I guess they’re just trying to Modernize them by making them all tragic. Thanks a lot, Marvel.)

Well, Marvel Boy was dead.
That sorta thing typically does need explanation

Insert woman driving joke here——>

In my long out of print book, “The Great Women Superheroes,” I devote an entire chapter to Timely’s 1948 superheroine group. Because they made guest appearances and had backup stories in each other’s comic books, I dubbed it the great superheroine slumber party of 1948. Sometimes you can find the book used on Amazon.com or eBay.

The Kirbydotter

July 13, 2007 at 8:26 pm

Jeff Albertson said
“Finally, Sub-Mariner 57 with Venus and Subby by Bill Everett is one of the most beautifully-drawn comics I’ve ever seen. Damn, it’s a shame that Everett passed away so early.”

I was going to say the same thing Jeff!

I remember getting this issue almost by pure luck.
I like Subby but never got into collecting the Silver/Bronze Age run (I had bought the TALES TO ASTONISH series from the late 70s that reprinted the early John Buscema stories from the Silver Age). But I always liked the distinctive style of Bill Everett (especially his 50’s horror stories).

I was at a minor Comic Book Show in Montreal and one of the dealers had a dollar box. Mostly kraapy books… But… Lo and behold! I find this issue. Sub-Mariner # 57 in very nice condition too. A beautiful cover that caught my eye right away. I wasn’t aware at the time that Bill Everett had came back at the end of the title’s Bronze Age run (sadly only for a few issues before his health failed) to the character he had created. All I knew was that it was a cool cover! I spotted Venus right away. I had read a few reprinted stories from the Golden Age, and I thought it was cool that Marvel had brung her back.

A cool cover, by Bill Everett (who had drawn both Subby and Venus in the Golden Age), a Subby/Venus team-up, all for a dollar!

Of course, I bought it and boy was I glad of my investment because when I came back home and opened the comic book bag to look at the interiors, I realized for the first time that, not only Everett had drawn that cool cover I couldn’t get over from, but he had drawn the interior story as well! Beautiful art too! Everett at his best!

I don’t think it’s worth that much in OPG, but it is still one of the best investment I ever made for a dollar, if only for the pure joy of reading a Venus and Sub-Mariner story drawn by the great Bill Everett!

Thanks for stopping by, Trina. I loved “From Girls to Grrrlz: A History of Women’s Comics from Teens to Zines”, but I’ve never gotten the chance to read “The Great Women Superheroes.”

I really ought to!

Superman as you know, came out before the war as did most other superheroes. It was after the war that Superhero sales slumped, but I’m not sure if comic sales as a whole slumped. Other genres were picking up sales, particularly Westerns, Romance and Crime. Publishers began doing those instead. EG. DC changed All Star Comics and All American Comics to All Star Western and All American Western. Plus, after the war paper restrictions were lifted and everybody and their dog began publishing comics. That added with traditional publishers doing more books likely caused sales to be spread out over a larger number of titles.

Thanks, Jamie. I should have mentioned that stuff. I believe the overall statement “comic sales dropped BIG TIME” is still accurate, but I should have pointed out that a number of comics still WERE quite popular, just in different comic genres than superheroes.

Sales as a whole, though, I believe were down dramatically post-war.

I do not speak to be an expert here, though, so if someone out there has the exact (or even INexact) sales figures, I’d love to hear about it!

Three observations:

1. Gotta get that cover from Venus #1.

2. Even with the ruckus Wertham raised over boy sidekicks, did anyone think that the Timely heroes hanging out with young girls was somehow more wholesome? Or was Golden Girl Cap’s cousin and I just missed it?

3. I think maybe the cover of Marvel Mystery #90 was originally intended to be a Public Service Announcement on the dangers of spinach abuse.

Sorry to be so picky, but Venus is a Roman goddess. Aphrodite is the Greek goddess. They’re pretty much the same deity, but they were two different cultures and the names shouldn’t be considered interchangeable.

I think the Romans felt differently.

Isn’t it possible (or even likely) that the push to add all these female superheroes to the Timely books was a reaction to Werthem and his efforts against comic books? I mean, the flip side of adding a new female sidekick is losing the former young boy sidekick. Attacks on “young male wards” like Robin, Bucky, Toro, etc. would have been around that same late-40’s timeframe, right? So in addition to tapping into a new market of female readers, it also seems to me to be, at least in part, a reaction to attacks on the comic industry.

That stuff almost all took place in the early 1950s, Craig. This took place in 1948, so I don’t think they were responding to Wertham.

Does Namor still have that strange-shaped head? I like it. That Marvel Mystery cover is all kinds of excellent! Also, I really dig the font used in the title of Venus #12.

Can we see some scans of the golden age Thor/Loki?

There’s evidence to suggest that Sun Girl is a (somewhat better than the original) copy of EC’s Moon Girl, who is herself a very bad copy of Wonder Woman.

Matthew Lazorwitz

July 14, 2007 at 11:25 am

OK, here’s an urban legend I heard, and I’ve always wondered if it’s true:

There was an issue of Batman: Gotham Knights written by Devin Grayson that editorial found so disturbing that they dropped it after it was solicited and replaced it with a random fill-in. It’s in regards to Batman: Gothan Knights #12, a part of the unfortunate “This Issue: Batman Dies!” month. It was supposed to focus on Mr. Zsasz, the knife-wielding lunatic introduced by Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle in “The Last Arkham” story. The solicitations in Previews showed up with the description of the story and the cover (the cover is actually used as the image on Zsasz’s Wikipedia page). But when the issue came out… it was an issue about Oracle. I read somewhere on some message board (making me think it was an urban legend) that the issue was just so creepy, and Zsasz portrayed as so monstrous, and his “murder” of Batman so perverse, that they canned the story and replaced it with a fill-in.

Matthew Lazorwitz

July 14, 2007 at 11:26 am

Oh, and I forgot to say, I love these columns! Look forward to them every week.

Patrick Mattauch

July 15, 2007 at 12:12 am

I wonder if the back of Captain America’s costume above was changed to reflect how it appeared in the movie serial from the ’40’s?

Nope – that’s Cap’s original costume. The stripes stopped before it hit his back.

resemblance to french fox

July 16, 2007 at 11:46 am

I wish Marvel did more Female characters series, Agent Of Atlas was very cool for bringing back some cool ones in a very interesting way. I also wish Marvel released a few golden age Female Marvel Masterworks like Miss America and the Blonde Phantom, starting with first appearance stories. I find Marvel Comics VERY SEXIST not to put out more female character solo series out except for annoying Spider knock off Girl. Stuff like Miss America was extremely well done and there is no reason not to release those in Masterworks while bad stuff like USA Comics get rushed to the reprinting press

What a fun column today- that Blonde Phantom cover is amazing- very striking, and my favorite of the lot.

I believe two other folks have mentioned it, but if not a picture, perhaps a description if one is available, of what Thor and Loki looked like prior to their “official” debut would be really great- I’m very curious if they were sporting more “traditional” looks (like Thor’s once upon a time mortal replacement who took on the “original” red bearded look so oft described in Norse mythology), or if they actually did appear as we know them.

David Kirkpatrick

July 16, 2007 at 4:00 pm

The stripes on the lower half of Cap’s torso go all the way around in the version of the costume worn by Steve Rogers, while the stripes are only in the front on the 1950’s replacement Cap. This was a major plot point of a great arc in Captain America and the Falcon in the early 70’s, when they re-introduced the 1950’s Captain America and Bucky (who later became Nomad).

Let me get this straight: Republic had no basis in the comics for that aspect of the costume, but despite complaining about the serial at the time, Timely/Atlas/Marvel subsequently incorporated that version of the stripes into their comics?

Carlton Donaghe

July 17, 2007 at 7:57 pm

Sorry I got back late, but Mr. Coville, you are right– I had missed your mention of Millie the Model. At one time, a major Marvel franchise, with some great art.

Millie appeared as the Blonde Phantom in an early issue of her comic, so the B.P. was recreated as a character in her own right.

Cap’s stripes going all the way around was likely a retcon. A look at the GCD cover scans shows the earliest shot of his back on a cover was #31 in 1943, and the stripes are only on the front.

Cool page, keep it up! greetings from germany

I’ve read most of Sun Girl #1 and I remember that the lead story is just absolutely gorgoeus. I think it may have been Al Feldstein’s pencils. That guy could really draw (especially women).

–CLiffy

Venus also made an appearance in the “Avengers Forever” maxi-series (circa 1999) as a member of the “1950’s Avengers”. It was an alternate timeline team, but it also included 3-D Man, Marvel Boy, Gorilla Man and Living Robot.

There’s some fan debate/speculation over whether or not the 1950’s Avengers team existed in the mainstream Marvel U. Was this team mentioned in “Agents of Atlas”?

[quote]I find Marvel Comics VERY SEXIST not to put out more female character solo series out except for annoying Spider knock off Girl.[/quote]

Well, there’s also Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Runaways, which is lead by a female character and features more women than men, the new Quasar miniseries, a couple of the one-shots in the new magic books, and Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane. Recently they’ve published Arana and Jubilee books, as well.

Venus became a horror comic…for some reason.

Given that there appears to be a whole generation of Marvel Super-heroes, of which the current comic buying population has NO KNOWLEDGE OF (female superheroes, gasp!)…. Is this where the idea for Marvel: The Lost Generation came from?

As I recall, John Byrne and maybe Roger Stern created a type of pocket universe based in part on some older monster/mystery stories that seemed to indicate that their had been a skrull invasion back prior to the current Marvel Silver age, but that an entire generation of superheroes had been wiped out or ERASED by a reordering of the time-line.

This also leads one to ask, is the current chronology of the Marvel Universe correct? That is, how many other manipulations by Kang or Immortus have there been…and could the actual history of Marvel Silver age be radically different than the published stories that we know and love… FF go to the moon… Avengers find Cap frozen in the ice… X-men were hidden from the public in a school… Dr. Strange became the disciple of the Ancient One… Bruce Banner became the Hulk…. etc.

There’s one Venus appearance you forgot, iirc. She appeared in the first few issues of CHAMPIONS in the mid-Seventies, when the heroes encountered the Greco-Roman gods, one of whom was Hercules, a Champion from issue #1 up. Hurricane, who appearfed in early-40’s issues of CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS, was said to be the son of Thor, but I think Marvel has later retconned him as being an identity of the Eternal Makkari. Thor also appeared in an INVADERS story set in the Forties. Since Don Blake once mentioned his “bum leg” keeping him out of the Korean War, I think Odin probably gave Thor the amnesiac Don Blake identity sometime between World War II and Korea. At least, in the Silver Age.

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