Comic Book Resources

I have been soooo guilty of this in the past… the worst example most likely being Alpha Flight (the original run). I picked up that book for *years*, knowing that it sucked harder than a black hole. In that particular case, I was convinced that the book would be cancelled shortly, and so I was determined to stick it out, so that I would have a complete run.

They outlasted me, BTW. I finally gave up on the book somewhere around #90 or so.

These day, I use the Goldfinger Rule in regards to bad issues and dropping a title (“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.”). That’s only when the quality drops with a writer already in place; if it stops becoming enjoyable with a new writer showing up, I drop the title immediately.

Oh, and like you Greg, I also made the mistake of continuing to keep picking up the post-Perez Titans issues. Urg…

I will defend my Outsiders-buying simply because I knew it was going to be three issues. Yes, that’s 9 dollars I could have spent on something else, but I was really hoping Rucka’s plotting trumped Winick’s writing. It didn’t, but at least I know now that there’s no reason to by Winick’s superhero stuff.

I also think that occasionally I need to read (since I can do it for free now) books I know I’m going to hate, so I can actually bash them and know what I’m doing. I held my tongue about JLA because I hadn’t read any. Now that I have, I can join in.

It was far easier to stick with a title back in the day because of the price. Also, new writers/artist tended to respect the previous creators’ work a bit more (even if it sucked), so you felt that once a new writer came on board, he would reference the crappy stories and you’d be lost. It’s not really a good excuse, but it’s something. These days, new writers love upending the status quo, so there’s no reason to stick with a crappy writer, because everything will change anyway.

Also, Defenders #46-50 were very good. Come on – “Who Remembers Scorpio?”!!!!! Gold, man, gold!

I also picked up Alpha Flight back in the day. What a great marketing scheme that was. “We’re going to start the book, and immediately break up the team. We’ll reassemble them, kill one off, and break them up again.” Brilliant. I even stuck with it after Byrne left and Marvel decided to undo every single one of his ideas. When they undid Puck’s dwarfism, I had to call it a day.

Checking the closest box of comics to me, for some reason I bought the entire run of DC’s Anima, and I don’t remember understanding a single freakin’ word of it. Why would I do that?

http://www.reidaboutit.com

I figure its just because you realize that eventually they have to get better, so you slog through on the grounds that crappy comic is better then no comic at all.

But that doesn’t excuse buying crappy one-off issues, or crappy tie-in issues.

The investment in the characters definitely has a lot to do with it… I might think that Knightfall storyline Batman had in the 90s was stupid, but I read all the way through it, cause Batman is awesome. I wonder, though, if a sort of collector’s instinct doesn’t tie in to it. If you own the last x years of Daredevil comics and some crappy writer comes on… do you want that hole in your collection? Is $35 over the course of a year that big a price to pay for completeness’ sake?

I remember one fellow on the DC Message Boards who hated hated hated Phil Jiminez’s run on Wonder Woman. He hated it so much he posted that he now only be buying one copy of Wonder Woman a month, instead of ten!

The times when I’ve been guilty of this is when it’s a book I HAD been enjoying for a long while. New Teen Titans is a great example. After so many years of those great Wolfman-Perez stories, I guess it just took a long while to realize those days were gone.

I pretty much cured myself of buying comics I don’t like a long time ago. When I was off in college, my comics shop held my subscriptions for me until I was home on break. I would wind up buying a stack of comics I didn’t like and hadn’t missed, and I realized it was a waste of money and space.

I don’t think anything tops the people who claimed to hate Kyle Rayner with a passion, yet continued to buy Green Lantern for the decade he was headlining it.

And then whined about it every damn month. For ten years.

I suppose I’m guilty of this a little bit for a few things – I pick up Countdown knowing it’s bad because I want something to pick up every week, I read through the awful DEO kids arc in The Titans hoping they’d move on to something better, and I survive through the recent Teen Titans Amazon Tie-in crap in preparation for Sean McKeever’s run.

As for deciding for ourselves what’s canon and what’s not, it’s sometimes a little easier with Spider-Man or Spider-Girl since they have multiple, ongoing storylines plus alternate universe stuff. What about fans of dead characters or ones who have been changed around significantly?

Wow, this is more or less exactly what I posted in the comments of the last Theory of Comics, except said much more succinctly (if not concisely). In particular I agree with the bit about “these aren’t news dispatches, you don’t NEED to know what happens if you hate the story.” Kudos.

I really do hate this impulse, because I think it’s the single thing keeping comics trapped in their freakish subcultural bubble where quality is ignored in favour of what’s being touted as “important” and “radical”. DC and Marvel are just as trapped by this as a lot of fanboys seem to be–I honestly believe both companies want to publish interesting and new stuff, but the sales on Countdown to Crisis On Infinite Planet Civil War Dissassembled make it impossible to stop. Still, I can’t help thinking that in a decade or so Marvel and DC are going to be dethroned by Dark Horse, Image, and the other “smaller” companies that are free to actually publish other genres. That’s where the comics audience is actually growing.

Sure, I buy comics I don’t like in the hopes that they’ll “get better.” I do it for one simple reason:

Once upon a time I gave up on a title that I found very boring. My last issue of Saga of Swamp-Thing #19 …

I think we’re all guilty at some point of sicking with a book much too long. What I think it comes down to is that, while we like certain publishers and certain creators more than others, we are usually most loyal to certain characters. I love Green Arrow. And Flash. And Justice League. And Incredible Hulk. And many others, all of which have had some really good highs as far as creative quality…but also some REALLY low lows. And in many cases, I stuck with it just to keep reading about my favorite characters on the hopes that either:

1.)the current sucky creative team would turn it around and start telling good stories, or

2.)a new creative team would take over and breathe life back into the characters and goshdarnit, I didn’t want to miss what happened inbetween!

Eventually though, every book comes to the point in which you say enough is enough. I bought X-Men for 3 years after Claremont left back in 1991. After I finally dropped it, I just felt ashamed at having wasted my money on it for those 3 years. But like you said, I can just mentally choose which stories happened and which didn’t. As far as I’m concerned, JLA ended when Giffen & DeMatteis left, and time stopped for the Hulk when Peter David departed. DC gave us a great cutoff point for Wally West where I can just imagine he and Linda had that happy ending so few superheroes get. I know stuff is still going on with the characters, but I’ve decided to focus my attention and affection on the versions/runs of the books that I feel are deserving of it.

I’ve stuck out more than a few runs for one really, really stupid reason:

I HATE dropping a book and then coming back to it later.

I don’t try to think of myself as a completist, and will drop a book if it’s not entertaining me after, say, two issues, but I hate when a book is ok, or even great, and it starts to stink or not entertain me anymore, and then I leave it for a while and find out that it’s “gotten better” or “found its voice” or something, because then I feel obligated not only to buy it, but to go back and buy ALL OF THE OTHER ISSUES THAT I MISSED OUT ON. Which is a pain in the ass in many cases, and a complete waste of time on my part.

That’s why I love the trades right now; if I find that a book is stinking it up, I can drop it, and just not get the next trade, but with the way the comics are written now, you usually need four to six issues just to get a full story. And if I hate the trade I bought, I can always trade it online and get another trade for it through sites like CBR or http://www.sequentialswap.com

I can tell you why I buy comics I know are going to be bad, at least in the particular case of Jeph Loeb. When I first vocally expressed my dislike of Jeph Loeb’s work, a chorus of people would tell me that I just tried the wrong Jeph Loeb book and that ANOTHER Jeph Loeb book was actually his seminal work, the one that would change my mind about him. I’d keep taking recommendations, only to find that each one was dumber and had even bigger plot holes than the last one I tried. The final straw was when Greg Burgas swore up and down that I’d like Challengers of the Unknown Must Die, calling it “a Jeph Loeb book for people who hate Jeph Loeb.” I tried it, and it was by far the worst, most ridiculous piece of claptrap I read from him. But yeah, sometimes that’s how you get sucked into continuing to buy books you hate…people convince you to stick around because it’ll get better. People have been trying to get me into Blue Beetle for example by saying the newer issues are better than the annoying ones I already read.

I’ve learned my lesson though.

Enh. I think the only time I did that was when I went an “extra” year on UNCANNY to round my collection up to #300.

I avoid this pitfall of collecting by having a certain attitude towards the books.

Say a new monthly series starts. I ask myself, “Am I interested enough in this project to commit to the first story arc?” If the answer is yes, then I buy. Otherwise, I don’t even bother looking at it for an impulse buy. So, let’s say that first arc is good. Now I say to myself, “Am I ready to commit to issue #12?” And I repeat this process every 12 issues, or perhaps I’ll round up to #50, #75, that sort of thing. But I always make that finite issue point. If the book has not been entertaining me two to three issues before that final issue of commitment, then it’s bye bye comic, and on to something else.

There’s no guilt then. You know what you signed on for, and you went through with it. If the books sucked, you’re relieved that it’s over and you can move on with collecting other titles. If you’re enjoying it, then you won’t have a problem enlisting your following for another set number of issues.

It’s really that simple.

Great article, Greg! I enjoy your posts, and wish you did more of them (although they’re so substantive, I understand.)

I try to shop based on your two major points–one, don’t buy things that suck, and two, if you don’t like the storyline then it never happened.

But one thing that always nags me: if I like a character, and I don’t purchase the current writer’s run, am I jeopardizing the whole title’s future? Example–Moon Knight. God, is it indefensibly awful. For a while, I was entertained by its awfulness (or, rather, it was interesting to see someone who hadn’t written comics try to do so, and then to get a sense of what Charlie Huston was trying to do versus what ended up on the page.)

Then, early on in this volume of Moon Knight (like only a few issues in), I started reading that Huston would only be staying on through the first 12 issues. I love Moonie, and I want his title to continue, so I buy the bad issues, hoping that my support will lead to a better writer (or, really, just one that is more experienced) around issue 13 or so.

Am I a bad comics fan?

This is like a bolt of lightning, a shock of revelation! I had just complained to my comic book store guy that I was buying books that felt like a chore to read. Moon Knight is a perfect example, just like the Wandering Parakeet said. X-Men is another. The good news is that I just filled out my pull list for next month, and I am about ten comics shorter than I was the month before, and that was even after adding Metal Men (dropping Countdown helped). I am through giving my hard earned money to these companies when they don’t even try or care, they just send out junk. All right, so I’m still buying Y: the Last Man long after I got bored, but it’s almost over!

“This is like a bolt of lightning, a shock of revelation!”

You haven’t read Greg’s column before, I’m guessing?

In his influencial 70s boox “The Company We Keep”, Wayne Booth talks about how the relationship between a reader and books in which he is emotionally invested is like a friendship. You open yourself to their experiences, and have a broader range of life and emotional experiences for it.
If we take this idea to its limit, we can parallel this with the comics-buying phenomenon Greg’s described. What do you do when your friend becomes… well, a bad friend? I don’t mean that they’re having hard times, but that they’re abusive to you and require a a great investment with no reward?
I think there’s a parallel. So long as you’re invested in the character or title, this can happen at any time. The obvious alternative is to try to shift this focus from a ‘book-’ or ‘character-centric’ one to a ‘writer-centric’ focus. My friend Grant Morrison’s been an ass a few times in the last 10 years (*cough* Skrull Kill Crew *cough*), but overall I can trust him.
—
As an addenda, does anyone else remember Dark Horse’s brillianht marketting campaign from 15 years ago in which they describe Inertia as a force which which drives something long after the initial drive has been removed? It came out shortly before Comics Greatest World (w/ Ghost, Barb Wire, etc), and changed my life.
Addenda2: I bought FF for 40 issues before giving up at issue 400. Man, those Defalco issues sucked.

Stealthwise said… “I HATE dropping a book and then coming back to it later.”

That can certainly be a factor. I know it’s the reason why I continued to pick up Byrne’s run on Wonder Woman, even though it was pretty obvious from the beginning that it was going to suck, and suck hard. I had a complete run of the post-Crisis WW, and I didn’t want a gap when I could hopefully start enjoying the title again after Byrne was through with it. Besides, what if a better writer came along later, but used elements from Byrne’s run in their stories? I didn’t want to hunt down those back issues to have to understand what was going on. As it turns out, that wasn’t an issue, as pretty much every change Byrne made on WW was excised pretty much after the first post-Byrne arc.

BTW, how do we do quotes in this format?

I was certainly guilty of this syndrome until 1988 or so when Big Event Mania drove me away from both Marvel and DC. After a six year sabbatical, I re-entered the comics world older, wiser and far more conservative with my money. I currently buy three limited series from DC–Justice, Shazam:TMSoE and Brave & Bold–and nothing from Marvel (though having sampled their Adventures line, I’m contemplating adding them to my shopping list), avoiding the majority of their titles because I know I’m going to hate what’s being done to characters I love. It’s astounding how liberating this approach is. So, preach on, Brutha Greg, I’m with you all the way.

Very good article, and I can relate.

My first single issue of Amazing Spider-Man was #509 – the first issue of the “Sins Past” story arc. Despite the abhorrant blasphemy those issues contained, I stuck with it. I stuck with it through the Molten Man Redux, The Other, Civil War, and now, Back in Black. I will likely continue through One More Day. I can’t help it.

I’ve been reading Friendly Neighborhood and Marvel Knights/Sensational since #1. I read all seven issues of Civil War, even though it was blindingly obvious by #3 that the series was a dud.

I’ve been buying the new JLA since #1 and have stuck through all 10 craptacular issues so far. First I stuck around for The Ligntning Saga, and hell, by the time it was obvious that THAT was going to suck too, they announced McDuffie would be taking over! Surely I can wait out two or three more issues, can’t I?

It extends to other buying habits, too. I bought Season 7 of Buffy despite my insistence that it’s the worst season of the run. I’ve been buying Smallville on DVD for a while despite the fact that I’ve never been that keen on the show in the first place and it’s only been getting steadily worse as time progresses. When the craptacular 6th season of 24 comes out, I’ll buy it. Why? Well, what if Season 7 is good? I can’t have a hole between Seasons 5 and 7!

It’s crazy and silly and ridiculous, is what it is.

Someone help us!

-M

Lest I sounded too superior in my previous post, let me add thatwhat I said applies only to new comics. I still suffer from the “gotta have it all” syndrome when it comes to stuff like Silver/Bronze Age Batman or Wonder Woman or anything related to Earth-Two.

Is it just me or does it seem that when old comics are bad, it’s in a cheesy, fun away (not like the joyless, heartless, angstfests that dominate the genre today)?

Is it just me or does it seem that when old comics are bad, it’s in a cheesy, fun way (not like the joyless, heartless, angstfests that dominate the genre today)?

It’s not just you. I’m right there with you and I suspect Bill Reed is too.

But consider this — “cheesy fun” still translates as ENJOYMENT, which takes those books off the table for this column. That’s not the same thing as buying something you KNOW YOU WILL HATE.

I’m not talking about liking books that are “bad.” I love lots of comics and movies and TV shows that have no artistic merit whatsoever; many of the books my colleagues here at CSBG have singled out for being bad examples of one thing or another, I’m very fond of.

So it’s not about defending the things you like. I’m talking about actually spending cash on books that you WON’T ENJOY. There’s no “entertainment” there. That, to me, seems nuts, but I also know that it only seems nuts in the abstract, from a distance… because when I was doing it, I was using one or another of the rationalizations we can see people bringing up here in the comments.

But let’s be honest. Comics are a business. If one thing sells you are going to see a lot more books like that. So you essentially are giving up your right to bitch if you keep going back for more, as someone pointed out was the case with the HEAT people hanging in with the GL book for ten years… because the message that sends is “Kyle Rayner sells copies of GL.” No amount of letter writing or internet bitching or buying ad space in Wizard is going to trump that. If the book sells, we’ll see more of it. Sales translate as approval. Why we have such a blind spot about that concept I will never understand.

That’s why I urge all of you up there who are saying you CAN’T break up a run… why not? What happens then? What is the crime involved with a gap in your collection? I have big gaps in my runs of Aquaman and Savage Sword and FF and Daredevil and lots of other books that have blown hot and cold. And what I find is that the gaps don’t MATTER. I have stories I like and I really don’t miss the bad ones. Once you grant yourself the wonderful freedom of being able to say, “oh, well, if I haven’t read it, it doesn’t count,” it really can be life-changing.

If the gaps really bother you that much, then okay… but come on. At that point you are a collector. You might as well be going after rare stamps or baseball cards.

If you ARE being entertained, then hey, it’s your money, whatever. You are not the ones I’m addressing. Remember, it’s not even about continuing to buy books that you think are just okay; that’s still a book that entertains you. It’s about knowingly supporting books you HATE. You really don’t have to. This is a hobby, a lark, an amusing diversion. Shouldn’t it feel fun? Where’s the upside in hurling a comic to the floor and saying, “I can’t believe the bastards DID that?” when by continuing to buy it you signify your approval?

I’ve got to admit I bought all seven issues of Identity Crisis just to find out whodunit, when I was already disgusted by issue two. Lesson learned: i don’t have to pick it up, I can leaf through it at the store or read the reaction online.

I have no intention of picking up “One More Day.” I can read the reaction of what happened online. If it’s a masterpiece, I’ll pick it up later or in the trade. But fool me once, Spidey, shame on you. Fool me three hundred and eight times…well, won’t be burned again.

Yeah, you definitely ought not to buy comics you will not enjoy.

I suffer from complete-ism. There are books that as a reader I can’t stand to read but as a collector I can’t drop from my order because I can’t stand to have an unfinished series or a long gap in any title I collect. It’s hard for me when it comes to deciding in a new book. The advance solicitations don’t really tell you much, so often time I pick a book up, immediately dislike it, but still feel compelled to continue it.

Sort of reminds me of Homer and the Pig: “It’s just a little dirty, it’s still good, it’s still good! It’s just a little soggy…” Lord knows I’ve been there. [Glares at box of Brigade stanking up corner of apartment]

These days I read 100 Bullets and The Walking Dead every month, and that’s it, regular series-wise. I simply can’t afford to optimistically invest my time and money playing Fool Me Twice, I need that money for cigarettes, dammit!

Anything else I drop money on is either trades or back issues featuring stories and writers I know I’ll enjoy. If I’m curious about a current run, or what Status Quo Man’s up to these days, I dL the most recent issues. Yeah, I’m killing the industry.

But they’re the ones who loaded the gun.

I will never understand the impulse to buy comics you know you won’t like. There’s just no valid excuse. If you want to “keep up”, you can easily do so online. I know everything that happened in Civil War, for example, and I never touched an issue. You may argue for character investment, but isn’t the disgruntled fan’s most frequent complaint that their beloved characters are being written contrary to historic depictions?

And one of the nice things about indefinite serial media is that you can drop out and come back for another run and not be left in the cold. No need to keep abreast the whole time, because chances are that the new crew will be changing and restarting as much as they can, anyway.

Sorry to steer you wrong, T. I still maintain that Challengers of the Unknown is a very good comic. It’s definitely the best thing Loeb’s ever done.

It’s not just you. I’m right there with you and I suspect Bill Reed is too.

Oh my, yes.

I have occasional problems as described in this post, but I can’t think of any that got really out of hand. I’ve just dropped Detective Comics. It’s been getting more and more mediocre, and I finally gave up.

I also bought Astonishing X-Men up to #12 even though I thought it was mostly lousy since #4, but hey, I’m a Whedonite. My blind creator loyalty is sometimes bad when the creators put out something not-so-good.

Luckily, I don’t feel the need to “keep up” with characters or storylines. If I want to, there’s the internet for that. I’m really just in it for good stories, and I follow around good creators in order to find those good stories.

When I’m deep into a run, I’ll give it more leeway than I would a new series. Hey, I almost dropped Morrison’s New X-Men. Let’s be glad I didn’t. And I was giving up on Waid’s Fantastic Four when I found out it would be ending a few issues later, so I stuck it out till the end of the run.

Mostly, I don’t put up with comics I don’t like. I’m simply far too cheap to do so. I’d rather spend an obscene amount of money on *good* comics.

As long as you enjoy it, keep buying it. I love Tom DeFalco’s run on Thor– I do! And I have the whole thing. I also own every issue of Sleepwalker. Hell, I’m working on tracking down the full run of SuperPro. Many would call those bad comics, but I like ‘em. If you like it, buy it– even if I tell you it sucks.

I stopped buying Doom Patrol when Erik LArsen took over the art, but kept buying Amazaing Spider-Man when he did–why–the characters I guess. And hope someone else would come along.

I was disappointed when Rafael Kayanan took over Captain Atom and did a fourth rate Ditko impersonation on the art.

But I was wrapped up in the story.

When you hate the art, but like the characters and/or story you’re in a bind…

When you hate the art, but like the characters and/or story you’re in a bind…

Story, okay. But characters? I don’t see it. I mean, chances are pretty high that won’t be the last time you ever get to see that character. And if it’s someone like Spider-Man, you can probably just read one of their other books.

Apodaca said:
“Story, okay. But characters? I don’t see it. I mean, chances are pretty high that won’t be the last time you ever get to see that character. And if it’s someone like Spider-Man, you can probably just read one of their other books.”

Tell that to fans of Ted Kord or Vic Sage or Ronnie Raymond. A character like Spider-Man or Superman? Sure, they’re going to be around no matter what. But if you like a niche character like Captain Atom or Ant-Man or whoever, there’s no guarantee the company will stick with the version you enjoy if the sales aren’t there. I kept buying Firestorm despite not loving some of the stories because I was loyal to the character and wanted to keep up with what was done to him. When Firestorm got cancelled in 1990, I thought it would only be a matter of months before we saw Ronnie in another book or team. But it never happened. He made sporadic appearances for over a decade before finally being killed off. So, yes, loyalty to characters is a very big reason why a lot of us keep buying books that may be going through a mediocre run or down period.

But if you like a niche character like Captain Atom or Ant-Man or whoever, there’s no guarantee the company will stick with the version you enjoy if the sales aren’t there.

But, see, that’s the beauty of the “just walk away” approach. There’s no rule that says you have to keep up with a character you ONCE enjoyed and don’t any more.

Blue Devil was a niche character in a marginal book. And I liked his first incarnation a great deal. He got screwed with pretty good and all the fun sucked out of his premise, from what I understand … but I don’t NEED to read Shadowpact or whatever his new book is, knowing that I won’t care for what’s been done to him. I can accept that there are a finite number of Blue Devil stories I will enjoy and STOP THERE. Learn to think of these things as, say, maxi-series that end. Lots of series in other media have a set number of installments, a beginning and end.

That is my suggestion. I can understand the concept of character loyalty and the curiosity to sample a new version. But what is getting into the area of OCD silliness is continuing to buy something, sometimes for a year or longer, when you hate the sample. That’s the OPPOSITE of “loyalty” to the version you like.

Great post. I’ve pretty much decided not to buy anything set in the main Marvel Universe or DCU anymore – I have learned that I’m probably going to hate it. So, most of the current comics I get are Vertigo, Image, or indie.

But the other thing I’ve discovered is going back and reading older comics that I missed. So, I’ve been having a blast working my way through a bunch of Marvel Essentials. I’ve started tracking down the Alan Moore stories that I hadn’t read before. I finally read Art Spiegelman’s Maus. I just read and thoroughly enjoyed Red Son.

There are tons of awesome stories out there, probably more than I will ever be able to get to in my lifetime – so forget about the money, I don’t want to waste my time reading crappy stories I already know I won’t like.

I had sort of a reverse happen to me last year. I started reading “Daredevil” with issue 226 (the issue Frank Miller returned, the one before “Born Again” started), and kept reading until the issue before Typhoid Mary first appeared. I was 11 years old when I dropped the book, and reading Ann Nocenti’s stories involving paranoid kids and impending nuclear fallout wasn’t helping my fears of it at the time (ah, the 1980s…), thus a book that wasn’t all that enjoyable. Forward 19 years, and I ended up buying the rest of her run on DD last year, and damned if I didn’t enjoy it far more than what Brubaker’s doing with the book these days.

Tell that to fans of Ted Kord or Vic Sage or Ronnie Raymond.

Ted Kord has showed up since he died. Vic Sage will, and you admit that Ronnie had appearances after his cancellation. You’re just proving my point.

I have a question for you: How does continuing to support the version you don’t like increase the likelihood they’ll bring back the version you do?

Kind of ignores the whole process of supply and demand.

So, yes, loyalty to characters is a very big reason why a lot of us keep buying books that may be going through a mediocre run or down period.

By the way, I’m well aware of that fact. I just think it’s utterly retarded. A character’s only as consistent as they’re written to be. Consider, for example, Bruce Wayne. He may be identified as the same character you loved in 1955, but if you picked up a Batman book from the 70′s, 80′s, 90′s, or 00′s, chances are pretty high that he wouldn’t be portrayed the same way. So, what are you being loyal to? The name? The pastiche? The costume? None of those things strike me as enough to warrant paying to slog through an awful comic, let alone multiple issues.

Don’t worry, you won’t hurt Firestorm’s feelings when you stop buying his book.

Cei-U! said… “I was certainly guilty of this syndrome until 1988 or so when Big Event Mania drove me away from both Marvel and DC.”

—

Something similar happened to me when I finally burned out on the multi-crossover events from the big two. Once I got it out of my system that I really *didn’t* need to know what was going on in the shared-world setting via stories I knew I wouldn’t like, it was after that a small step to become much more choosy regarding indivdual titles, and dropping them like the proverbial hot potato once they stop becoming enjoyable.

I sometimes think that some comic fans seem to feel that they “owe” it to a title/character that they’ve enjoyed in the past to stick with it, even when the current stories are no longer enjoyable. I’m with Greg on this one: better to enjoy the character/title through back issues back when it was good, rather than suffering through a current run that you find to be excrement, in the hope that the book will somehow get better (as long as you keep picking it up, why should the publishes bother to change it?).

The variation on ‘Krypto-Revisionism’ that I subscribe to is called the ‘Earth-Me’ approach.
All the stories I like happen on ‘Earth-Me’. Everything else is a dream, a hoax, an imaginary story.
Cuts down on a lot of ulcers.

“But, see, that’s the beauty of the “just walk away” approach. There’s no rule that says you have to keep up with a character you ONCE enjoyed and don’t any more.”

Oh I agree with that. Look at my first post in this thread and that’s pretty much what I said. If a book really starts to go downhill or if I don’t like a take on a particular character then I’m willing to walk away and pretend it didn’t happen. Like with Hulk after Peter David or anything done to Flash post-Geoff Johns.

What I was trying to convey in my second post was the dilemma of the niche character and their fans. Ted Kord was never tremendously popular, neither was Vic Sage or any of scores of other characters. But they had a small following who was loyal to them. Now what does that following do, buy whatever comic the character appears in, whether they think it’s good or bad, just to show support for the character? On the hopes that they will eventually receive a version they can live with. Or do they ignore the mediocre stuff, only to have to wake up one day and find their favorite hero with a Max Lord bullet between the eyes? A case of blind loyalty to a character vs. loyalty to one particular version of a character. That’s a trap I’ve fallen into both sides of, as have a lot of comic readers I suspect.

I’m guilty of being a completist. There’s been more than a handful or titles I’ve kept reading even if they’ve been terrible (to me, at least). That said, I’m proud to say I’ve dropped books when they just went too far.

My problem is, I like to pick a round number to jump ship; for example, I bought Aquaman #50 a few months back even though I had no interest in it because it seemed like a good jumping off point. The problem with picking jumping off points that way with series I HAVE to get every issue of is there’s usually something in the book that keeps me reading. I was going to drop Nightwing and then Marv Wolfman comes on; I was going to drop Shadowpact and then Zauriel joins the team; I was drop Supergirl, and then Joe Kelly comes on board; I was going to drop Supergirl again and then they hover-haul the whole team.

That only happens when I consciously drop a book though. Sometimes the books are so bad I just can’t be bothered to pick up new issues. That happened with the Byrne/Mackie Spider-Man run — about three issues in I just couldn’t be bothered after buying all the Spidey titles for three years before.

Have a good day.
John Cage

Apodaca said:
“Ted Kord has showed up since he died.”

What, you mean the two pages in 52? Oooohh, look out world here he comes.

“Vic Sage will,”

He will? Glad you’re a psychic now.

“and you admit that Ronnie had appearances after his cancellation. You’re just proving my point.”

And you totally missed my point. Ronnie never played a major role in the DCU after his book ended. He got relegated to the occasional guest star or cover appearance and that was it. Hardly what I would call a satisfactory treatment to a fan looking for so much more.

“I have a question for you: How does continuing to support the version you don’t like increase the likelihood they’ll bring back the version you do?”

I didn’t say I didn’t like the latter Firestorm issues, just that they were uneven. Some good, some bad. For a more direct answer to your question, see my above answer. It doesn’t. But many fans have chosen the path of ‘any story is better than no story’ when it comes to a character they enjoy and want to support. And it doesn’t have to be a case of “bringing back” a version so much as doing something, anything, with the character they can enjoy. I loved O’Neil’s take on the Vic Sage Question character. I liked Greg Rucka’s too. Two different takes, but both equally enjoyable. And I bought a lot of mediocre comics starring Vic inbetween in the hopes of getting from point A (O’Neil) to point B (Rucka).

Apodaca said:
“Consider, for example, Bruce Wayne. He may be identified as the same character you loved in 1955, but if you picked up a Batman book from the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, or 00’s, chances are pretty high that he wouldn’t be portrayed the same way. So, what are you being loyal to? The name? The pastiche? The costume? None of those things strike me as enough to warrant paying to slog through an awful comic, let alone multiple issues.”

Could be all of the above. Could be something different. Other people just work and think differently than you. I’m sorry you have to hear that, but it’s true. Someone may just like the iconography of a certain character. When you’re talking a fully visual medium like comics, that seems like as good a reason as any. Just like how someone may not like all the actors who portrayed James Bond, but they’ve still seen all the movies because the basics of the character were still there, the iconography was still there.

“Don’t worry, you won’t hurt Firestorm’s feelings when you stop buying his book.”

And you won’t hurt mine with dumbass comments like that either.

Well, I guess you’re entitled to feel that “anything is better tha nothing”, but that’s not really a position to be proud of. It’s the definition of desperation.

I’d rather have nothing than something awful, but to each his own.

And I don’t think calling other people “retarded” over their choice of comic book buying habits is anything to be proud of either. That’s not even desperate, that’s just sad…

Well, see there’s this extremely important difference between what I said and what you accuse me of. I didn’t call anyone retarded because of what they do. I called what they did retarded. My friend is not retarded because he’s an alcoholic, for example. However, getting drunk every day instead of looking for a job IS retarded.

You seem really sensitive. How about this? From now on, when you think I’m insulting you, ask me first. I promise I’ll tell you if I am.

Wow. I just noticed your other response up there.

You’re definitely taking this all WAY too personally. I’m sorry it bothers you that I argue my opinions. I’m sorry you think I’m out to get you. That must be aggravating.

But you’re really overreacting. We’re just arguing about comic books on the internet. No need to get so OFFENDED.

All I have to say is, looking at all the compulsive behavior documented above, I hope none of you people saying “But I HAVE to!” or “I CAN’T stop!” are the same ones that screamed in outrage when I suggested comics fans act like drug addicts.

I, too, have been anally–retentive completist in my time, especially with the Vertigo version of DOOM PATROL, and finally they did kill it.

Note about Firestorm/Ronnie Raymond: When it was cancelled in 1990, I felt it was the end of a very good run and was sorry to see it go. More factually, Ronnie Raymond was no longer part of Firestorm at that point, but the hero was solely Professor Stein, and was supposed to have been all along, Ronnie’s involvement an accident. This is according to the series under discussion, which invalidates much of what was said by Andrew Collins about Ronnie. Following Ronnie over the subsequent years wouldn’t be likely to lead you to a new Firestorm series.

Very interesting post. I’m a recovering compulsive buyer, and I’ve been steadily improving over the last several years. This is my first exposure to the term “Krypto-Revisionism.” The concept, however, is familiar: I stumbled into it by accident myself, thanks to Batman: The Animated Series.

I call it my “Elseworlds” mentality (which pretty much corresponds to “Earth-me” above). Basically, B:TAS and its spin-offs supplanted the DC comics universe for me. They became the “real” thing — all the stuff that’s was published became Elseworlds. Ted Kord dead? Not in my universe. Sue and Ralph dead? No, thank you.

One intriguing thing is that once you allow yourself to start thinking this way, pretty much nothing bothers you any more. Organic webshooters? Okay, why not? I can certainly see that it solves some awkwardness. Elseworlds. And ultimately, it circled back around to the animated “universe” too — if I didn’t like something, it didn’t happen. Elseworlds.

Another side effect of my new outlook is that it really led me away from completism. If none of that stuff is “real,” then heck, I don’t have to buy it. I drop in and out of titles all the time now, no problem. And I spend a lot more of my money on other publishers outside the Big Two. I’m far more inclined to chase quality now that I’ve abandoned completism.

It’s interesting to see how many other people are doing pretty much the exact same thing.

Apodaca said:
“Wow. I just noticed your other response up there.

You’re definitely taking this all WAY too personally. I’m sorry it bothers you that I argue my opinions. I’m sorry you think I’m out to get you. That must be aggravating.

But you’re really overreacting. We’re just arguing about comic books on the internet. No need to get so OFFENDED. ”

No, I am not taking it personally. When I first replied to your assertion about loyalty to characters being silly, there was no malice intended. I was just offering a counterpoint. YOU had to be the one to reply with some smartass comments and start this whole discussion on its obviously downward turn. I was guilty of only sinking to your low level in defending myself against someone who mainly seemed only interest in being as snarky as possible. And please, given you’re the biggest drama queen I’ve seen online (which is saying something), I think you should be the last person accusing someone of overreacting.

“Just walk away.”

I mostly did–I check out a few books here & there and the local library carries the trade paperbacks and other books–so I’ve discovered some good stuff from them–and when that books done I can walk away and leave it there.

If I don’t like it I walk away before I finish it.
Unfortunately I do this more often than not.

Good stories?
I enjoyed the Ballad of Sleeping Beauty a lot–it’s not superhero, so I don’t know how it fits here.

And Darwyn Cook’s New Frontier was a lot of fun, and that’s why I read comics.

True Brit was hilarious and fun.

I’ve enjoyed many of the Elseworlds stories. If I were asked to wirte for DC (which will never happen), I’d want to do an Elseworlds story. Then it can be the DC Universe in my head plus some twists.

When I read any fiction I edit it in my head to the way it ought to be, according to me. I’ve always done that. I see it as a movie, and I’m the one who gets to decide what stays and what goes. Is it a movie? A mini-series?
A documentary even?

That helps in the realm of “Just walk away.”

It was easier than I thought.

I had done that ealrier in my life–but then the JSA mion series followed by the illfated ongoing series arrived, and I was back in.

But I still like superhero stories–and I’m still rewriting elements of Spidey 3 in my mind. Sandman was so unnecessary in that movie–especially his speech to Peter at the end–total padding.

Oh, and getting back to liking the sotry and hating the art–Sandman mystery theatre was a book I bought where I wasn’t too into the art–but liked the stories–so I bought it anyway.