I mostly did--I check out a few books here & there and the local library carries the trade paperbacks and other books--so I've discovered some good stuff from them--and when that books done I can walk away and leave it there.

If I don't like it I walk away before I finish it.
Unfortunately I do this more often than not.

Good stories?
I enjoyed the Ballad of Sleeping Beauty a lot--it's not superhero, so I don't know how it fits here.

And Darwyn Cook's New Frontier was a lot of fun, and that's why I read comics.

True Brit was hilarious and fun.

I've enjoyed many of the Elseworlds stories. If I were asked to wirte for DC (which will never happen), I'd want to do an Elseworlds story. Then it can be the DC Universe in my head plus some twists.

When I read any fiction I edit it in my head to the way it ought to be, according to me. I've always done that. I see it as a movie, and I'm the one who gets to decide what stays and what goes. Is it a movie? A mini-series?
A documentary even?

That helps in the realm of "Just walk away."

It was easier than I thought.

I had done that ealrier in my life--but then the JSA mion series followed by the illfated ongoing series arrived, and I was back in.

But I still like superhero stories--and I'm still rewriting elements of Spidey 3 in my mind. Sandman was so unnecessary in that movie--especially his speech to Peter at the end--total padding.

You’re definitely taking this all WAY too personally. I’m sorry it bothers you that I argue my opinions. I’m sorry you think I’m out to get you. That must be aggravating.

But you’re really overreacting. We’re just arguing about comic books on the internet. No need to get so OFFENDED. "

No, I am not taking it personally. When I first replied to your assertion about loyalty to characters being silly, there was no malice intended. I was just offering a counterpoint. YOU had to be the one to reply with some smartass comments and start this whole discussion on its obviously downward turn. I was guilty of only sinking to your low level in defending myself against someone who mainly seemed only interest in being as snarky as possible. And please, given you're the biggest drama queen I've seen online (which is saying something), I think you should be the last person accusing someone of overreacting.

I call it my "Elseworlds" mentality (which pretty much corresponds to "Earth-me" above). Basically, B:TAS and its spin-offs supplanted the DC comics universe for me. They became the "real" thing -- all the stuff that's was published became Elseworlds. Ted Kord dead? Not in my universe. Sue and Ralph dead? No, thank you.

One intriguing thing is that once you allow yourself to start thinking this way, pretty much nothing bothers you any more. Organic webshooters? Okay, why not? I can certainly see that it solves some awkwardness. Elseworlds. And ultimately, it circled back around to the animated "universe" too -- if I didn't like something, it didn't happen. Elseworlds.

Another side effect of my new outlook is that it really led me away from completism. If none of that stuff is "real," then heck, I don't have to buy it. I drop in and out of titles all the time now, no problem. And I spend a lot more of my money on other publishers outside the Big Two. I'm far more inclined to chase quality now that I've abandoned completism.

It's interesting to see how many other people are doing pretty much the exact same thing.

Note about Firestorm/Ronnie Raymond: When it was cancelled in 1990, I felt it was the end of a very good run and was sorry to see it go. More factually, Ronnie Raymond was no longer part of Firestorm at that point, but the hero was solely Professor Stein, and was supposed to have been all along, Ronnie's involvement an accident. This is according to the series under discussion, which invalidates much of what was said by Andrew Collins about Ronnie. Following Ronnie over the subsequent years wouldn't be likely to lead you to a new Firestorm series.

You're definitely taking this all WAY too personally. I'm sorry it bothers you that I argue my opinions. I'm sorry you think I'm out to get you. That must be aggravating.

But you're really overreacting. We're just arguing about comic books on the internet. No need to get so OFFENDED.

You seem really sensitive. How about this? From now on, when you think I'm insulting you, ask me first. I promise I'll tell you if I am.

I'd rather have nothing than something awful, but to each his own.

Could be all of the above. Could be something different. Other people just work and think differently than you. I'm sorry you have to hear that, but it's true. Someone may just like the iconography of a certain character. When you're talking a fully visual medium like comics, that seems like as good a reason as any. Just like how someone may not like all the actors who portrayed James Bond, but they've still seen all the movies because the basics of the character were still there, the iconography was still there.

"Don’t worry, you won’t hurt Firestorm’s feelings when you stop buying his book."

And you won't hurt mine with dumbass comments like that either.

What, you mean the two pages in 52? Oooohh, look out world here he comes.

"Vic Sage will,"

He will? Glad you're a psychic now.

"and you admit that Ronnie had appearances after his cancellation. You’re just proving my point."

And you totally missed my point. Ronnie never played a major role in the DCU after his book ended. He got relegated to the occasional guest star or cover appearance and that was it. Hardly what I would call a satisfactory treatment to a fan looking for so much more.

"I have a question for you: How does continuing to support the version you don’t like increase the likelihood they’ll bring back the version you do?"

I didn't say I didn't like the latter Firestorm issues, just that they were uneven. Some good, some bad. For a more direct answer to your question, see my above answer. It doesn't. But many fans have chosen the path of 'any story is better than no story' when it comes to a character they enjoy and want to support. And it doesn't have to be a case of "bringing back" a version so much as doing something, anything, with the character they can enjoy. I loved O'Neil's take on the Vic Sage Question character. I liked Greg Rucka's too. Two different takes, but both equally enjoyable. And I bought a lot of mediocre comics starring Vic inbetween in the hopes of getting from point A (O'Neil) to point B (Rucka).

My problem is, I like to pick a round number to jump ship; for example, I bought Aquaman #50 a few months back even though I had no interest in it because it seemed like a good jumping off point. The problem with picking jumping off points that way with series I HAVE to get every issue of is there's usually something in the book that keeps me reading. I was going to drop Nightwing and then Marv Wolfman comes on; I was going to drop Shadowpact and then Zauriel joins the team; I was drop Supergirl, and then Joe Kelly comes on board; I was going to drop Supergirl again and then they hover-haul the whole team.

That only happens when I consciously drop a book though. Sometimes the books are so bad I just can't be bothered to pick up new issues. That happened with the Byrne/Mackie Spider-Man run -- about three issues in I just couldn't be bothered after buying all the Spidey titles for three years before.

Have a good day.
John Cage

Oh I agree with that. Look at my first post in this thread and that's pretty much what I said. If a book really starts to go downhill or if I don't like a take on a particular character then I'm willing to walk away and pretend it didn't happen. Like with Hulk after Peter David or anything done to Flash post-Geoff Johns.

What I was trying to convey in my second post was the dilemma of the niche character and their fans. Ted Kord was never tremendously popular, neither was Vic Sage or any of scores of other characters. But they had a small following who was loyal to them. Now what does that following do, buy whatever comic the character appears in, whether they think it's good or bad, just to show support for the character? On the hopes that they will eventually receive a version they can live with. Or do they ignore the mediocre stuff, only to have to wake up one day and find their favorite hero with a Max Lord bullet between the eyes? A case of blind loyalty to a character vs. loyalty to one particular version of a character. That's a trap I've fallen into both sides of, as have a lot of comic readers I suspect.

---

Something similar happened to me when I finally burned out on the multi-crossover events from the big two. Once I got it out of my system that I really *didn't* need to know what was going on in the shared-world setting via stories I knew I wouldn't like, it was after that a small step to become much more choosy regarding indivdual titles, and dropping them like the proverbial hot potato once they stop becoming enjoyable.

I sometimes think that some comic fans seem to feel that they "owe" it to a title/character that they've enjoyed in the past to stick with it, even when the current stories are no longer enjoyable. I'm with Greg on this one: better to enjoy the character/title through back issues back when it was good, rather than suffering through a current run that you find to be excrement, in the hope that the book will somehow get better (as long as you keep picking it up, why should the publishes bother to change it?).

So, yes, loyalty to characters is a very big reason why a lot of us keep buying books that may be going through a mediocre run or down period.

By the way, I'm well aware of that fact. I just think it's utterly retarded. A character's only as consistent as they're written to be. Consider, for example, Bruce Wayne. He may be identified as the same character you loved in 1955, but if you picked up a Batman book from the 70's, 80's, 90's, or 00's, chances are pretty high that he wouldn't be portrayed the same way. So, what are you being loyal to? The name? The pastiche? The costume? None of those things strike me as enough to warrant paying to slog through an awful comic, let alone multiple issues.

Don't worry, you won't hurt Firestorm's feelings when you stop buying his book.

Tell that to fans of Ted Kord or Vic Sage or Ronnie Raymond.

Ted Kord has showed up since he died. Vic Sage will, and you admit that Ronnie had appearances after his cancellation. You're just proving my point.

I have a question for you: How does continuing to support the version you don't like increase the likelihood they'll bring back the version you do?

Kind of ignores the whole process of supply and demand.

But the other thing I've discovered is going back and reading older comics that I missed. So, I've been having a blast working my way through a bunch of Marvel Essentials. I've started tracking down the Alan Moore stories that I hadn't read before. I finally read Art Spiegelman's Maus. I just read and thoroughly enjoyed Red Son.

There are tons of awesome stories out there, probably more than I will ever be able to get to in my lifetime - so forget about the money, I don't want to waste my time reading crappy stories I already know I won't like.