Secondly I have to question why people associated big, thick lips with being “ape like”. Most apes have thin lips; humans (of any “race”) probably have the fullest lips of all the great and lesser apes.

BTW, since when is Ororo not African herself, as opposed to a black American (who just happened to grow up a street urchin in Africa?) Is this a relatively recent retcon? (And what was the point of it?)

It’s been part of her origin since a year after she was introduced. X-Men #102 had her origin, where it was revealed that her mother is African and her father American.

I didn’t read the issue, so I was going by Brian’s paraphrasing

Okay, I totally get where you’re coming from, now: you’re right, it is easy to read an implication of racism into the paraphrase. If I hadn’t read the issue, I might have come to the same conclusion…

Seems like Pelletier is using Velluto’s depiction as a leaping off point to me (I’m thinking specifically of the ‘Sturm und Drang’ arc in issues 26-29).

Again, I agree, it’s fairly petty for a professional to bother addressing his critics, and it can come off as ‘ridiculous and insecure’.

On the other hand…There’s a major difference between obsessively hunting down every little negative vibe (as per the ‘Mayor Ebert’ character in the Godzilla remake)and simply taking a few playful swipes in return, as McDuffie’s apparently doing here. I still can’t see why a creator isn’t allowed to have as much fun with his creations as the fans are.

Anyway, yes I do have double standards. Whenever you have a big audience with a diverse cross-section, you get all types, from the classy and highbrow to the crass and crude. You can’t please everyone and you have to have a thick skin if you are going to play in the big leagues. If you are a big league baseball player, you can expect some low class drunks to heckly you occasionally. For the most part, the players ignore them on the field and look petty if they stand on the field heckling back. You make movies, you can expect the occasional harsh and nitpicking review from a critic. Most of them don’t address those critics within the content of their follow-up movies. Fans at away games hold up meanspirited signs sometimes from the stands during basketball games, and that’s wrong, but if a basketball player comes out giving the hostile away crowd the finger or holding up his old signs, he looks ridiculous and insecure to get caught up in it because he’s a pro. Spirited criticism is just the nature of mass entertainment. So long as it doesn’t get personal and nasty, it’s fair game. Don’t do a profession where you have tens of thousands of people judging you if you can’t handle bad feedback. Or at least keep that stuff on the message boards where it belongs.

I didn’t read the issue, so I was going by Brian’s paraphrasing:

cute meta-moment where McDuffie has T’Challa comment that a lot of people seem to have a problem with him having so many achievements

So in my mind, I pictured T’Challa telling someone “Gee, it seems that a lot of people have a problem with me having so many achievements. Hmmm, I wonder why?”

Imagining it that way, it seemed that racism was being implied. Based on what you quoted, however, I admit it does seem to be a little different than the way Brian paraphrased.

Plus, it seems like he’s trying to imply racism on the part of fans..what else can he be getting at with that comment?

Okay, now you’ve just gone right ’round the bend. There isn’t a word of that exchange that implies racism. Quoted for everyone who didn’t buy the book:

BP: I still don’t understand what you could have done to him to create such enmity.

RR: Nothing.

RR: He truly believes that my achievements somehow lessen his own.

OM: T’challa gets a lot of that, too.

RR: As Ben said, it’s irrational.

Want to highlight the implied racism in there, for me?

And while I didn’t read the exchange as a poke at the whiny fanboys, I can totally see how someone would take it that way. However, I agree with those who say “and?”

So what? Writers drop references to tv, songs, movies and books all the time – why not to internet bitchiness, as well? The conversation didn’t break the flow of the story, and the exchange didn’t break the flow of the conversation. Reed was making a point, Storm seconded it, the story moved on. If it was supposed to be an attack on the fanboys, it was the most oblique attack ever…

Except for people like me, who use our real names. As, for that matter, does McDuffie when he enters the fray on occasion.

“Rightly or wrongly, heated and sometimes irrational debate is just the nature of the beast. Whatever.”

Jesus, you have low standards.

“But a professional writer should be above working something so petty into the actual story, I think. Maybe it’s a double standard,”

It is. Why not equally deride the petty behavior on the part of the readers? What’s good for the goose, etc.

“but I hold pros to a higher standard, at least within the pages of their books. “Second, I don’t think the argument over the Surfer and TChalla was THAT irrational.”

And you are entirely entitled to that wrong opinion.

“There were persuasive arguments on both sides of the debate,”

Given your previously defined standards, I find this assessment suspect.

“and I don’t think fans deserve to be called out just for disagreeing with a particular depiction.”

Why not? If they choose to make asses of themselves in public, why is it poor form to point this out? Especially in a far more subdued and civil manner than any of the aforementioned posters bothered to show McDuffie.

“It’s part of the job, just move on.”

Being insulted by fanatics isn’t part of any job.

Well, Brian, to the fans who get — what’s a good phrase? Wait, I’ve got it — petty and pissy over stuff like T’Challa getting the upper hand over the Surfer, it’s not light-hearted fun. The Established Power Level Pecking Order is Serious Business.

There is a difference. First, it’s an internet message board with anonymous posters. Rightly or wrongly, heated and sometimes irrational debate is just the nature of the beast. Whatever. But a professional writer should be above working something so petty into the actual story, I think. Maybe it’s a double standard, but I hold pros to a higher standard, at least within the pages of their books. Second, I don’t think the argument over the Surfer and TChalla was THAT irrational. There were persuasive arguments on both sides of the debate, and I don’t think fans deserve to be called out just for disagreeing with a particular depiction. It’s part of the job, just move on.

I don’t think it’s cute. It comes off intrusive, petty, and just pissy. What, is he carrying on his message board debate over the Silver Surfer fight into the actual comic book? Geez, man, grow up! Plus, it seems like he’s trying to imply racism on the part of fans..what else can he be getting at with that comment? I’m already not that big a fan of McDuffie, and this just encourages me to ignore all the positive reviews of this book and continue to avoid buying it, as he seems to still have some of those annoying habits I hate.

Oh, I think it was a bad scene, too.

Just a cute bad scene.

Well, Brian, to the fans who get — what’s a good phrase? Wait, I’ve got it — petty and pissy over stuff like T’Challa getting the upper hand over the Surfer, it’s not light-hearted fun. The Established Power Level Pecking Order is Serious Business.