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CBR Live! Archive

Friday Adapted For The Screen

Ever since I started this weekly column gig, there's one home truth I keep colliding with, over and over again. It keeps coming up in new and different ways, but the conclusion is inescapable.More...

That basic truth is: I am living in that golden geek paradise I dreamed of when I was a teenager.

This is why, when I was the CBR TV/Film Forum administrator, I never had a moment's patience for the malcontents who would rage on for page after page about the travesty!! of a Spider-Man film that gave Peter organic webshooters!!... or whatever. For God's sake. Some of us remember Nicholas Hammond.

You could have had THIS guy, you whiners. Be grateful. But at least he had mechanical webshooters!

So my response to this kind of fan whining was mostly a bewildered, Organic webshooters? THAT'S your big deal-breaker? What the hell is wrong with you? Fans of my generation were thrilled to get a Peter that at least was the right age in the first Spider-Man movie, a Peter who was a nerdy loser kid that learned about power and responsibility from the tragic death of his Uncle Ben. I really do think the modern comics audience is spoiled rotten when it comes to television and film adaptations. To pitch a fit about missing some arcane detail when the current Hollywood crop is getting so much right is really missing the forest for a group of pretty scrawny trees.

Which is not to say that we should just be blindly grateful for everything. That's not my point at all. I guess where I'm going with this is... be aware of the requirements involved in adapting one medium to another. Ask yourself if whatever changes are made involve a key component of the story, or is it a cosmetic choice only? Is the essence still there?

Just this last week I encountered three examples of comics-to-film and they ran the full range. One was a joy. The second was okay, but I think some mistakes were made. The third was a train wreck that managed to miss the entire point of what was supposed to be fun about the comic in the first place. What struck me about it, though, is that all three made fairly serious changes in the basic story from their respective original texts. It was almost a classroom set of adaptation examples: doing it right, doing it passably well, and and doing it completely wrong.

The one that was so right, so well-done it left Julie and I both grinning like idiots from start to finish, was Stardust.

Such a joyous film.

Now, you have to understand, we were a tough audience for this one. Both my wife and I are huge fans of the original Stardust book. I gave it to Julie for her birthday when we were first dating, because I knew that she would love it, and she did.

Almost impossible to film OR live up to expectations.... and yet, it happened.

So this was a movie that we were anticipating with that mix of frenzied excitement and horror that you always get when they make a movie out of something that you really, really love. We were cautiously optimistic -- "Gaiman's involved, he didn't write the screenplay, but he has input..." You know how fans talk, constantly speculating about this or that production news bite and wondering what it means. This was how we were for Stardust. Excited and happy, fearful and agitated, wanting it to be great and terrified it would be awful.

It's an adorable movie.

And... we were blown away.

There were changes, yes, but they were good changes. They made thematic sense. And in one case -- extensive changes to the original ending -- it may well have saved the movie from being a box-office bomb.

Neil Gaiman's been very straightforward in interviews about how the original ending of Stardust, the book, would have been horridly anti-climactic for Stardust, the movie. So he sat down with Matthew Vaughn, the director, and Jane Goldman, the screenwriter, and they worked out a way to get Tristan and Yvaine to more or less the same resolution, but by a completely alternate path. It works beautifully, it's got the same intricately interlocking style of plot that the book ending had, and the fun of it for the hardcore Stardust fans is that it makes the story experience new again.

Think about that. You get to see something you love through new eyes, to have that feeling of discovery again. Isn't that the whole point of doing an adaptation in the first place?

The cast is terrific, the visuals are extraordinary, and of course all that plays into it as well. It certainly helps to have good actors giving their best, and Charlie Cox as Tristan especially has a star-making turn; that kid's going to have a great career. But it was the screenplay we were scrutinizing, and that was what we were so overjoyed to see. It's faithful but not slavish. It feels like a Gaiman story. It works.

That was the brilliant example. Now let's look at the merely okay one.

I did enjoy this. I wanted to enjoy it MORE, though.

Doctor Strange is easily my favorite Marvel character. Has been since I first encountered the Lee-Ditko Doc, shortly after he upgraded his cloak from blue to red.

Of course you have to start with Ditko.

Like most of us back then, I fell in love with the Ditko visuals; not just the trippy psychedelic stuff, but the whole shadowy fluid style he was using in his inks. It was... well, in forty years, "cool" is the only word I have managed to come up with to explain what made Doc special. Spider-Man was likable. The Fantastic Four were exciting. Captain America was heroic. But Dr. Strange was cool, man.

I had that same vibe off Doc when I re-discovered his adventures in the 70's. First in the Defenders and then the brilliant Steve Englehart run in Strange's own book. This was the guy that, of all the Marvel heroes, when he walked into a room, he owned it, because he knew more than you did. Englehart gave Strange a line that's stuck with me for years that summed it up--

"I am a Sorcerer Supreme, a man of knowledge -- while you are only a man of learning! You think magic is no more than obscure phrases and arcane gestures, a recipe to be read and applied! Such a belief may take you far, Dagger -- but not as far as I have gone!!"

My favorite Doc.

Then, Stephen handed Silver Dagger's ass to him. It was what Dave at the Long Box likes to call a F*@% Yeah! moment. You'll find it in the trade collection A Separate Reality, or the upcoming Essential Dr. Strange Volume Three. Recommended. A lot.

So anyway. I dig Dr. Strange. I was completely in love with the concept of the one man who actually knows what's going on, who's set himself to stand guard against all the nasty things lurking Out There in the Dark. The guy who can step between space and time to keep your dreams safe while you're sleeping... because that nightmare thing? It really IS real.

I was ridiculously excited to hear that there was going to be a movie.

Probably the coolest thing about the 1978 movie was all the Phil DeGuere artwork.

Seriously. Back in 1978 I saw that in TV Guide and just went nuts. Oh my Gawd. A Doc MOVIE!!

And admit it, that ad makes it look like the real deal. (Actually, writer and director Philip DeGuere did a lot of production drawings and art for the movie, and he's good. I'm pretty sure that's one of his too.)

Sadly, the movie didn't quite live up to expectations.

It's kind of embarrassing, but... I love this movie.

But -- and here's where some of you may groan, but hear me out -- I still have some affection for this effort. Jessica Walter and Sir John Mills are both terrific in it. Even Clyde Kusatsu as Wong is pretty good. Unfortunately, they can't save the movie from the utter stiff that is Peter Hooten as Dr. Strange, but by God they try. Sadly, Eddie Benton as Clea is even worse.

The budget is a bit too low and it shows. It was 1978, after all, there was no such thing as CGI. Shadowy lighting will only cover so much. But there was an attempt to evoke Ditko and Brunner in the designs, it was clear that DeGuere had read the comics, he had the sense that Stephen Strange is the guy that knows to stand guard against the things from other dimensions. So many people involved with this adaptation were trying. That's why I can't hate this movie.

But Philip DeGuere made a fatal mistake -- I mean, in addition to casting Peter Hooten and Eddie Benton -- and oddly enough, it's the mistake the animated version makes again, thirty years later. In fact, it's a mistake that J. Michael Straczynski made in the recent Strange mini-series, too.

Didn't love this one so much.

Here's the mistake, and it's why all these talented people who clearly have great affection for the original material can do their best and still only almost get it right.

They all do the origin first.

For some superhero stories -- Spider-Man, say -- you have to do the origin first, it's fundamental. But for other heroes I think it works better to have the origin come later. Sam Hamm said in interviews many times that he finally cracked the original Batman screenplay by dumping the origin stuff completely, starting with Batman already fighting crime and working backwards to Bruce Wayne. Likewise, in Batman Begins it opens with the adult Bruce Wayne in China already on his journey and works backward to the death of his parents.

The Dr. Strange origin story is a good story. It's a classic journey-of-discovery setup: An arrogant materialistic jerk discovers the power of the spiritual world by finding his own spiritual side.

Not GREAT, but, you know, okay.

And the animated cartoon that came out this week does a bang-up job of showing us that. It's a good version of the origin story, well-told. I think I take issue with the flashbacks of Stephen losing his beloved sister to some kind of neurological illness when he was in med school -- Frank Paur argues in the accompanying featurette that they felt it was necessary to show the reason Dr. Strange the surgeon was such a jackass, and my feeling is that people often get to be arrogant jackasses precisely because they never have to really face adversity. However, that's just cosmetic and you can argue either side of it.

But the thing that you trip over when you make your story all about Dr. Strange's origin, is that then your Dr. Strange story doesn't actually have Dr. Strange in it. It's all set-up and exposition. Stephen Strange the rookie magician isn't really Dr. Strange. He's not the man of knowledge. He's not cool. Not yet. He's going to be, but that guy isn't in the origin story. And if this is your big chance to show people what he's about -- say, a mass-market DVD cartoon, or a made-for-TV movie, or a revived comic-book series -- you want to get the A-list stuff front and center. You want to show off the cool Dr. Strange. You can't do it with the origin.

The animated cartoon suffers from this. For most of it Wong is the cool guy, the man of knowledge, and Stephen Strange is following him around trying to figure out what's going on. Honestly it kept reminding me of The Karate Kid, with Stephen as the kid and the Ancient One as Mr. Miyagi. It's good, it's well-written, it looks great, it's got lots of nods to the comics and it doesn't mess with too much of the established milieu... but still, I think it was the wrong choice of story. I wanted Dr. Strange, Sorcerer Supreme. Instead I got young Stephen Strange and his journey to becoming a promising student of the mystic arts; the Sorcerer Supreme I had hoped to see didn't show up till the last minute or so of the movie. So... it was just okay. Good effort, but in the end I'm afraid it goes in the same pile as Phil DeGuere's. Well-intentioned, hit a lot of the right notes, but not what we were hoping for. Almost but not quite.

Then there was the train wreck. This one was just awful. Bill Reed was smart and quit two minutes in, but I foolishly went the distance with Sci-Fi's new Flash Gordon.

Bad on almost every level.

Now, I'm not an Alex Raymond purist. In fact, I don't think there are too many Raymond purists left.

The original.

I love that stuff, of course, but I think there's room for other versions. There have been quite a few and Alex Raymond approved many of them.

Gold Key took a swing at it in the 70's...

The truth of the matter is that most people, any more, will think of Sam Jones' movie if they think of any version at all when they hear the name Flash Gordon.

And this is the one most non-comics people remember.

And certainly the movie has its fans. My wife Julie loves it and I hear Alex Ross thinks it's the greatest movie ever. I thought it was all right.

But oh my God it was High Art compared to what Sci-Fi foisted on us last week.

And -- here's the important part, the unification of the thesis -- the things that were wrong with Sci-Fi's new show can completely be traced to a basic failure to grasp the needs of adaptation.

Again, it looked like everyone in the cast was trying hard. You certainly got the sense that Eric Johnson as Flash and the folks surrounding him were leaning into it.

The show is trying so hard to be smarter than the material, and it's just not.

I've known a lot of actors and theater folks over the years and you get a sense after a while of when they're just in it for a check, or slumming in something they hate because it's a stepping-stone to their Real Work. That's not the case here. These guys are all trying hard and I feel guilty busting on them. But the truth is... they're not very good.

I WANT to like this show. I do. But it's just plain bad.

Particularly colorless was Gina Holden as Dale Arden. I'm not sure how much of this was her fault, because she got almost nothing to work with. Likewise Jody Racicot as Zarkov seems to have gotten direction that began and ended with "be twitchy."

But the problem is really the script and beyond that, the whole vision of what the show's going to be. It's a completely wrongheaded adaptation.

What's wrong with it? Well, they missed the basic idea. You can't go much wronger than that.

Eric Johnson's working hard... but his show, sadly, just sucks.

Flash Gordon is about space adventure. It's about a young hero and his girl and their eccentric friend having exotic adventures Out There. Sci-Fi gave us a show that was about aliens secretly invading here. On Earth.

Every other bonehead decision springs from that. Sci-Fi's show is insanely Earthbound for a Flash Gordon adaptation. It's almost got a screw-you-fanboy vibe to it. "You want traditional Flash Gordon? The hell with that." The climax -- and this is after the story's taken Flash and Dale to Mongo and back again -- is a car chase on back roads to a field. I can think of lots of dramatic things to do to wrap up a Flash Gordon pilot movie, even a low-budget one, and none of them involve a car chase, for Christ's sake. It was more of a Dukes of Hazzard moment than a Flash Gordon one, even if the showdown in the field did involve ray guns and a dimensional rift.

I understand it's cable. I understand the need to cut costs. But Babylon 5 faced a lot of the same limitations and managed to surmount them. If you're going to adapt a property known primarily as a space adventure story, you ought to try and put some space adventure in it. Instead, Sci-Fi's Flash Gordon is trying to position itself as... I'm not sure what. "A re-imagining" is probably how they tried to sell it, but there is painfully little imagination on display here.

I'm not against the concept of re-imagining things. I'm okay with the idea of adapting and updating. Ming the Merciless probably needed some kind of updated design from his Yellow Peril origins. But what we got was generic, a vaguely militaristic suit and an actor who looks like a pissed-off banker, underplaying to such an extent that you can almost hear him thinking, "I don't want to come off as too cartoony." That kind of thinking plagues the whole endeavor. It's almost as though everyone involved is afraid to look like, well, "something out of Flash Gordon."

Which is a silly attitude when you're actually doing Flash Gordon. Somewhere, whether they admit to it or not, the people involved with making this show have decided that they are ashamed of the material it came from. That mindset -- unspoken contempt for the original version -- will tank your adaptation no matter how hard your young actors might be trying.

Look at it this way. Lois & Clark took a lot of liberties, they did a lot of winking at the audience, they did a lot of "updating" and "re-imagining," but never did I get the sense that anyone involved with the show didn't like Superman. Nor do I ever get that vibe off Smallville. Hell, I didn't even get that feeling from the Adam West Batman; they kidded the conventions of comics, yeah, and some fans are still smarting over that -- but Dozier and the 1966 Batman crew never came off as though they hated comics. The new Flash Gordon does. It's as though it wants to be seen as anything but Flash Gordon.

It's a pity, because the original Flash Gordon was at least fun. Sci-Fi has given us a dreary, generic youth-demographic show that looks as though it's been over-thought and over-analyzed to death, trying desperately to not be a "comic-book show" but in doing so, turning itself into just another forgettable TV show aimed at whoever watches all those other TV shows starring young pretty people who can't act.

Um... what show is this again? I can't tell. It's generic.

I don't like panning the show, honest. I had real hopes for this. I like Flash Gordon -- the original idea -- and I'd love to see an "updated version" that had some snap and wit and imagination to it. But this isn't it.

I can't get too depressed, though, because at the end of the day, I live in a world where I can see three comics-to-film adaptations in a week and two out of the three are good. There are more on the way and I hear good things about quite a few of them, particularly the new Iron Man and Hulk movies. And even better, all the comic book stuff, the original source material, is available to me reasonably cheap with just a couple of mouse clicks at Amazon or eBay.

For a guy like me, that's still living the dream, baby. Even crappy adaptations can't take the shine off that... because believe me, they ALL used to look like this new Flash Gordon. Let's not get too strung out over organic webshooters and such in the meantime.

See you next week.

  • Posted on August 17, 2007 @ 11:52 PM

32 Comments

Great essay (although a little more analysis of why Stardust works would have balanced out the other two). I actually switched to Flash Gordon last night and was only watching it out of the corner of my eye; if i hadn't known it was Flash, I woulda thought it was just another generic no-brand-name Sci Fi Channel movie. It gave us the worst sin an action show can have: it was boring, and filled with sexual innuendo of the sort the 1980s Buck Rogers was crammed with, but at least Buck had flying spaceships and dastardly villains and robots and ray guns.

I didn't see it, since I have an amazing reflexive "oh-god-it's-gonna-be-crap" sense (I was bitten by Joel Schumacher--long story)...but just looking at those stills made my eyes hurt. That doesn't even look like a professional TV production of any sort, let alone Flash Gordon. If you'd told me that was an amateur fan-made direct-to-DVD-bootleg, I'd believe it. A Sci-Fi channel show?

...that's supposed to be at least one step up from that, right? (Rimshot.)

I can't think of anything worse than a toned down Flash Gordon. Flash has to be camp. Liberace camp. That's why the 80's movie was so awesome.

Uatu the Box Office Watcher

August 18, 2007 at 6:19 am

"...[changing the ending] may well have saved the movie from being a box-office bomb."

It still bombed, check out boxofficemojo. Can a particular ending even make a movie bomb, period? Anyone have any examples of this?

I thought the Doctor Strange movie was the best of the TV adaptations that came out around that time. I even liked it better than the Hulk, because 55 minutes of Eddie's father and 5 minutes of Hulk smashing just didn't cut it for me.

We truly are in a Golden Age of fanboy movies, and of comic book adaptations in general.

Always remember that it could be worse. The Red Skull could be Italian.

Most excellent essay. I had no idea the Hammond Spider-Man was that cheezy. Ye gods.

I seem to be in a tiny minority here, but I thought they really screwed up Stardust. Why? BLots of reasons, having to do with destroying the tone and the characterizations, but my big problem is simply this: in the book, Tristran says he'll bring back a falling star to win Victoria, and she laughing agrees as a joke, to get rid of him. When Tristran returns, she feels awful because she didn't think he'd take her seriously, and she was already engaged--she was being a bit flighty, but she didn't mean any harm. In the movie, Victoria is a cartoonish bitch who not only is dead serious about Tristan getting the star, she sets a frikkin' deadline for him! ANd she tells him she's engaged right up front. TO me that throws the whole setup desperately out of whack, and dumbs down the whole story immeasurably. It's not a bad movie, of course, but it's a big step down from the book.

It still bombed, check out boxofficemojo. Can a particular ending even make a movie bomb, period? Anyone have any examples of this?

I was thinking of The Great Waldo Pepper, in particular; William Goldman's always said the movie worked great until the girl dies and the whole tone changed. Turner & Hooch, which Tom Hanks has always said was well-received until the the dog died, changed tone that way as well.

Now, there might very well BE lots of other reasons for those movies to have failed, but the people in and around them for years have always said the primary trouble was the endings are unsatisfying and changed tone. Stardust's original ending is that kind of tonal change -- it's bittersweet and for a movie, really anti-climactic; just people walking around the fairy market who don't realize how the others have impacted their lives.

Box-office wise I thought Stardust was doing all right; not a huge hit but doing okay. I was going off what we're seeing at theatres here, people seemed to really love it and it was doing business according to the papers here. But I'm not going to argue with a guy who calls himself the Box Office Watcher. If it isn't doing well, it's a shame, because it's really good on its own merits. It ISN'T the book, but it FEELS like the book. That's what I was trying to say.

Dan K said … "Flash has to be camp."

I don't agree with this, but I do feel that anything that calls itself Flash Gordon needs to be big, bombastic, and over the top. It certainly can't be afraid of its pulp roots.

It also needs, as Greg pointed out, to be a space adventure, and furthermore, it needs to be Flash, Dale, and Zarkov *stranded* in space. Anything else is missing the point.

I haven't seen it yet, although I have the pilot episode on tape. From what I've read here and elsewhere, I'm not in any hurry to remedy that.

As always, great column.

I have almost *all* of the old Marvel masterpieces on tape, from when Sci-Fi used to have regular marathons. I have fond memories of the Hammond Spider-Man. I also liked the Salinger Captain America a *lot.* Hooten Strange, not so much. Maybe I should dig it out again, but I remember it being a plodded, boring mess. My tastes have since changed, however.

I once again tried to watch Flash, and once again couldn't stomach five minutes. It's mind-numbingly awful.

I'll catch Stardust one day. I have the book-- the all-prose, no-Vess version, anyway-- and want to read through that first.

(And since you brought up Turner & Hooch-- great movie. Tom Hanks at his finest. Seriously. I adore it. The best find ever was when I was in Sam's Club and snagged a DVD two-pack containing Turner & Hooch and Dick Tracy. Huzzah.)

The Peter Hooten Strange can trace most of its problems to the first half being all exposition, and the rest of its problems are Peter Hooten and Eddie Benton (Anne-Marie Martin.) That's always been my feeling. You could have made it as John Mills vs. Jessica Walter and it would have been a million times better movie; hell, Sir John essentially IS the older comic-book Dr. Strange as it's written in this, he's a guy with graying temples living in Greenwich Village fighting secret battles with demons and looking stuff up in musty old books while Wong waits on him. That's Doc. And I love all his scenes with Jessica Walter as Morgan. It's when Hooten shows up that it all fizzles, he drags the whole thing down.

But I still like it. Everybody AROUND Hooten is great. The trouble is you can't really shoot around your lead.

Nice work on this. I'd be hard-pressed to agree with you any more than I already do, on pretty much every point.
I haven't caught the new Dr. Strange DVD yet, but I'm more keen to check it out now than I had been. I only vaguely recall the 1978 movie version, as I only saw it once, far too many years ago. I did catch a few mintues of Flash Gordon and found myself utterly uninterested. Based on what I'd read about it prior to reading this, I kind of got the impression that it was made with contempt for the source material.
When I encounter that attitude I'm always reminded of the Dolph Lundgren "Punisher" movie. I remember reading that the skull shirt was left out because they didn't want to make it look like a comic book movie. *Sigh*
It's remembering things like that, and how bad it used to be, that makes me appreciate this golden age we live in, even with the occasional misstep.

True. Remember it wasn't that long ago that Jon Peters wanted a Superman movie minus the red and blue suit and with him fighting a giant spider.

Dan K said … “Flash has to be camp.”

"I don’t agree with this, but I do feel that anything that calls itself Flash Gordon needs to be big, bombastic, and over the top. It certainly can’t be afraid of its pulp roots."

That's pretty much what I meant by camp.

The people making FLASH GORDON seem to have just gotten a terrible case of playing it safe (probably one of them worked on the STAR TREK franchise and was infected)- the wimpy Ming and Zarkov, the small and cheap set-up, and you know, you don't have to use Queen's theme music or even the cover they've been using in the ads, but OPENING TITLES of some sort would be nice. (Of course, there's also a terminal case of not-enough-money.)

I do think doing DR. STRANGE's origins first are a mistake- the 70s TV movie, which was kinda good in itself, made the same mistake. It ended just as Dr. Strange began, and since no series came of it that was all we got.

No opinion on STARDUST, though I will try to see it before it leaves theaters.

It seems to me that (almost) every other-media adaptation starts with the origin story. [For better or worse, I'm referring to superhero-type movies, not things like "Road to Perdition."] Which is OK for a TV series - live action or animated - but in a TV Movie or cinema movie that's pretty much all you get; or at best it's half origin and half "The Adventures of ExampleMan." And while it's good to know the origin, if it's all about the origin they never have time to get to the "good stuff." There was one movie I remember seeing where the character didn't even get his/her name until the very end - naturally I don't remember which one. Possibly the Reb Brown version of Captain America.

Interesting stuff. I own a lot of the adaptations from the bad old days on DVD, and while I usually enjoy the hell out of them, I'm sure I would have been mortified if I saw them when they were released/first aired and was expecting something better.

'Stardust' definitely hasn't set the box office alight so far, but it's not necessarily a failure yet. I realise that if something doesn't do well in its opening weekend, it's instantly seen as a disaster, but because of precisely the sort of tonal shifts Greg was talking about, the movie might get a positive word-of-mouth happening that brings in audiences in later weeks. It's bound to make a mint on DVD, anyway.

You mentioned that you enjoyed Charlie Cox's performance, Greg- I've got an interview with him in a couple of days, don't suppose there's anything specific about his performance or the production you'd like answered?

The 'Origin-First' approach is, I think, a big reason why I'm still so cautious about the upcoming Iron Man film. They've got a great cast and a cool trailer, but so much of it appears to be an origin story. And the recent Iron Man DTV movie, which was also mostly an origin story, bored me senseless.

Conversely, the lack of an 'origin-first' approach is a very good reason to be excited about the new Hulk movie.

This just reminds me how much I miss having Dr. Strange around in a good comic. Sigh. When was the last time it was even good? Stern/Marshall era? (And there were all these house ads advertising that Frank Miller was going to be drawing it ages ago ... what happened there?)

Also, the new Flash Gordon?

HORRIBLE wardrobe on those actors.

Dear lord.

Louis Bright-Raven

August 19, 2007 at 1:52 pm

You missed one, Greg. Underdog. Come back next week and tell us about that one. (Hey, can it really be any worse than FLASH GORDON?)

Joecab, from what I heard, last good Doc story was Brian K. Vaughn's "The Oath". Only a years or so back, even!

Haven't read it myself, unfortunatly.

It sounds like we mostly have Battlestar Galactica 2.0 to blame for the "de-camped" Flash. BG2 is a concept that absolutely should not work on paper; it's something of a miracle that it's as great as it is. But it helps that they took a story that was never more than a pale imitation of Star Wars (apparently; haven't seen it). Flash Gordon, of course, was great in its day, and is much more a part of the culture than BG could ever have hoped to be, so taking the "stripped-down, gritty" approach was destined to fail.

I kind of worry that we're entering the same era for cinematic SF as we did for comics in the early 90s: everything "cheesy" and "over-the-top" and "goofy" has to be stripped away from existing concepts in order to make them "dark" and "edgy" and "relevant". Also, "boring". I like serious SF, but I miss the days when you could put something as dementedly over-the-top as "Zardoz" on movie screens. Yes, I just expressed nostalgia for "Zardoz". THAT HAPPENED.

This just reminds me how much I miss having Dr. Strange around in a good comic. Sigh. When was the last time it was even good? Stern/Marshall era? (And there were all these house ads advertising that Frank Miller was going to be drawing it ages ago … what happened there?)

I dunno, I really don't want a Frank Miller version. "By Hoggoth, the bastard's big. Felt two ribs go. Suppress it. Remember India. There is no pain." CRUNNNCH! "Blacking out --"

The Oath was good. So was the mini that came out in the 90's, Paul Chadwick worked on it, and I think Williams. But ongoing? You'd have to reach back a bit further. I can't speak to the ongoing after Starlin, that's when I left (Yeah, I'm that old) and though I always try the new ones, I haven't really enjoyed any except the two I mentioned. I sampled the Roy Thomas one and left right after the Montesi forumla story.

Craig Russell's re-do of the 70's Annual was very good, too. "What Is It That Disturbs You, Stephen?"

WHY they can't do a good Strange ongoing baffles me. Lots of talented folks have expressed a desire to try.

Prankster:

The other, bigger, reason for BG's success and FG's failure is that Ronald D. Moore revamped Battlestar. Moore wrote for years for Star Trek shows, before quitting because he thought Voyager was stupid. Flash was revamped by Peter Hume, who wrote some episodes of Relic Hunter and Charmed. It's crappiness is unsurprising.

As for no-fun sci-fi, Eureka's a pretty good show on SciFi that might be the closest you can get to what you're looking for right now. It has a few dark moments, and is rarely over the top, but it's mostly wacky fun with crazy science.

I forgot to mention - even when the hero isn't all-Origin Story, the villain is (i.e. Batman 1989).

That's why sequels to adaptations are so much more enjoyable (at least for me) than the originals: no origins. We just dive right into the story, with the character already established, kicking butt and taking names.

Unfortunately, if the original isn't successful enough (or a property without a high enough profile) we may never get that second, kick ass non-origin film. A Dr. Strange direct-to-DVD animated movie is the perfect example a movie that needs to fit all the awesome it can into the first one, because we may not get another.

(Incidentally, I haven't seen it yet, but will. And the Vaughan Dr. Strange mini was most excellent. Someone needs to pick up that ball and run with it in an ongoing.)

Love your new comics brought to the screen that is what I view Harry Potter as is the ultimate comic brought to life . I love the colors they used life is all about color unfortunately the new book I am writing will have to be in black and white because of money issues I am working to make it a comic book but am coming up with problems getting it to print right .

Dan K said … "That’s pretty much what I meant by camp."

I guess we're working from different definitions of 'camp'. Star Wars, for example, is big, over-the-top adventure, but I wouldn't call it camp (not in the sense that the 60's Batman tv series was camp, at least).

Flash Gordon, above all, must be gorgeous to look at. Lush scenery, gleaming art deco spires reaching for the sky, beautiful people in skintight clothing with blaster guns and jet packs straight from Raymond Loewy's drawing table.

The original comics were extremely derivative; one could instantly tell what Alex Raymond had read or seen in any given week as Flash and Dale wandered from undersea kingdom to forest kingdom to arctic land to the home of the hawk-people. Prince Barin is Robin Hood and Ming was Fu Manghu, with no apologies. The plot didn't matter, as long as it was bright and exciting and full of imaginative creature-people, and was gorgeous to look at.

If you're going to do Flash Gordon, the one person you cannot skimp on is the production designer. It's all about the sets and costumes. It has to be.

Wow I love Stardust!! I never realized it was a comic!

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