Comic Book Resources

Lists Should Be Good? God, I hope that something like Superboy Prime doesn't take a high spot...

**raises hand, emphatically**

Ooo! Ooo! I have a question!

Is "Ultimate Spider-Man" a different character from "Spider-Man?" Huh, is he, is he?

Superboy Prime will be at least top ten, I bet.

Good question, Dave. I edited the piece to address it.

When you say Vertigo, is that everything, not just stuff associated with the main DCU like Sandman or Swamp Thing?

No licensed characters? Does ROM not count!? Nooooooo

If you don't vote for Stegron I will come to your house and beat up your pets.

Starting with that fucking goldfish.

That is all.

So is it supposed be the top ten DC, the top ten Marvel AND a top ten Over All?

This better not end up being like that sucky DC list where Batman and Superman were one and two. The Marvel list was decent: Dr. Doom at number one, Emma Frost and Beta Ray Bill in the top ten, et cetera. The DC list was just completely lacking in personality beyond an appearance by Space Cabby in the top twenty, and Space Cabby only made it in because of a stupid website campaign.

So is it supposed be the top ten DC, the top ten Marvel AND a top ten Over All?

Top ten DC/ Top Ten Marvel

When you say Vertigo, is that everything, not just stuff associated with the main DCU like Sandman or Swamp Thing?

No, anyone at Vertigo.

So Jesse Custer counts.

Now if my favorite character is say... Penance, then will my vote be added to everyone that votes for Speedball or are those considered two different characters?

Hmm... my first draft contained no women at all. I can't decide if that is an honest critique of traditionally poorly written female characters in comics, or if I'm a misogynist.

Now if my favorite character is say… Penance, then will my vote be added to everyone that votes for Speedball or are those considered two different characters?

I would discount it on principle.

Seriously, I would count it towards Speedball.

I imagine the Warriors Three would also count as one choice.

Paste-Pot-Pete is the greatest character ever. The Porcupine is #2.

Now taking bets at where Wolverine, Spider-Man, Batman and Supes come in...

Are we all going to be esoteric with our choices? Lists full of Teutonic Knight, Paris of The Pantheon and Squire Shade?

I'm looking forward to it...

What about the Top Ten Indie characters?

Here's a vote for the Maverick Minstrel. (Hello, obscurity!)

I've submitted my list already - I've ended up with a mixture of obvious choices and more obscure characters, including 2 who, I guarantee will get no other votes from anyone else but remain my favourites, which, after all is partially the point.

what about DC animated versions.

The Bruce Timm Animated batman is the perfect Batman.

I've submitted my list--obviously, I can't convince anyone to agree with me, but if Hitman's not on your DC list, I'll have to kill everyone you've ever loved.

Questions!

1. Would you count "The ClanDestine" as one?
2. Would you count the "GLA/GLX/GLI" as one?
3. Do "Watchmen" and "V for Vendetta" count?
4. Can I vote for "Silver Age Superman" but not modern Superman?

Best Marvel character ever......

Gronk!
"Musclebound Master of Adhesion"

Fear his sticky awesomeness!!!!
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/gronkminion.htm

Related to the Silver Age Superman, do I need to specify which version of the Legion of Superheroes a certain character is?

Reverse Aquaman is the only choice.

POP!

I have turned into a vote for Impossible Man!

"The following groups do not count as one character:
X-Statix - Too many great, distinct characters
Power Company
Thunderbolts"

Yeah, that makes sense. I'll edit my list, then.

I would suggest that if a team is mainly characters with their own books (JLA, Avengers), then individual entries are required. If they only (usually) appear in one title (Fantastic Four, Ultimates, Doom Patrol), then a group entry is acceptable.

Of course, this can lead to abuse. Most of the X-Men appear only in the X-books, so one could argue "X-Men" as a group entry. Opposed to that, they swap books periodically, so group entry might not count.

I don't know about that... you think the Fantastic Four should be one character? No way. All four of the main characters should be in the running on their own. Plus, the line-up has changed sometimes.

It's tough. I mean, look at the Metal Men, and I can sort of understand... I doubt many people "only read Metal Men because of Tin" or something. You probably like the whole thing- one character from it is not all that much on his own. But the Doom Patrol? I mean... yeah, they mostly only appear IN Doom Patrol... but there have been many incarnations of the team, and you really COULD be like "I only like it when Negative Man is part of the team" or somesuch.

Realistically, we should not have ANY groups count as one character, and then do a top groups list some other time.

Do pre and post crisis versions of DC characters count as seperate choices?

Sentinels count as one choice, right?

Also, are you counting V for Vendetta as being DC?

I think that the Blackhawks, the Enforcers and the Red Ghost and the Super-Apes should all count as single entries. (If they even make the list.)

I can verify that Red Ghost and the Super-apes have at least one vote. Because they are awesome, and deserve their own reason to love comics entry.

I'd say Sentinels are one choice unless you wanted to specify Nimrod, or Master Mold, or some other specificaly named Sentinel. But that's just me.

No Wildstorm? Then I can't put in Elijah Snow!

Watchmen was a DC comic, so it counts. V for Vendetta wasn't originally, so it doesn't.

Questions!

1. Would you count “The ClanDestine” as one?
2. Would you count the “GLA/GLX/GLI” as one?
3. Do “Watchmen” and “V for Vendetta” count?
4. Can I vote for “Silver Age Superman” but not modern Superman?

1. Nah
2. No
3. Yes and no, respectively
4. I say no - I think it is implied that if you're voting for a Superman or a Spider-Man or a Batman, it is likely based on a specific time period, so you don't have to explain further than that.

Just glancing over my list as I sent them, I noticed something strange. I'm much more of a Marvel fan than a DC fan, although I read tons from both of them. But my DC list featured more obscure characters than my Marvel one.

I guess if I was as big on the DC Icons as I am on the Marvel ones, I would be a DC fan. I mean, I probably know FAR more obscure Marvel characters than DC ones, but I like reading about the Marvel big guns more than the DC big guns.

Anyone else notice anything like this?

"I don’t know about that… you think the Fantastic Four should be one character? No way. All four of the main characters should be in the running on their own. Plus, the line-up has changed sometimes."

Sure.. all four are main characters. Who almost never appear continuously in other books. Yes, there have been changes in the lineup now and then, but the FF remain the main 4. They just don't have enough individuality to warrant single entries.

But this is for Brian to rule on, not us.

4. I say no - I think it is implied that if you’re voting for a Superman or a Spider-Man or a Batman, it is likely based on a specific time period, so you don’t have to explain further than that.

I see what you mean. It's just that that character seems so different, to me. Plus, it's not really clear if most of those stories ever happened. I'm guessing not. No big, I just left him off.

"Sure.. all four are main characters. Who almost never appear continuously in other books. Yes, there have been changes in the lineup now and then, but the FF remain the main 4. They just don’t have enough individuality to warrant single entries."

Considering he says the ClanDestine have to go it solo, I'm guessing he'd put the FF firmly in the solo votes category. It's much more likely someone could be a fan of "The Thing" than of "Wallop".

Okay, wait, we seriously have to distinguish Legion characters by boot number?

That's ridiculous. Brainiac Five is Brainiac Five is Brainiac-goddamned-Five.

I found the top three on each list really easy to write down. The next three came to mind easily, but I had to debate the order. The last four were really tough. I started thinking about which minor characters could always make me buy a book that I wouldn't otherwise dream of buying.

Sorry, Hercules. You were eleventh.

[...] Comics Should Be Good! is doing a meta-poll about “your favorite characters“, which should be amusing, especially if people manage to actually do their favorites and not just pick Batman and Superman because they’re Important Comic Characters. However, this is very telling: Regarding Legion of Superheroes characters, please specify which version you mean (pre-Zero Hour, Post-Zero Hour, Current series), but seriously, is anyone going to pick one other than the pre-Zero Hour ones? [...]

"but seriously, is anyone going to pick one other than the pre-Zero Hour ones?"

Well, if I was going to participate in the poll, I would pick Kinetix.

'This better not end up being like that sucky DC list where Batman and Superman were one and two. The Marvel list was decent: Dr. Doom at number one, Emma Frost and Beta Ray Bill in the top ten, et cetera. The DC list was just completely lacking in personality beyond an appearance by Space Cabby in the top twenty, and Space Cabby only made it in because of a stupid website campaign.'

Why not? Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that these are among the 2 favorite DC characters, based on sales and number of titles alone?

Why the heck doesn't GLI/X/A count as one???

chdb--I would actually vehemently disagree, and Brainy is the character I'd use as prime illustration. Pre-ZH and post-ZH Querl are easily as different as any major Ultimate character is from his "original" counterpart. (And for the record, I at least will be voting for a post-ZH Legionnaire.)

Well, if I was going to participate in the poll, I would pick Kinetix.

Blast you for pointing out that I left off a few words I meant to include!!

I MEANT to write "“but seriously, is anyone going to pick a version of a character other than the pre-Zero Hour ones?”

I could definitely see someone going for a NEW character post-Zero Hour, like a Gates or a Monstress or a Kinetix.

I just can't see someone saying, "Yeah, Lightning Lad sucked, but Live Wire was awesome!!"

So sorry if that offended you, people out there who like new characters introduced post-Zero Hour!!

Why the heck doesn’t GLI/X/A count as one???

Because they're recognizable characters on their own.

Brian Cronin wrote:

"I just can’t see someone saying, “Yeah, Lightning Lad sucked, but Live Wire was awesome!!”"

Neither can I. But that doesn't change the fact that there are characters who I like better in one version than another. I like pre-ZH Brainy, but post-ZH Brainy goes on my top ten list and the original doesn't.

Neither can I. But that doesn’t change the fact that there are characters who I like better in one version than another. I like pre-ZH Brainy, but post-ZH Brainy goes on my top ten list and the original doesn’t.

That IS why I made up the rule.

Can anyone point to the results of last years top 100 writer and artists

"Why the heck doesn’t GLI/X/A count as one???"

"Because they’re recognizable characters on their own."

I completely disagree with this. If you're going to go that route with the GLI/X/A, then why not go there with all teams? The Mteal Men are all individual characters with disctinct personalities, as are the GL*. Lumped into this would also be the Howling Commandos, Challengers of The Unknown, Boy Commandos, the Knights of Wundagore, the Starjammers, and a few dozen others we name.

The fact that they basically only exist as a team pushes strongly for the group listing. Distinct personalities does not eliminate the reality of their (nearly) exclusive team existence.

And the FF is the longest running example of this. (Sorry! I just had to get that in there. I'm NOT starting a flame or anything silly like that.)

I'm including which version it is for the Legionnaires I'm voting for, but I'm doing so under protest. Brainiac 5, for example: I like all versions, but each different version of the character makes me like the *overall* character more; I wouldn't like Brainy as well if I didn't see all these different takes on him. I hope this subsection of the rules can be repealed.

I was mostly just trying to prevent characters like Gates from being ignored, Matthew, and I think you'll agree, that would be a shame.

I'll tell you what - if doing the different versions of the Legion characters makes a difference, I'll combine the votes (as in, if a character will make the Top 50 with combined votes).

That makes sense.

Except the part about Gates being ignored. How could anyone ignore Gates? What could be more memorable than a teleporting Communist caterpillar with claws?

Does the Haunted Tank count as a character?

I've got a strange and kind of perverse interest in Marv from Sin City. Sure, there's the "Conan in a trenchcoat" aspect that's supposed to appeal to all males...but he's also super-hero morality that's been put in a boiling pot, long enough to melt of the fat grease of apoligia and embarrasment that people seem to atatch to that sentiment anymore. There was a point where you'd write charactersdoing good things simply because they were good. But as time moved on and every media outlet began to come around to the decision that they'd make more money embracing the idea that people aren't inherently good, comics folowed suit, and fast. They decided that all their super-heroes had some deep-driven and sick reason to punch murderers in the face, and every comic that's NOT about super-heroes is either a slice-of-life series of identical panels that only get good reviews if the writer is a certified depressive, or dramas that take every opportunity to snipe at the super-hero comics!
But Marv, he's different. He's just a straight portrait of a man who goes out to do something right, often with little consideration of his own well being. He barely knows why he does it, and has trouble doing it the right way, but he just DOES. He has to, because it's what needs to happen. You stop older people from hurting children, you bring an innocent person's killer to justice. Sure, he's violent, but that's part of his distilation of goodness. He's raw, extracted good intention.

...

I think I did it wrong.

Can we do Independants too? Image/Dark Horse/Top Cow and all those guys rolled into their own third category? My Marvel and DC lists are done, but I think we need to give everyone else some love too.

Making this list CHARACTERS rather than heroes made my choices near-impossible! Trying to figure out where my favourite villains rank left me feeling quite conflicted! Do I really like mean old Lex Luthor more than happy-go-lucky Billy Batson? Apparently!

[...] August 27th, 2007 [...]

[...] When Brian Cronin over at Comics Should Be Good came up with the idea to compile a Top 100 Marvel and DC Characters list, it was as though he was writing directly to my soul. Yeah, yeah…I know that I already did this a few months ago, but my opinion is like the drops of water that comprise the ocean — constantly shifting in a delicate dance of turbulence. [...]

Wow, just sent mine in... that was tough.

The interesting thing I found was that in my top 10 were heroes, villians and support characters.... shows it doesnt just take a super hero to make a good comic, or a good comic universe.

Uh.. sorry about the 2 #4's. Take off Darkseid.

Does a character have to be among the living to make the cut? (i.e., captain america)

Wait, why no Wildstorm? Especially now that it's Earth-50. I refuse to participate in any list where I don't get to fangirl Midnighter and Mayor Hundred.

Apparently some people are illiterate and can't understand "don't vote in the comments)

[...] Here’s the link to the original entry (if you didn’t get there directly from CBR’s front page). [...]

Yes, please, folks, do not vote in the comments.

Uh... yep. I'z cain't reed to good.

No problem, Shawn - I just copied your votes and e-mailed them to my account (as I did to the other six folks who did so).

Just please avoid that in the future, other people!

Thanks. I appreciate it. Let that be a lesson to everyone. Skimming articles can become a bad habit.

By the way I disagree with anyone suggesting the Fantastic Four should be one entity on the list.

For example, I will likely vote for The Thing, but I think Mr. Fantastic is about one of the worst characters ever. He's also not in the current lineup.

If any of the Metal Men had their own series, then they would likely be separate. However, they always appear as a unit.

The Fantastic Four on the other hand, well look at Thing, who has had not one but two ongoing series. So has Luke Cage (who was on the team at one point) and She Hulk has had three ongoing series (and she was in the FF for quite a while.) and Storm has had at least one min-series that I can think of, and Black Panther has his own series....and so on.

Add to the fact that they can appear in other books on their own with very little actual connection to the FF (such as Human Torch showing up in Spider-Man)

I can agree with the Ben Grimm statement. After all, if you count MTIO and his '83 series he has 136 issues under his belt as a lead character in an ongoing series.

spider jerusalem should be on this list. the man may be fictional, but he is an inspiration to me as an aspiring journalist. he leaves a swath of destruction and irritable bowel syndrome behind him in his utterly relentless, violent search for the all important truth. watching him dismantle the smiler towards the end of the series is one of the most brilliant things i've seen in comics.

You can certainly vote for Spider Jerusalem, if you wish.

He's a DC character.

People are voting in the comments because watching the list take shape is the fun of making such lists. Getting to see the odd ball choices and watching the obvious ones rise and fall is the point. What's to argue if the voting isn't in the open. Take it all behind the curtain, and you might as well just draw up your own list and claim it was the result of a vote.

Man... i wonder where "BUENO EXCELENTE" will rank.... (favorite Hitman charachter....he singlehandedly defeated Lobo... No lie)

What about Moonshadow? Is he DC/Vertigo or Marvel/Epic (I'm assuming Epic counts, like Vertigo does for DC)? And the Charlton characters count for DC, right?

Oh and I assume The Young Avengers count as one?

DEADPOOL!!!!!

People are voting in the comments because watching the list take shape is the fun of making such lists. Getting to see the odd ball choices and watching the obvious ones rise and fall is the point. What’s to argue if the voting isn’t in the open. Take it all behind the curtain, and you might as well just draw up your own list and claim it was the result of a vote.

Well,

A. Just discussing the rules has people arguing enough as it is - you'd be surprised at how sensitive people are when they think post-Zero Hour Legion is being insulted.

B. There will be plenty of arguments as you describe when the lists begin to show up on the blog, as people will be all, "What?!?! Character W is ahead of Character X?!!? No way! When will Character Y show up? Character Y better be ahead of Character Z!"

C. If the lists are made public, people can basically figure out who is ranked where. If the lists are private, they don't know. For instance, I did an X-Men version of this thing last year, and NO one guessed that the winner would be Nightcrawler. But if people had seen the lists, it would have been evident.

No female characters on my list, either. Like Mecha-Shiva wrote above, I'm not sure if that makes me a misogynist or that it's an indication of how badly most female characters are written and/or conceived in mainstream super-hero comics.

I'd lean toward the latter, as I'd really like to read some mainstream super-hero stories where the female players are such strong characters that the very fact that they are female is the least interesting part of them.

So you want two lists? One for DC and one for Marvel or the vote doesn't count? "cause does that mean if you don't read Marvel you can't just vot for your fav 10 DC characters? *okay maybe I read it wrong, but its late here*

Can I make a Marvel list only? i only have 5 or less favorites from DC.

GAMBIT !!!

So you want two lists?

Yep.

Can I make a Marvel list only? i only have 5 or less favorites from DC.

That's the neat thing about "Top Ten Favorite" characters, it just ranks them as far as you like them, so just pick the next five characters you like, even if you don't like them THAT much, they are, in fact, still your 6th-10th favorite characters, right? Even if you only sorta like them.

Do Fables characters count?

I don't quite understand why Vertigo characters that were not previously owned by DC (Such as We3 or Jesse Custer) are eligible while Epic Comics characters are not. Both are essentially the same type of line-- creator oriented properties. Take the case of Moonshadow, originally published by Epic and then reprinted by Vertigo. Under these rules, Moonshadow is eligible on the DC list, but not the Marvel list.

I think that characters from all sub-imprints should be eligible, or none at all. Why should I be able to vote for Enigma but not Dreadstar?

Would Conan count? He was published by Marvel for years and years...but Dark Horse holds the rights currently.

Frankly, I wish there was a third list for "other" characters outside of DC and Marvel.

Well if people have to make to lists to have their vote counted and are forced to randomly choose characters they don't know or really like just to make up these list then its really a pretty worthless list IMO.

Different if folks who only read DC or Marvel and not the other company could simply vote their fav ten characters of the company they read, but when they're forced to vote ten of the companies characters they don't read then they are just going to pick the ten they've heard the most about.

Then those would be their ten favorite characters. If someone really cannot make a list, though, they do not have to participate. It's not a big deal!

I don’t quite understand why Vertigo characters that were not previously owned by DC (Such as We3 or Jesse Custer) are eligible while Epic Comics characters are not. Both are essentially the same type of line– creator oriented properties. Take the case of Moonshadow, originally published by Epic and then reprinted by Vertigo. Under these rules, Moonshadow is eligible on the DC list, but not the Marvel list.

I think that characters from all sub-imprints should be eligible, or none at all. Why should I be able to vote for Enigma but not Dreadstar?

The characters like We3 and Jesse Custer are completely and totally DC characters. Heck, Death appeared on DC letterhead!!!

Characters like Dreadstar have been at all other sorts of companies, same with Moonshadow, Elfquest and Groo.

They are not Marvel characters the way that characters like the Fables characters or Yorick Brown ARE DC characters, as Bigby Wolf and Yorick Brown are never going to be appearing anywhere BUT in DC Comics.

"Then those would be their ten favorite characters. If someone really cannot make a list, though, they do not have to participate. It’s not a big deal!"

No, they wouldn't necessarily be their ten 'favorite' characters, they'd just be characters that they had heard of. I'm still confused about the two list thing, your reply to me was that it needs to be two lists, but another pster asked if they could just make a Marvel list and they only had five favs and your reply was that they should just pick any five other characters to make up the rest of the ten, but you never mentioned to that poster that they needed to make two lists, one for DC and one for Marvel.

I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to clarify that I'm understanding the rules right and that it does need to be two lists, and that one list of DC characters won't be counted if I'm not familiar with Marvel characters and don't make them a listas well, I'm a little dense when it comes to some things, especially at 6.05 am like it is here, so sorry if I'm being annoying.

Cal that person said they had a full marvel list and 5 favorites from DT. Brian suggested he pad the DC list.

"Cal that person said they had a full marvel list and 5 favorites from DT. Brian suggested he pad the DC list."

Okay dude, no probs, I didn't read it properly. Thanks for that.

What about the Suicide Squad? Certainly, the characters are separate and stand alone, but I am in LOVE with the concept of the Suicide Squad. Help me channel this love.

I think the Squad is just too distinct. I know Deadshot already has quite a few votes.

Okay, don't hate me, but one last question- So a list of DC and a list of Marvel, I've finally got that through my thickhead...and a list of 10 favs from both those lists as well? Or is it rank my faves on both lists from one to ten?

Yeah, two lists

One list of 10 Favorite DC characters

then

One List of 10 Favorite Marvel characters

Okay, got it now. Thanks.

How about Marvel's Dracula? Is public domain the same as licensed?

No, I'd say public domain is okay, or else Thor and Hercules wouldn't count, right?

Sooo...where do I send my list into???

I am not a huge fan of marvel so I couldn't do a list of marvel though my insane dc list will hopefully make up for that...

(Sue and ralph count as one right?)

This was not easy to do. My DC list was also insanely long. I had about 30 characters I'm crazy about and will get almost anything with them in it. My Marvels were much harder to pinpoint. I love certain creators on characters at different times, but it's hard to say that I have a character that I pretty much love no matter what version. I guess I'm surprised that I didn't have more Marvel characters pop into my head as quickly, though there was a female Marvel character that made the list. DC had one that almost made the list but not enough room. DC had 2 teams, Marvel had 1.

I did list some major characters but also some more obscure ones that I really love and don't think get enough face time.

Whoops !

I copied my list for reference as I posted and accidently posted it along with my comments.

Sorry

The characters like We3 and Jesse Custer are completely and totally DC characters. Heck, Death appeared on DC letterhead!!!

Actually no. Death is totally a DC character. She is a character in the DC Universe. Jesse Custer and presumably WE3 are creator owned characters and if Vertigo let them go out of print they could be taken to any other company just like has been done with Outlaw Nation and was nearly done with Skreemer.

In fact Preacher used to be serialised in Judge Dredd: The Megazine. They may have originated in Vertigo but really they're not much different to any characters who originated in Epic.

And like many others it seems I would probably vote for Ben Grimm, but not the Fantastic Four. Add me to the list of people who thing teams should not count as one character.

OK this is probably a dumb question and you may have actually answered it somewhere in all these comments that I skimmed through, but...
Are we limited to one vote each? Per email address or whatever? Or are people flooding in multiple entries?

"Must... ensure... Scarlet Witch... makes... list...!"

One vote per person!

That was fun, I brainstormed a list right away, put it aside, and came back to it yesterday to rethink.
The Marvel list seemed much easier than the DC.
And I'm surprised by these people who found they had no women on their lists - - I ended up with three wives listed on mine.

What category do Amalgam characters such as Dark Claw go under? Are they DC or Marvel or must they be included in both lists if at all?

[...] Now, though not a lot of you said you were into comics, this week’s Inq is about comics and superheroes. Over at Comics Should Be Good!, they’re asking everyone what their top 10 comic characters are in both DC and Marvel lists. If you’re a comic’s fan, check out the questionnaire for the rules, and submit your lists! And if you do, let us know what you picked, just because I’m really curious. [...]

[...] Click here to see how to vote! Less than a week left to cast your ballots! [...]

[...] A Top 40, and only a little Countdown Thursday September 6, 2007, 12:00 pm Grumpy Old Fan(Out of pocket this week, so if the Direct Market burns to the ground, I won’t be able to talk about it until Sunday.)I don’t envy Brian Cronin’s task of compiling a list of 100 favorite DC and Marvel characters. When I coordinated a list of 52 DC characters last year, it was a lot of work. Still, it was fun to see who people liked. Writing up the final list also let me figure out my feelings for the characters. [...]

The Original Pre-Crisis Legion of Super-Heroes with ties to Superboy/Superman was one of DC's best selling titles for almost 30 years.

If I can't vote for the Legion as a team then I Vote For the (Kal-El Superboy) the one who inspired them to greatness,without him in their history the Legion has failed over and over again.

[...] Click here for the details on how to vote. [...]

u fucken nerds fuck off 2 the pics y dont u