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CSBG Archive

Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed #117

This is the one-hundred and seventeenth in a series of examinations of comic book urban legends and whether they are true or false. Click here for an archive of the previous one-hundred and sixteen. Click here for a similar archive, only arranged by subject.

Let’s begin!

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: Kitty Pryde was in the original treatment for Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars, but was removed before the comic was released.

STATUS: False

Reader Pete wrote in to ask why Kitty Pryde was cut from Secret Wars, as she originally appeared among the group (in the famous Mike Zeck group drawing) in an early advertisement for the series…

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However, after checking with Marvel, as one might expect, Zeck was simply asked to draw the Avengers, X-Men, etc., and he simply assumed Kitty Pryde would be in the book.

As it were, she was never intended to be in the series, so the image was just cropped out, and we got the classic cover we all know and love…

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Thanks to Jim McCann and Tom Brevoort for the information and thanks to Pete for asking the question!

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: Marvel and DC only trademarked “superhero” because Mego trademarked it first.

STATUS: True

As detailed in a very early installment of Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed, DC and Marvel own a joint trademark on the term “superhero.”

But as reader “Comic Reader Man” asked me awhile back, the reasons WHY DC and Marvel ended up trademarking it is quite interesting.

In the early 1970s, Mego began a line of action figures, licensing the use of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.

The title of the line was “World’s Greatest Super-Heroes”.

1973wgsh.jpg

Mego decided to apply for a trademark (and were granted one) on the term “super-hero.”

DC and Marvel took issue with this, and threatened legal action, which Mego avoided by giving up its rights to the term (some stories say they sold any rights they had for the nominal fee of one dollar, but I do not know about that for sure).

DC and Marvel then filed for a trademark on the term themselves, which they have held ever since. This most likely explains why they decided to file together, rather than one trying to eliminate the other from using the term.

Thanks to Mego Museum for some information, and for just being a plain old awesome website!!

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: Marvel took a British comic book character and basically just put her into Alpha Flight wholesale.

STATUS: True

In an earlier installment of Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed, I talked about how DC changed the name of their new hero, Red Fox to Crimson Fox because of concerns of a British comic book company over their hero called the Redfox.

Part of the reason that the Redfox folks were so gunshy was due to the fact that a previous character of theirs had been taken and used (and ultimately became a pretty important character) in an issue of Alpha Flight, as the character Dream Queen.

Reader Robert Pincombe wanted to know what the character was that was taken, so here it is….

First off, there was Demon Queen, from Redfox, in 1986 and 1987.

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Then, in 1988 and 1989, in Alpha Flight, here was the Dream Queen, the demon daughter of Nightmare and Zhilla…

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Pretty funny, huh?

Here is Fox, creator (and artist) of Redfox, on the topic (from the comments to this piece):

The only one that shows the Demon Queen in her original form is the head shot in the first picture. The others are of Redfox when possessed by the Demon Queen, so the similarities in design are less evident.

And it wasn’t just the visuals, although I don’t recall the details now. I spoke to John Byrne at a convention later that year and he wasn’t surprised to hear about it. Apparently Mantlo had something of a reputation.

And it wasn’t the only time the Demon Queen was used as source material by Marvel. At one point a Demon Princess or Goblin Queen or something like that popped up in X-Men, and while the similarities were more subtle, I knew that Chris Claremont read Redfox, and I have the photos to prove it. So the next time I saw him at a con I asked him whether it was more than a coincidence and he neither admitted nor denied it. He just gave a big smile.

Thanks, Fox!

And thanks for suggesting this one, Robert!

Okay, that’s it for this week!

Feel free to drop off any urban legends you’d like to see featured!

71 Comments

Great as always – although that Red Fox/Dream Queen thing looks pretty tenuous to me.

I have a question: Was the character Witness from Bishop’s future intended to be Gambit as heavily hinted when he was first introduced? Why was he changed to the waste of space he became?

Stephane Savoie

August 24, 2007 at 5:38 am

I don’t think I understand legend #2… why would they be gunshy to sue if one of their characters was ripped off wholecloth? And who wrote those issues? This Legend seems kinda incomplete.

I couldn’t agree with Rich more: Gambit is a complete waste of space.

I will now be verbally assaulted by fanboys everywhere.

Seriously, though, I LOVE this column. I haven’t responded before, but I read it every week. I LOVE all these inside stories.

Yeah, she has horns and the word “queen” in her name…is there more to it than that?

Goddammit, warn us next time you put anything to do with Alpha Flight in these things, I almost fell asleep at the keyboard!

“I don’t think I understand legend #2… why would they be gunshy to sue if one of their characters was ripped off wholecloth? And who wrote those issues? This Legend seems kinda incomplete.”

I think that was a typo. Brian probably meant “gunshy due”. As in they didn’t want another company to have a character with a similar name after what happened with the Dream Queen character.

And these issues were written by James D. Hudnall.

“I couldn’t agree with Rich more: Gambit is a complete waste of space.”

He wasn’t always.

I actually meant that Witness was a complete waste of space….

…but now that you mention it, yeah, Gambit too.

I recall the intended plot arc for Gambit being covered back in #78. Simply put, he was intended to be a villain, but not actually the Witness.

Unfortunately, he was just too “xtreme” with his pink armor, ridiculously contrived speech patterns, and ludicrous backstory, and developed a devoted but particularly stupid fanbase. Not bad for Chris Claremont bordering on self-parody.

Hey Seamus – Yep, I recall that but it was more the Witness thing I was interested in, because he seemed to be meant to be Gambit even if Gambit wasn’t meant to be him.

…okay, just writing that made my head hurt.

As I recall, the Dream Queen and the Demon Queen both had the same powers and similiar back stories.

I could be wrong, though. I’m going purely from memory.

Theno

The first two are interesting, but I’m not sure about the third one. Do we have anything resembling confirmation from anybody that the character was actually stolen from Redfox? It looks a bit ambiguous.

What is up with the gloves on those action figures? It looks like they’re about to wash dishes.

Hallelujah! I thought I was the only one that severely hated Gambit.

As for this Dream Queen: This was probably the worst Alpha Flight storyline from a mediocre period in their history. That’s all I really have to say about that one.

I’m just curious, but i wonder if the trademarked “Superhero” term used by other publishers could result in a lawsuit issued by DC/Marvel?

So……

Marval was making a habit of stealing characters from smaller companies?

Marvel and DC have issued cease and desist letters to people trying to use the name superhero. I know that the series featured in this link http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=856
received one.

It’s also a main reason why Malibu had Ultras in the Ultraverse.

So… do we hijack this post and turn it into a “Gambit Sucks” rant?

“What is up with the gloves on those action figures? It looks like they’re about to wash dishes.”

They’re getting ready for the Super Friends’ weekly sock puppet night.

I don’t really see the similarities between the two characters… why are we so sure she was stolen?

The Dork Knight Returns

August 24, 2007 at 11:27 am

While I feel that all of the hate for Gambit is totally justified, I loved him when he debuted. I remember getting that issue of Uncanny (I want to say #266 but I’m not sure) for my twelfth birthday. I spent the next year or so believing that not only would he be a villain but that it was Longshot changed by the Seige Perilous(sp?) crystal.During Claremont’s remaing tenure on the book he was drawn with a star shape flashing from his eye just like Longshot when his luck powers were effecting something. Also (and I know this is weak evidence) Gambit originally used throwing spikes (just like Longshot) that he would charge up with his eyes.
Everyone on the team that went through the Seige Perilous and then reappeared later in Claremont’s run was changed except Wolverine (due to editors not wanting to turn Logan into an assasin for the hand). Rogue and Carol Danvers split, leaving her only with her power absorbtion powers. Storm was a teenaged thief with little control of her powers (She also spoke Egyptian but thought in English). Psylocke went all japanese ninja assasin. Dazzler showed up but I can’t remember if she was any different. Which only leaves Longshot, who didn’t reamerge until almost a year after Claremont left. Then later they started all of that nonsense, hinting that Gambit was the third Summers brother.
So what do you think? I would honestly love that to be featured in the this column….if just to satisfy my own curiousity! Oh and btw, I’ve been faithfully reading for a few years now and look forward to your Comic Bok Urban Legends feature every week. Thanks!

The Dork Knight Returns

August 24, 2007 at 11:30 am

Errr…..Comic Book rather.

I always assumed that Daredevil’s real origin went something like Stan Lee griping about how a character named “Batman” should be blind like a bat and have radar powers like a bat. And thus DD was born.

This makes so much sense, I an almost hear it is Stan’s voice. But, is it close to true?

Josh Dahl

Comics Interview # 14 has the same group picture splash page as in Secret Wars # 1, pages 2-3. Except there’s Kitty (and Lockheed) in the place of the Wasp.

The Wasp can be found wasp-sized in front of Hawkeye.

The same interview has been reprinted (with the same picture) in CI Super Special: Cosmic Crossovers.

Dork Knight, I had the same theory at the time. The left eye flashing thing I noticed too, as well as the throwing spikes and some other clues. Also notable was the name: a Gambit? a Longshot? They’re synonyms. Way too much clues for that to have not been the original intention. I believe Gambit HAD to have been originally meant to be Longshot.

Josh Dahl: Even if it were true, you would never get anyone to admit it.

I think the DD story goes along the lines that Stan noticed there were no heros with disabilites, thus DD was born.

Concerning the six headshots in the “World’s Greatest Superheroes!” ad, who is the guy at the upper right? I assume that he’s a Marvel character, because only one of the other five (Captain America, of course) is from that company. But just exactly who is he? Note that in the photographed store–display thing also in that ad, only Superman, Batman, Robin and Aquaman are present, either in boxed figures or in the display case’s illios, no Marvel characters. That doesn’t make any sense to me. Furthermore, instead of one six–deep row of each, there are additional Supes figures behind four Robins, and more of Bats behind a mere pair of Gillheads. Probably the sensible way to go in an actual retail outlet, but in their own ad?!?

Y’know I JUST realized that Marvel did a One Month Later kind of thing with Secret Wars similar to what DC did with the One Year Later.
Just saying is all.

CJG

The 6th figure is Tarzan, who was licensed to DC at the time. Don’t ask why he, Robin and Aquaman are wearing white T-shirts on the display.

I have a couple of Infinite Crisis related legends/questions to ask about.

Was Superboy was killed off because of the lawsuit regarding the rights to character?

Was Dick Grayson was supposed to die and be replaced as Nightwing by Jason Todd?

I believe it is Mike Carey’s intention to return Gambit to his scoundrel ways.

If both DC and Marvel received joint trademark onwership on “Super-Hero”, did they co-own “Super Villain” too?

I rarely had any use for Gambit and have not needed him for many years now …
warmed up to him because of Rogue, but now, not so much

So, the Alpha Flight thing means Bill Mantlo Swipes Again, eh?

Another reason to dislike his Alpha run, I guess.

Best,
Hunter (Pedro Bouça)

Oh yeah, sorry, folks, it was a typo – I meant “due,” instead of “sue.”

And sorry for not getting into it further with the descriptions – I was simply just trying to tell Pincombe WHO the character was in question, as the previous installment had described that they felt ripped off.

In any event, yes, Dream Queen and Demon Queen were very similar beyond appearance and name (that being said, having a character be basically the same appearance and name of another character is pretty bad, in and of itself).

And I didn’t mention the Alpha Flight writer, because I didn’t feel like sticking it to a fellow twenty years later, but because someone else mentioned Hudnall, I figure I should keep from Hudnall getting undue blame – Hudnall only took over the book after Dream Queen made her first appearance. Mantlo was the one who “introduced” her.

If you loathe Gambit (and a lotta people do, looks like!), you might find this post (and the comments) from Dave’s Long Box milk-out-your-nose-snortingly funny. One of my favorite of Dave’s posts in recent years, especially for the escalation in the comments.

Hello again, I look forward to your column every week, and I’d like to ask you again if there’s any way to find out what other proposals ( and who submitted them ) competed against John Byrne’s Superman post-crisis version.
Thanks.

I’m not sure whether The Witness was originally intended to be Gambit, although I’d place my money on it. Honestly, the whole plotline was not the most thoroughly planned story in X-Men history. Onslaught alone… *shakes head*

The Gambit/Longshot thing would make for an interesting urban legend, though. With all the similarities between the two characters, one has to wonder if Claremont intended for the shared traits to be red herring, whether they really were the same at one point, or if the whole thing was just unconscious recycling.

Flush it all away

August 24, 2007 at 5:07 pm

Thanks for another edition!

I guess I’m not really clear why DC and Marvel had such issues about the use of the term “super-hero,” but didn’t have a problem with Mego using their characters. Assuming their use was licensed, why would it matter what they called them?

It’s just weird, like if the WWF licensed a Hulk Hogan action figure, then threatened to sue because the toy company called him an “Action Fighting Star.”

raymond larsson

August 24, 2007 at 6:01 pm

Flush it all away:

‘Mego decided to apply for a trademark (and were granted one) on the term “super-hero.”’
which means Mego had control of the term, and could prevent Marvel and DC using it if the companies’ relations went pear-shaped.

Maybe I’m crazy, but hipboots, horns and the “Queen” name aside, I don’t see how Alpha Flight’s character was a direct swipe. In fact as I scrolled down the covers, I kept waiting for some damning evidence and didn’t see it.

Let’s face it: In the mid-to-late ’80’s there was a tidal wave of so-so characters in a seeming attempt to copyright anything and everything, which is why we also had so many Cable clones and crappy characters in the early ’90’s.

The hipboots are different colors and shapes.
Dream Queen’s horns look metallic, rather than the other characters’s organic look.

I actually remembered Redfox’s book on the shelves during the black n’ white glut, but didn’t remember Alpha Flight’s Dream Queen, and I was a major fanboy who checked everything on the shelves. At that point, I sorta remember that Alpha Flight era, but the association with RedFox never occured to me. I’d chalk it up to either coincidence or someone seeing one or two costume elements and ‘improving’ on it. Again, see all the Wolverine clones in the early ’90’s.

Sorry that I got to rambling there…

http://www.drewgeraci.com

I’ve never written before, but I also love the column and read it weekly.

Question: Was that last Red Fox cover by Vaughn Bode?

About Crimson Fox: One would think that the name of the late comedian, Red Foxx, would be more likely to be the cause of DC’s decision to rename their character, than some obscure British comic’s.

“While I feel that all of the hate for Gambit is totally justified, I loved him when he debuted. I remember getting that issue of Uncanny (I want to say #266 but I’m not sure) for my twelfth birthday. I spent the next year or so believing that not only would he be a villain but that it was Longshot changed by the Seige Perilous(sp?) crystal.During Claremont’s remaing tenure on the book he was drawn with a star shape flashing from his eye just like Longshot when his luck powers were effecting something. Also (and I know this is weak evidence) Gambit originally used throwing spikes (just like Longshot) that he would charge up with his eyes.
Everyone on the team that went through the Seige Perilous and then reappeared later in Claremont’s run was changed except Wolverine (due to editors not wanting to turn Logan into an assasin for the hand). Rogue and Carol Danvers split, leaving her only with her power absorbtion powers. Storm was a teenaged thief with little control of her powers (She also spoke Egyptian but thought in English). Psylocke went all japanese ninja assasin. Dazzler showed up but I can’t remember if she was any different. Which only leaves Longshot, who didn’t reamerge until almost a year after Claremont left. Then later they started all of that nonsense, hinting that Gambit was the third Summers brother.
So what do you think? I would honestly love that to be featured in the this column….if just to satisfy my own curiousity! Oh and btw, I’ve been faithfully reading for a few years now and look forward to your Comic Bok Urban Legends feature every week. Thanks!”

I think one time wolverine even mentioned that boxing with gambit was similar to boxing with longshot.

Question: Was that last Red Fox cover by Vaughn Bode?

Huh. Kinda looks like it, but since Bode died in, what?, ’76? ’77? it’s REALLY unlikely.

“I spent the next year or so believing that not only would he be a villain but that it was Longshot changed by the Seige Perilous(sp?) crystal.During Claremont’s remaing tenure on the book he was drawn with a star shape flashing from his eye just like Longshot when his luck powers were effecting something. Also (and I know this is weak evidence) Gambit originally used throwing spikes (just like Longshot) that he would charge up with his eyes.
Everyone on the team that went through the Seige Perilous and then reappeared later in Claremont’s run was changed except Wolverine (due to editors not wanting to turn Logan into an assasin for the hand). Rogue and Carol Danvers split, leaving her only with her power absorbtion powers. Storm was a teenaged thief with little control of her powers (She also spoke Egyptian but thought in English). Psylocke went all japanese ninja assasin. Dazzler showed up but I can’t remember if she was any different. Which only leaves Longshot, who didn’t reamerge until almost a year after Claremont left. Then later they started all of that nonsense, hinting that Gambit was the third Summers brother.
So what do you think?”

Longshot didn’t go through the Siege Perilous. Neither did Storm. They both left the X-Men in Uncanny #248. Storm was captured by Nanny and then reduced in age, but the X-Men thought that Havok killed her. As for Longshot, it’s sort of sketchy. Apparently Gateway convinces him to leave the team during a dream sequence. He just kind of goes off to find himself.

The Siege Perilous doesn’t change anyone really. There were five X-Men that went through the SP: Rogue, Psylocke, Collosus, Dazzler, and Havok. Rogue and Carol Danvers split upon exiting, but were then reunited. Dazzler reemerged in LA and became a star again. Collosus ended up in the Soho district of NYC and became a famous artist, unaware of his past life as an X-Man. Havok ended up in Genosha as one of the Magistrates, again with amnesia. As for Psylocke, she did change into an Asian, but that was actually the Hand using Spiral’s Body Shoppe to turn her into an assasin. (This was later retconned to be a mind swap with Ravanche.)

As for Claremont’s original intent for Gambit, whether he was supposed to be a returning Longshot, it seems unlikely. From his first appearance (UXM#266) it was established he was a thief in New Orleans for some time. As for Gambit’s appearance, Mike Collins was the artist on that issue (with Andy Kubert doing the cover), but Mark Silvestri probably had a hand in the original character design (or perhaps Jim Lee?). And that star on his eye actually took a while to show up. And besides, wouldn’t Gambit have four fingers if he were Longshot?

Boy, I wonder what Redd Foxx would think if Red Fox?

What do people have against Gambit? I guess he’s a villian now or something. I only skimmed X-men #200. I’m going back to read it whole.

What do people have against Gambit?

His annoying “accent”, stupid costume, retarded hair, gimmicky power, cliched personality, and how long we had to deal with being told he was so goddamn important and awesome.

For starters.

I’m flattered by the comparison to Vaughn Bode, but that cover was all mine. The previous covers were by John Bolton and Bryan Talbot. The only one that shows the Demon Queen in her original form is the head shot in the first picture. The others are of Redfox when possessed by the Demon Queen, so the similarities in design are less evident.

And it wasn’t just the visuals, although I don’t recall the details now. I spoke to John Byrne at a convention later that year and he wasn’t surprised to hear about it. Apparently Mantlo had something of a reputation.

And it wasn’t the only time the Demon Queen was used as source material by Marvel. At one point a Demon Princess or Goblin Queen or something like that popped up in X-Men, and while the similarities were more subtle, I knew that Chris Claremont read Redfox, and I have the photos to prove it. So the next time I saw him at a con I asked him whether it was more than a coincidence and he neither admitted nor denied it. He just gave a big smile.

The Dork Knight Returns

August 25, 2007 at 11:45 pm

T.
The Gambit/Longshot synonym thing never occurred to me even though once you mentioned it, it’s so frickin’ obvious. This only strengthens my belief that Longshot and Gambit were intended to be the same person. Only Chris Claremont can really settle this though.

The Dork Knight Returns

August 25, 2007 at 11:53 pm

@ Cole Burns
I completely forgot about Colossus becoming a powerless artist in Sho. Thanks! I still feel ver strongly about the Gambit/Longshot situation though. I could most definitely be wrong here,but I just remember him being involved in the Mastrmold/Nimrod batrtel in New York when the team went through the crystal at the end of the issue. Please understand though, this is all from memory, my collection is long gone and I’ve no way of verifying my beliefs beyond this column! I just love comics and enjoy talking about them and am open to differing view points and theories regarding these old stories. I’m in no way saying that I’m absolutely right in my beliefs. I’m just saying that this is how it seemed to me when I was reading the books.
these days the only books I still read are Astonishing X-Men and Savage Dragon.

The Dork Knight Returns

August 25, 2007 at 11:55 pm

Had afew drinks too and am not typing up to the standard of an English major!

Fox wrote:
“I spoke to John Byrne at a convention later that year and he wasn’t surprised to hear about it. Apparently Mantlo had something of a reputation.”

While Byrne may well have said that, it’s a little unfair, since Mantlo was off the book by the time this happened. The issues shown were by James Hundall unless my memory is completely messing with my head.

While Byrne may well have said that, it’s a little unfair, since Mantlo was off the book by the time this happened. The issues shown were by James Hundall unless my memory is completely messing with my head.

As I mentioned before, while Hudnall wrote the majority of the stories with Dream Queen in them, she was introduced into the comic by Mantlo.

Hudnall took over the book soon after.

I can’t speak, though, as to whether Mantlo did this thing often – this is the only time I’ve heard of him doing this sort of thing, but obviously, I could just be unfamiliar with other instances.

There’s enough dirt on Gambit for a new Urban Legends Revealed. Just read the comments on this post http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/11/26/did-marvel-steal-gambit/ Personally I think Gambit was “inspired” by Alan Oldham’s Johnny Gambit.

on 24 Aug 2007 at 2:32 pm 31.Chris L said …

If both DC and Marvel received joint trademark onwership on “Super-Hero”, did they co-own “Super Villain” too?

I’m not absolutely certain, but as both companies have released books with “Super-Villain” in the title, it’s pretty safe to say they do. Marvel currently has the book “Super-Villain Team-Up Modok’s 11″, and DC will be issuing a Showcase TP of “Secret Society of Super-Villains” featuring stories from the 1970s title of the same name. The current Marvel book even harkens back to that company’s own short-lived 1970s title, which seemed to primarily be a Dr Doom team-up book. (More accurately, the book was a Dr Doom/Sub-Mariner title for 11 of the 17 issues, Doom/Red Skull for 3 issues, Doom/Magneto for 1 issue, and the Red Skull/Hate-Monger for 2 issues. There were also 2 Giant-Size issues, both featuring Doom & Sub-Mariner.)

Question for a future edition:

Over on the the ‘Rama Talk@ Marvel boards there’s a thread ( http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=126838 ) running about a Steve Ditko cover to Amazing Fantasy #15 that was ditched for the one we all know (the poster found the image over on Sam Ruby’s site, I think). Can we get the dirt on what happened to this Ditko cover that was never used? (that is, unless it has already been in a past Urban Legends that I just don’t know about…)

Mantlo was accused of plagiarism at least twice: He did a Hulk story (286) that was similar enough to a Harlan Ellison story that a subsequent letters page noted that Marvel inadvertently left off credit for Ellison or something like that. In recent years, Barry Windsor-Smith has claimed that Mantlo ripped off the abused Bruce Banner/multiple personality idea from some unfinished Hulk story that Windsor-Smith did.

I doubt the last one is really a case of swiping BWS idea. It strikes me more as an idea whose time had come. I also note that I, at least did not read the rumor until after Bill Mantlo could not defend himself. One wonders why BWS didn’t bring it up earlier.

Question for a future edition:

Over on the the ‘Rama Talk@ Marvel boards there’s a thread ( http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=126838 ) running about a Steve Ditko cover to Amazing Fantasy #15 that was ditched for the one we all know (the poster found the image over on Sam Ruby’s site, I think). Can we get the dirt on what happened to this Ditko cover that was never used? (that is, unless it has already been in a past Urban Legends that I just don’t know about…)

Amusingly enough, that thread links to the urban legend installment on the topic! :)

About Crimson Fox: One would think that the name of the late comedian, Red Foxx, would be more likely to be the cause of DC’s decision to rename their character, than some obscure British comic’s.

Perhaps, but that’s not the case.

[…] * The sequel to Batman: The Cult became a Punisher mini-series. […]

[…] #100 – The Scorpion was originally going to be the child of Viper and Silver Samurai Marvel Adventures: Fantastic Four #12 was an intentional knock-off of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang Chris Elopoulos draws the Mini-Marvels series. Jay Faerber’s run on Titans featured some prominent supporting characters that were not in Jay’s intended plan for the series. Walter Simonson compiled a list of all the appearances of Doctor Doom in comics and determined which ones were actually Doom and which ones were Doom-bots. #101 – Jim Shooter got the idea for Spider-Man’s black costume from a piece of fan fiction. The dentist of the Superman movie’s producer’s wife auditioned for the role of Superman. The clone of the Guardian was originally going to be a member of the New Warriors. #102 – Marvel came out with a Broadway musical starring Captain America. One of the members of Youngblood was originally announced as a cast member of the New Mutants. Justice League Unlimited had to create the Justice Guild at the last minute for their Legends episode, because DC would not let them use the Justice Society. #103 – Orson Welles was planning on doing a Batman film in the 1940s. DC had a completed Xena/Wonder Woman crossover comic book but decided not to publish it.. Marvel and DC taking turns making crossover comics resulted in George Perez missing out on X-Men/Teen Titans #104 – DC Comics almost bought Diamond Comics Distrubutors. A character who was appropriate enough for a DC cartoon was found not appropriate for a DC toy. There was purple Kryptonite. #105 – Jack Kirby was okay with DC redrawing his Superman faces. DC redrew Superman’s face on a comic drawn by the same person who designed Superman on the popular Super Friends TV series. Marvel had Dave Cockrum redraw the X-Men in an X-Men guest appearance in a John Byrne-drawn issue of Iron Fist. #106 – Jesus Christ was a supporting character in Ghost Rider. The second volume of Ghost Rider was not supposed to be an ongoing series. Howard Mackie took an issue to trash anything that had happened in Ghost Rider since he left the book. #107 – The Fantastic Four were going to wear masks originally. Steve Englehart came up with an interesting plot to protest his exit from the Fantastic Four. Steve Englehart’s Silver Surfer book was designed as the Surfer exploring outer space. #108 – J.M. DeMatteis finished the story from a canceled Marvel comic series in a DC comic series. Steve Epting broke into comics by entering a non-existent contest! Chuck Dixon was the original writer on Heroes Reborn Captain America #109 – Marvel had an agreement with Frank Miller that they would not bring Elektra back unless Miller wanted to do so Harvey created Little Aubrey to avoid having to license Little Lulu. The sequel to Batman: The Cult became a Punisher mini-series. #110 – A comic character was made an actual citizen in Japan! The Astro Boy name came about because NBC was afraid DC would sue them over the name “The Mighty Atom.” In Japan, the re-runs of Astro Boy they use are sub-titled American versions. #111 – Marvel Comics once had a line of female superhero comic books. Thor appeared in a Marvel Comic BEFORE the Silver Age! A doppleganger of Superman created in a special Superman comic was originally intended to be the way for Superman to return from the dead after his death against Doomsday. #112 – Marv Wolfman got his job working on the Superman animated series not because of his comic work, but because of his Garbage Pail Kids work. Marvel published a toy tie-in comic book without an actually toy to tie-into! Casper the Friendly Ghost was not known as Casper until the first issue of his comic book, four years after he first debuted! #113 – Jack Kirby left DC because he thought they lied to him about the sales of his New Gods titles in order to pay him less money The Superman radio show had a drastically different origin for Superman JM DeMatteis changed a storyline in Justice League of America because he didn’t know how the story was supposed to go. #114 – Disney once had a series of Mickey Mouse comic strips depicting Mickey trying various ways of killing himself. DC had to change the name of their Helix line of comic books because of the Shadowrun role playing game. Bernie Wrightson once thought he had some sort of disease due to the paint brush he was using. #115 – Marvel had a line of female heroine comic books in the 1970s. Disney once kept a company from publishing comic strips that, at the time, were most likely in the public domain. Al Milgrom was blacklisted from Marvel Comics after he snuck an insult of Bob Harras into a comic book. #116 – Marvel got rid of the X-Ternals because of threats of litigation by the Highlander folks. Scott Lobdell introduced Onslaught without knowing who or what Onslaught was. Larry Hama’s origin for M and Penance was not what Scott Lobdell originally intended for the characters. #117 – Kitty Pryde was in the original treatment for Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars, but was removed before the comic was released. Marvel and DC only trademarked “superhero” because Mego trademarked it first. Marvel took a British comic book character and basically just put her into Alpha Flight wholesale. Ta da! […]

[…] * Kitty Pryde was in the original treatment for Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars, but was removed before the comic was released. […]

How low does your self-esteem have to be for the only way to boost it is bying calling fans of a comic character “stupid?” I’d imagine pretty fucking low.

ParanoidObsessive

November 20, 2008 at 3:22 pm

>>> Y’know I JUST realized that Marvel did a One Month Later kind of thing with Secret Wars similar to what DC did with the One Year Later.

Well, technically, it would have been “Six Months Later”, since the heroes were on Battleworld for six months, if I recall correctly.

>>> I’m not sure whether The Witness was originally intended to be Gambit, although I’d place my money on it.

Well, in his first appearance, it was revealled that the real name of The Witness was also the real name of Gambit (and, in fact, Bishop making that connection was the first time Gambit’s real name was ever actually revealled), so either they were originally intended to be one and the same, or the intent was to at least trick everyone into thinking they were one in the same.

>>> I could most definitely be wrong here,but I just remember him being involved in the Mastrmold/Nimrod batrtel in New York when the team went through the crystal at the end of the issue.

The Master Mold/Nimrod fight was in 246-247, at the end of which Rogue was sucked into the Siege along with the giant robot. The other X-Men didn’t enter the Siege until issue 250. Longshot left in-between those two events.

At the time that Weapon X series (the Wolverine secret origin) was released, Barry Smith told in an interview that he had a lot of unfinished works, like a Hulk graphic novel that had at that time 100 – up pages. But his style had changed and there was no chance for finishing the story.

Told that, I think that it is absurd saying that someone stole his ideas.

About the Harlan Ellison thing, there is a lot of EC comics stories that suffer from the same thing regarding Ray Bradbury. Man… I think inspiration comes from a lot of places (you have the Terminator movie as an example).

When one says about someone’s habit of stealing ideas, he must be very careful!!!!

That Redfox art is gorgeous! I’m going to click on Fox’s post up there right now and chack out his other work!

Aw, broken link, boo! Google image search it is!

[…] Wait, who was Witness again? Ah, thank you Wiki – but that clearly makes no sense at all! Was the Witness really intended to be Gambit as originally (very strongly) hinted at? And why did it change? Sounds like a job for Urban Legends… […]

lol looks like Aquaman was the original shortpack figure.

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