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	<title>Comments on: Comics You Should Own flashback - 1963</title>
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	<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/</link>
	<description>Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good!</description>
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		<title>By: wwk5d</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-656323</link>
		<dc:creator>wwk5d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Promethia aside, of course ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Promethia aside, of course <img src='http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: wwk5d</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-656322</link>
		<dc:creator>wwk5d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-656322</guid>
		<description>&quot;in which the mad scientist routinely raped his female creation; crippled Barbara Gordon; made Abby Arcane clean herself with steel wool - you know, cheery stuff.&quot;

When you add in Silk Silk Spectre getting kicked in the crotch, man was Moore a mysoginist (sp?) or what back in the day? 

He is a great writer...but sometimes he just needs to get over himself. His tirades about the EVIL that is Stan Lee just makes me think what a petty man he is. Not like DC was all that much better during that time also, so why no beef wit DC?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"in which the mad scientist routinely raped his female creation; crippled Barbara Gordon; made Abby Arcane clean herself with steel wool - you know, cheery stuff."</p>
<p>When you add in Silk Silk Spectre getting kicked in the crotch, man was Moore a mysoginist (sp?) or what back in the day? </p>
<p>He is a great writer...but sometimes he just needs to get over himself. His tirades about the EVIL that is Stan Lee just makes me think what a petty man he is. Not like DC was all that much better during that time also, so why no beef wit DC?</p>
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		<title>By: 1963 fan</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-176813</link>
		<dc:creator>1963 fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-176813</guid>
		<description>My kingdom for the 80 page giant DOUBLE IMAGE 1963 Annual!!!

I just want to know how the story ends!!!

Curse mini-series that end on a cliffhanger!!!

Must I continue to wait past 14 years!!!

Argh!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My kingdom for the 80 page giant DOUBLE IMAGE 1963 Annual!!!</p>
<p>I just want to know how the story ends!!!</p>
<p>Curse mini-series that end on a cliffhanger!!!</p>
<p>Must I continue to wait past 14 years!!!</p>
<p>Argh!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Reed</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-172989</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 04:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-172989</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve only just managed to find all of these. And they&#039;re totally awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've only just managed to find all of these. And they're totally awesome.</p>
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		<title>By: Apodaca</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-172986</link>
		<dc:creator>Apodaca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 04:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-172986</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Iâ€™m not sure that the 1960s were about feel good comics as much as good value comics. They appealed to all ages...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t really think that&#039;s accurate. Those comics were written for children, and it shows. Most adults don&#039;t need that much exposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Iâ€™m not sure that the 1960s were about feel good comics as much as good value comics. They appealed to all ages...</p></blockquote>
<p>I don't really think that's accurate. Those comics were written for children, and it shows. Most adults don't need that much exposition.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephane Savoie</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-172639</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephane Savoie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-172639</guid>
		<description>I think Alan Moore is doing two different things in 1963, each with its own theme, and it&#039;s unfair to conflate them
  First there is the story, and the meta-story.  For me, the stories are a joy to read.  Everything about them are great.
  The second element is laden in the &quot;promotional hype&quot; columns.  Implicit in some of Moore &quot;Lee-esque&quot; blather are some pretty critical statements about Stan Lee, and Marvel&#039;s approach to the medium and its creators.  I can see why people might this is a downer.    
  I will maintain that the stories themselves are excellent tho, and stand apart of any meta-criticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Alan Moore is doing two different things in 1963, each with its own theme, and it's unfair to conflate them<br />
  First there is the story, and the meta-story.  For me, the stories are a joy to read.  Everything about them are great.<br />
  The second element is laden in the "promotional hype" columns.  Implicit in some of Moore "Lee-esque" blather are some pretty critical statements about Stan Lee, and Marvel's approach to the medium and its creators.  I can see why people might this is a downer.<br />
  I will maintain that the stories themselves are excellent tho, and stand apart of any meta-criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: Scavenger</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-172572</link>
		<dc:creator>Scavenger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-172572</guid>
		<description>Going to agree with RAB...I remember from reading it when it came out, that it just felt mean spirited to me....very much in the vein of Stan Lee sucks and Kirby is awesome (he did make Kirby a god in Supreme).

As for &quot;sell out&quot; period...not necessarily with 1963, or his work for Wildstorm (like WildCATS) but the stuff he was doing for Maximum/Awesome/whatever Liefeld&#039;s Group Was Called (such as Badrock vs Violator) was pretty much for booze money according to a  M/A/WLGWC staffer/artist I knew at the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Going to agree with RAB...I remember from reading it when it came out, that it just felt mean spirited to me....very much in the vein of Stan Lee sucks and Kirby is awesome (he did make Kirby a god in Supreme).</p>
<p>As for "sell out" period...not necessarily with 1963, or his work for Wildstorm (like WildCATS) but the stuff he was doing for Maximum/Awesome/whatever Liefeld's Group Was Called (such as Badrock vs Violator) was pretty much for booze money according to a  M/A/WLGWC staffer/artist I knew at the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Zack</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-172431</link>
		<dc:creator>Zack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-172431</guid>
		<description>Mention not ad favorite 1963 from, my!

Lesson better English offered speaking mail.

Improve!  Speaking my has, also!

Genius man, smart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mention not ad favorite 1963 from, my!</p>
<p>Lesson better English offered speaking mail.</p>
<p>Improve!  Speaking my has, also!</p>
<p>Genius man, smart.</p>
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		<title>By: FunkyGreenJerusalem</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-171755</link>
		<dc:creator>FunkyGreenJerusalem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-171755</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think it was the freedom afforded by Image that appealled to him, and Moore is one of the reasons that Image became the solid company it is today, as opposed to a vanity project for Liefeld and MacFarlane.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That last part is one hell of a statement.
Got any proof for that one, or did he just change your opinion, and there for everybodies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think it was the freedom afforded by Image that appealled to him, and Moore is one of the reasons that Image became the solid company it is today, as opposed to a vanity project for Liefeld and MacFarlane.</p></blockquote>
<p>That last part is one hell of a statement.<br />
Got any proof for that one, or did he just change your opinion, and there for everybodies?</p>
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		<title>By: RAB</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-171580</link>
		<dc:creator>RAB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-171580</guid>
		<description>I have to disagree with the central thesis of this post -- &lt;i&gt;1963&lt;/i&gt; is a satire, and not an especially affectionate one.  At least not on Moore&#039;s part; much of the work by the various artists displays obvious enthusiasm and fondness.  Moore has no such nostalgia for Stan Lee or early Marvel, and the venom is barely concealed.  He never misses an opportunity to point out jingoism and mindless flag-waving, and his affection for the seeming idiocy of vintage Marvel is condescending at best.  By contrast, the homage elements in &lt;i&gt;Supreme&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Tom Strong&lt;/i&gt;, drawing as they do on the history of Silver Age DC and other publishers who aren&#039;t Marvel, are much warmer and -- I&#039;d say -- a lot more accurate and well-observed.

All that said, I don&#039;t actually dislike &lt;i&gt;1963&lt;/i&gt;...but I do see it as a work with a pointed agenda.

To answer one point you raise, as far as I know Moore and the artists worked &quot;Marvel style&quot; on these books -- Moore wrote plot synopses which the artists broke down into pages and panels, then Moore scripted the dialogue to suit the finished art -- so a lot of the visual appeal of the package is down to his collaborators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to disagree with the central thesis of this post -- <i>1963</i> is a satire, and not an especially affectionate one.  At least not on Moore's part; much of the work by the various artists displays obvious enthusiasm and fondness.  Moore has no such nostalgia for Stan Lee or early Marvel, and the venom is barely concealed.  He never misses an opportunity to point out jingoism and mindless flag-waving, and his affection for the seeming idiocy of vintage Marvel is condescending at best.  By contrast, the homage elements in <i>Supreme</i> and <i>Tom Strong</i>, drawing as they do on the history of Silver Age DC and other publishers who aren't Marvel, are much warmer and -- I'd say -- a lot more accurate and well-observed.</p>
<p>All that said, I don't actually dislike <i>1963</i>...but I do see it as a work with a pointed agenda.</p>
<p>To answer one point you raise, as far as I know Moore and the artists worked "Marvel style" on these books -- Moore wrote plot synopses which the artists broke down into pages and panels, then Moore scripted the dialogue to suit the finished art -- so a lot of the visual appeal of the package is down to his collaborators.</p>
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		<title>By: Aqualad</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-171561</link>
		<dc:creator>Aqualad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-171561</guid>
		<description>&quot;The really satirical part comes in when you read this:

The real satire of 1963 doesnâ€™t become apparent until you read this: http://www.comicon.com/moore/interview_affable.htm&quot;

I can&#039;t handle all that alliteration.   Care to summarize?

I collected these books well after the fact, and I always thought of them as equal parts tribute and parody of the Marvel Age.  The letters column and bulletin Items! made it clear that they were stickin it to ol&#039; Smilin&#039; Stan, but I found the stories themselves to be fun and enjoyable, especially Tales From Beyond.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"The really satirical part comes in when you read this:</p>
<p>The real satire of 1963 doesnâ€™t become apparent until you read this: <a href="http://www.comicon.com/moore/interview_affable.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.comicon.com/moore/interview_affable.htm</a>"</p>
<p>I can't handle all that alliteration.   Care to summarize?</p>
<p>I collected these books well after the fact, and I always thought of them as equal parts tribute and parody of the Marvel Age.  The letters column and bulletin Items! made it clear that they were stickin it to ol' Smilin' Stan, but I found the stories themselves to be fun and enjoyable, especially Tales From Beyond.</p>
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		<title>By: John Seavey</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-171555</link>
		<dc:creator>John Seavey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 03:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-171555</guid>
		<description>And, as always whenever anyone mentions &#039;1963&#039;, I remind everyone to go look at the letter column in issue #6, &#039;The Tomorrow Syndicate&#039;, for a letter from Yours Truly and Affable Al&#039;s response. I loved the lettercolumns in that series, and getting one published there was worth ten of any other lettercolumn. (Except for &#039;Groo-Grams&#039;, the letters page so funny that it should get its own trade paperback.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, as always whenever anyone mentions '1963', I remind everyone to go look at the letter column in issue #6, 'The Tomorrow Syndicate', for a letter from Yours Truly and Affable Al's response. I loved the lettercolumns in that series, and getting one published there was worth ten of any other lettercolumn. (Except for 'Groo-Grams', the letters page so funny that it should get its own trade paperback.)</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Atkinson</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-171539</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Atkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 03:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-171539</guid>
		<description>What bugged me somewhat about 1963 (don&#039;t get me wrong, I did enjoy it) is that it didn&#039;t turn out to be quite what the early previews led me to expect.  Specifically, there was an article in CBG that described it as attempting to create a comic that felt like it had come out in 1963, as if you&#039;d come across previously-unknown back issues from a company you&#039;d never heard of.

That would have been an interesting project, but it&#039;s not quite what Moore was doing.  The winks to the modern reader are one thing (besides the crossover with the modern Image universe, there are the heavy-handed attacks on Stan Lee, among other things), but at least one of the stories would never have come out in 1963: the USA story with the Kennedy/Oswald parallels.  Not only would such a story never have been printed back then, and not only is it very unlikely that a comic related to the assassination could have come out in 1963 given how late in the year it took place, but it was clearly a story that could only have been written years later and with the benefit of obsessive study of the Zapruder film.  

It&#039;s possible that this would have been dealt with in the 80-page giant, but without that I&#039;m not sure what Moore was trying to do (trying to produce a story that looked like it accidentally paralleled real-world events by coincidence, or indicate that history had been affected by time travel, or what) apart from massively breaking kayfabe.  Fortunately, it&#039;s the only story like that (apart from the end of the last issue), although Moore did draw on Marvel concepts that hadn&#039;t been introduced in 1963 (there are analogues to SHIELD and Galactus, for example).

On a more positive note, the attention to detail is truly impressive.  CBG pointed out that the colorist mimicked the style of the time by using relatively little yellow, which wasn&#039;t used as much because it was more expensive.  That&#039;s the kind of detail that&#039;s easy to overlook but really contributes to the proper feel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What bugged me somewhat about 1963 (don't get me wrong, I did enjoy it) is that it didn't turn out to be quite what the early previews led me to expect.  Specifically, there was an article in CBG that described it as attempting to create a comic that felt like it had come out in 1963, as if you'd come across previously-unknown back issues from a company you'd never heard of.</p>
<p>That would have been an interesting project, but it's not quite what Moore was doing.  The winks to the modern reader are one thing (besides the crossover with the modern Image universe, there are the heavy-handed attacks on Stan Lee, among other things), but at least one of the stories would never have come out in 1963: the USA story with the Kennedy/Oswald parallels.  Not only would such a story never have been printed back then, and not only is it very unlikely that a comic related to the assassination could have come out in 1963 given how late in the year it took place, but it was clearly a story that could only have been written years later and with the benefit of obsessive study of the Zapruder film.  </p>
<p>It's possible that this would have been dealt with in the 80-page giant, but without that I'm not sure what Moore was trying to do (trying to produce a story that looked like it accidentally paralleled real-world events by coincidence, or indicate that history had been affected by time travel, or what) apart from massively breaking kayfabe.  Fortunately, it's the only story like that (apart from the end of the last issue), although Moore did draw on Marvel concepts that hadn't been introduced in 1963 (there are analogues to SHIELD and Galactus, for example).</p>
<p>On a more positive note, the attention to detail is truly impressive.  CBG pointed out that the colorist mimicked the style of the time by using relatively little yellow, which wasn't used as much because it was more expensive.  That's the kind of detail that's easy to overlook but really contributes to the proper feel.</p>
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		<title>By: Prankster</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-171419</link>
		<dc:creator>Prankster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 01:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-171419</guid>
		<description>The really satirical part comes in when you read this:

The real satire of 1963 doesn&#039;t become apparent until you read this: http://www.comicon.com/moore/interview_affable.htm

And of course, the basic ideas behind 1963 were developed further in Supreme, which then led to Tom Strong. I reall don&#039;t think you can call that the &quot;sellout&quot; period--if Moore had wanted to sell out, he could have kept working for DC. I think it was the freedom afforded by Image that appealled to him, and Moore is one of the reasons that Image became the solid company it is today, as opposed to a vanity project for Liefeld and MacFarlane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The really satirical part comes in when you read this:</p>
<p>The real satire of 1963 doesn't become apparent until you read this: <a href="http://www.comicon.com/moore/interview_affable.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.comicon.com/moore/interview_affable.htm</a></p>
<p>And of course, the basic ideas behind 1963 were developed further in Supreme, which then led to Tom Strong. I reall don't think you can call that the "sellout" period--if Moore had wanted to sell out, he could have kept working for DC. I think it was the freedom afforded by Image that appealled to him, and Moore is one of the reasons that Image became the solid company it is today, as opposed to a vanity project for Liefeld and MacFarlane.</p>
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		<title>By: tolworthy</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-171337</link>
		<dc:creator>tolworthy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-171337</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure that the 1960s were about feel good comics as much as good value comics. They appealed to all ages and anyone could afford them. Today&#039;s uncompressed storylines mean they&#039;re simply not a viable proposition for a person on a budget. Thank goodness for the Essentials!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm not sure that the 1960s were about feel good comics as much as good value comics. They appealed to all ages and anyone could afford them. Today's uncompressed storylines mean they're simply not a viable proposition for a person on a budget. Thank goodness for the Essentials!</p>
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		<title>By: Stephane Savoie</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-171306</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephane Savoie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/26/comics-you-should-own-flashback-1963/#comment-171306</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s worth going into what this series was about:
  How much 90s comics... ergo Image... sucked.
  The big meet-up between Tomorrow Syndicate and the Image-verse (in the 80-page giant) was almost guaranteed to be a scathing commentary of the 90s comics industry.  Since it never happened, Valentino had it happen in his book (Shadowhawk?), and instead it turned into an indictment of the innocence/naivete of the 60s.  It was one of the more aggravating moments of 90s comics, and still burns my blood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it's worth going into what this series was about:<br />
  How much 90s comics... ergo Image... sucked.<br />
  The big meet-up between Tomorrow Syndicate and the Image-verse (in the 80-page giant) was almost guaranteed to be a scathing commentary of the 90s comics industry.  Since it never happened, Valentino had it happen in his book (Shadowhawk?), and instead it turned into an indictment of the innocence/naivete of the 60s.  It was one of the more aggravating moments of 90s comics, and still burns my blood.</p>
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