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I'm surprised so many people think of action, FPS, etc. games when they think of video games. Many genres need storytelling - Indigo Prophecy, RPGs, etc. This isn't new either - take a look at Fallout (1997), Final Fantasy 6, or the old SCUMM games. Not all games need story but yes, Halo and Half-Life have made consumers demand decent stories in games that used to require none. Bioshock definitely ups the ante but again, that's for a specific genre - other games and genres have been doing this for years.

It's also worth noting that the adventure game genre (to which games like Trinity roughly belong) is dead, dead, a thousand times dead, at least on a commercial level. Sometime in the mid '90s they stopped selling completely, and when people talk about "increased sophistication" they apparently mean frankensteining elements of those old, superior genres of games into a framework where it's awkward, clumsy, and fits poorly. This does not exactly lead me to positive conclusions about the gaming industry, but then again, I'm just an old fart who misses Steve Meretzsky.

"Interacting with the world replaces the need for such a strong story - it would get in the way of your interaction."

I agree whole-heartedly.

And recall that some films and novels-- and perhaps comics-- don't really tell stories. They evoke a place, a time, a mood-- a world.

Bob Altman said his films were more like paintings in time than vehicles for stories-- and some works, like Francois Truffaut's Small Change, really only observe behaviour around a theme.

There was a time when _not_ having a story (whichever medium you were working in) was considered a badge of honour. And it's curious-- and upsetting-- that one of the few mediums that's staunchly and gloriously anti-story-- that's absolutely terrific at creating a world-- is going against itself trying to suck up to the other, more respectable mediums. And not even the "good" work of those mediums; as others have pointed out, all they aspire to is popcorn-level theatrics.

I think you’re just giving the video game story a lot more leeway. Go over the plot to a MGS game in your head. Write down the highlights and then read them out loud, in sequence. Without the joy of playing the game attahced, you might not be as impressed with the story.

Yeah, but do that with popular films and comics, and you might not be as impressed either.

I think we're also ignoring games like GTA and Bully that actually create worlds for you to be in. Interacting with the world replaces the need for such a strong story - it would get in the way of your interaction.
Or Red Dead Revolver (a spaghetti western) or The Warriors game - there was a much plot as there was in the film/genres they were emulating, but it was more about the feel, and that they got perfectly.

(and no, it wasn't intentional that I only cited Rockstar games... that said, they do put out a much higher quality more often than their competition).

If you don’t think Halo and MGS (the first one - they’ve gotten progressively more indecipherable) aren’t better than summer blockbusters, then you’ve been seeing some much better summer blockbusters than I have

Nope. I think you're just giving the video game story a lot more leeway. Go over the plot to a MGS game in your head. Write down the highlights and then read them out loud, in sequence. Without the joy of playing the game attahced, you might not be as impressed with the story.

The Sam & Max games have great stories as do most other adventure games. Indigo Prophexy has an excellent story until the end - apparently it was intended to be a trilogy that was cut down to one game. The other Black Isle games have great stories. There's also the old Infocom (Zork, etc.) and SCUMM (Monkey Island) games.

PS:T is on the level of a novel and deserves the label 'art' more than any other game.

Are they art? Sure, sometimes, sometimes not so much. They are entertainment, and any creative project is unless it's being produced entirely for the artist's own benefit (unless we argue that the artist is entertaining themselves in the creation thereof, which they are). So I don't see how games are intrinsically lesser or greater as art than any other medium, whichever element you're focussing on.

Comic book games? I personally haven't seen any great storytelling from comic games, not yet, but that has far more to do with the product the companies want to produce than with what can or can't be done. Some comic games are certainly more developed in that regard than others.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - I thought the Spiderman 2 game, tying into the film, had a better story than the film.
Instead of giving up being Spiderman, Black Cat convinced him to give up being Peter Parker. It had the same effect, and got the character to the same places as in the film, but was much more interesting.
Ultimate Spiderman has an alright story - hilariously it actually feels padded! But the game play itself is so poor and repetitive you don’t care.
(After the joys of jumping off sky scrapers and getting a sense of vertigo in Spiderman 2, in Ultimate Spiderman they decided to keep you close to the ground… because apparently that’s what everybody likes about Spidey).

Too right. I've said the exact same thing on many different occasions.

As for the interactive games are toys and shouldn't have stories argument, what can I say? There are plenty of people out there who would rather get their stories from something more interactive than reading or even watching a movie. Video games are just as valid a storytelling outlet as books, movies, and comics. Welcome to the 21st century.

Now, that doesn't mean that they are all *good* - but that's a different discussion.

Not to say that I haven't seen some video games don't have nice stories - Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic has a better, more Star Wars-ish storyline than the prequels, and Irrational creates good storylines in their games (e.g., the System Shock and Freedom Force games) - but I don't think it's an end that developers should be sweating over too much.

You have a point; the intent of the analogy was to be a bit ridiculous. But I'd rather have a game with just a hint of story-- like Super Mario Bros., or Mega Man, or, glory of glories, MC Kids-- then, as you point out, DragonSlayer, just as I just want a little bit of garlic.

Unless it's pasta night.

"Or that movies need color. Yes, you can get by without that portion of the final product, but it’s better with it than without."

Hahahahahahaha-- movies better with colour, ohmigosh--hahahaha--

Oh, wait.

You're serious.

(crickets)

Or, to be less polemical-- some movies, like some comic books, are better with colour. And some movies, like some comic books, are better in black-and-white.

See? This is kinda sorta steering things back towards comics.

The cooking/sex/baseball analogy isn't comparing things on the same level. Saying that videogames need stories isn't like saying that cooking needs characterization, it's like saying that cooking needs garlic. Or that movies need color. Yes, you can get by without that portion of the final product, but it's better with it than without. Videogames without stories stop evolving at the Pong level - very loose computer programming. "Push button X now." Just a series of commands.

A good example of a "videogame" that strays too far into story rather than interactivity? Dragon's Lair, which was basically a cartoon with a jump button...