I love Kyle’s art and stories normally (really!), but for some weird reason he was the go-to guy when it came to drawing the Joker for years at DC. Thank gawd those days are over.

Anyway I hope they don’t overuse li’l Joker. I did like his last appearance in that Zatanna storyline.

“Have one last talk with Harley and really see if I can’t convey to her the depths of my true feelings, the–”

The above is all scratched out, and below it is written, “KILL HARLEY.”

A few items further down. “Look into having an heir. Perhaps Harley and I–see above. Perhaps I can adopt?”

“Talk to Vatican, see if that whole ‘selling my soul to Neron’ thing is legit.”

There’s more–it’s a great gag. (‘Last Laugh’ was a really good crossover that suffered from two things; one, Chuck Dixon said they were really going to kill off the Joker and they didn’t–yes, yes, I know, his heart stopped for a few seconds so they technically did, but to imply a ‘Death of the Joker’ story and not give one feels like cheating the readers to me, and it did to just about everyone else too. And two, it came just two months after ‘Our Worlds at War’, and everyone was just sick of crossovers…to the point that ‘Last Laugh’ was the last crossover until ‘Identity Crisis’.)

But here’s what I find most interesting: I had a two or three villians on both of my lists, but overall the ratio of villains to heroes is very low. Does anyone else find that odd? I mean, sure, you want the good guys to win, but really (as Hitchcock once noted), these stories are only as good as their villains. Really bad-ass bad guys are key to the superhero genre, and if you don’t have a few favorite villains, well … I just don’t understand it.

Anyway, my Batman villain who made the cut was The Riddler, whom I find a far more interesting character … and though “Hush” was lacking in many regards, the idea that Eddie Nigma was smart enough to figure out the Bruce Wayne facade struck me as absolutely right-on. And now he’s getting an exciting new life thanks to Dini as the smart, savvy but questionably reformed detective. Love it!

The Joker’s goal in TKJ was to drive Gordon mad, on the assumption that a sane person could go as insane as the Joker from just one bad day. It didn’t work, needless to say, but it makes sense in that context.

But yeah, I agree with you. (I also think that an awesome DC story would start with Batman just being taking out by a sniper shooting him thru the lower half of his face, but that’s me.

My favorite take on the Joker is the Mark Hamill version. He nailed the part, making him scary and menacing and loads of fun at the same time, in a way the comic version never did for me. They didn’t need to show the Joker killing a bunch of people to show how terrifying he is. Just knowing he’s capable of it is frightening enough.

Have a good day.
John Cage

My problem is a failure of DC editorial, frankly. Joker’s responsible for hundreds and hundreds (thousands now? I’m not sure) of deaths, but no one kills him? Sorry, but the next time Batman leaves him trussed up at a precinct house, some cop (most of whom have lost friends, family, and/or coworkers to this guy) would pump six rounds into his skull. Or another bereaved relative would simply drop him with a rifle from a nearby rooftop. Or an Arkham attendant would give him too much medicine. There would be so many contracts out on this guy, issued by friends and family of people he’s murdered, he wouldn’t be able to show his head without it getting blown off.

Don’t get me wrong — should he be a crazy killer? Yes, probably (though we don’t get too see enough of the calculating criminal genius). But the ridiculously stratospheric body count that’s constantly jacked up by each successive writer should be immediately terminated by editorial decree. Yeah — that will happen.

“With the possible exceptions of Spider-Man and X-Men characters. But then again, you were probably limiting your statement to DC.”

Actually, I’ll disagree about limiting the statement to DC. As I mentioned in the Marvel thread, he’s the @#$ Batman! Characters from the Batman titles (including Joker) took 7 of the top 50 spots. Compared to 12 for the Avengers, 14 for the X-Men, and 15 for the Justice League, that’s pretty small. But the Batman titles really aren’t a team. Comparing to other single characters with too many titles, Superman only got 3, Spiderman got 3 and Wolverine only got himself. (Yes, I am counting the people that haven’t shown up but everyone expects.)

Even more telling, the X-men collectively garnered 5587 points for 15 characters to the Bat-clan’s 2829 for 7 characters (not including Batman yet). Bat-clan’s average is 404 points (roughly 12th place) to X-Men’s 372 (roughly 20th place). While X-Men have a greater breadth of popularity, I’d say the Bat-Clan characters are more popular. This isn’t even counting the points from the Dark Knight himself.

For comparison, Fantastic Four have 1934 points for 7 members with an average of 276 points (30th place). Avengers have 5377 points for 12 characters or an average of 448 points (16th place).

I’ll admit that I’m not even entirely positive with Avengers numbers since several of their members are still to come and they’ve had so MANY members. Do you count Spiderman? Daredevil? Reed Richards? Beast? Black Panther? (I didn’t include Richards or Panther, but I did include everyone else.) Similiarly with the Fantastic Four. Do you stay with the original 4 or include She-Hulk, Storm, Black Panther, etc? (I included all of those.)

Now, Luthor…. there’s a villain…

(and, oh, if Marshall had only drawn more books– I used to keep a toy guitar with a Foozle embossed on it.)

With the possible exceptions of Spider-Man and X-Men characters. But then again, you were probably limiting your statement to DC.

A agree that the Joker is a classic villian. Nothing is quite as unsettling as when we peer into the slack-jawed gaze of true insanity (to quote Rush). Sadistic, evil, meglomaniacial insanity is extremely difficult to battle. Add an extremely high intelligence to the equation and it is truely frightening.

The only thing I don’t agree with so far is the statement that he could take on anyone.

Considering that he has NO powers, and Gotham is a little violent, you’d think someone would have just shot him by now. Can’t you see it? Joker walks into where-ever and starts a rant about something. Someone murmers under their breath “We’ve had enough of this idiot”, calmly pulls a gun, and shoots Joker in the head. Wouldn’t it just be icing on the cake if it was “elf with a gun” from the 70′s Defenders!

Having never read the Killing Joke I assumed that the Joker knew. The idea doesn’t work quite as well this way I don’t think. Then again, it does speak a little more to the randomness and insanity of the Joker. Eh, What do I know?

As an aside I’m surprised to see someone complaining about the Bat-Characters “being rammed down our throats” in spite of the evidence here indicating how beloved they really are. I never really understood the “rammed down our throats” thing myself (seems a little silly I mean you print what sells right?) but come on, people love the Bat-Characters like no other grouping apparently.