Comments on: Offered without editorial comment

By: Rohan Williams

Rohan Williams — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 03:00:56 +0000

Wow, you're right, Dan, nice catch. Sorry, km.

By: Apodaca

Apodaca — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:53:58 +0000

It kinda sounds like you are snarking, km, because you choose to phrase it as â€œheâ€™s deliberately trying to be badâ€, when thatâ€™s clearly not what was said.

Actually, that is what was said, by Punch. I've quoted it below:

People are complaining that it has bad and clunky dialogue. Thatâ€™s an obvious stylistic choice.

He says right there, that bad is an obvious stylistic choice. Now, this, I don't doubt. I think Miller is completely aware of how he's writing and how it reads. He just likes that. I don't. The style is a matter of personal preference, yes, but the clunkiness is a matter of craft. That can be judged objectively.

By: will_butler

will_butler — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:36:44 +0000

I bought the first issue and hated it so much that I gave it back to the comic shop. I didn't ask for my money back, but I just preferred not to have it in my house. Reading that "Thomas Jefferson" line makes me think that I may have made a serious mistake.

By: Rohan Williams

Rohan Williams — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:36:14 +0000

It's not entirely defensiveness, as it is an answer to the question you posed one post earlier. But you're right- ASBAR is definitely a take-it-or-leave-it book, so it's not hard to figure out why a lot of people don't care for it.

By: km

km — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:01:52 +0000

And I'm not entirely sure why a 'fun book' etc should inspire such defensiveness in its fans. It's perfectly OK for me (and others) to dislike it just as intensely as you like it, y'know?

That said, we do seem to have reached an impasse in this argument. Thanks and signing off now.

By: Rohan Williams

Rohan Williams — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:43:17 +0000

It kinda sounds like you are snarking, km, because you choose to phrase it as "he's deliberately trying to be bad", when that's clearly not what was said. 'Not naturalistic' doesn't equal 'bad' (although in this particular case, it clearly hasn't equalled an artistic masterpiece either, so it's not like the snark is unwarranted). It's just a different style, that I happen to be enjoying a hell of a lot, and apparently so are a decent amount of other people. Sure, it has flaws, and it's not a patch on the work Miller did with the character in the '80s, but I can't see how a fun book with deliberately over-the-top characters that comes out once in a blue moon has come to be regarded as such a crime against humanity.

By: km

km — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:30:11 +0000

OK, so he's deliberately trying to be bad (far unlike, it must be said, Ed Wood). That's a good thing how exactly? (Not snarking, just curious).

By: Punch

Punch — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 08:17:14 +0000

But it's all about intention. People are complaining that it has bad and clunky dialogue. That's an obvious stylistic choice. If you don't like that choice, then fine. But it's not like Miller is trying to write naturalistic dialogue and failing. The difference between Ed Wood the director and Ed Wood the movie.

By: Omar Karindu

Omar Karindu — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 05:27:33 +0000

If something that can be enjoyed by its devotees cannot be dismissed as crap, then the existence of coprophilia suggests that even actual crap is not crap.

This would suggest that it is indeed possible for something to be crap while having some set of people who enjoy it. Even Coleman Francis has an admirer somewhere, and no one in their right minds is going to call his films anything but crap.

By: Brad Curran

Brad Curran — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 03:03:11 +0000

I dunno, these selections make me more interested in reading the book than I was.

By: km

km — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:35:38 +0000

Apodaca -actually thatâ€™s exactly how it works. Crap has no redeeming value at all.

Where on earth did you get the idea that entertainment has to have redeeming value in order to please fans? Not from American pop culture, obviously.

By: Punch

Punch — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:08:42 +0000

Apodaca -actually that's exactly how it works. Crap has no redeeming value at all.

By: Lucion

Lucion — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 23:39:42 +0000

I want to be Batman for my Halloween party just so I can walk around muttering "I'm the goddamn Batman." I figure wandering around in a stained white tank top, torn jeans, and the cowl coupled with a bottle of beer and smoking a cigarette would be grand. If only I knew a single person outside of this blog that would get it...

By: Apodaca

Apodaca — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 22:42:54 +0000

Itâ€™s not crap because it can be enjoyed by fans.

That's not how it works.

Geez, you people really canâ€™t let that Bin Laden thing go, can you? Anyone can isolate a single quote from a guy out of context and then use it to characterize his whole body of work, but is that really proof of anything?

Easy there, Trigger. I don't think his post had anything to do with which story he was talking about. Just the fact that his description of it was so fratboyish and ripe with false machismo bullshit.

By: T.

T. — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:52:51 +0000

Let's see if this post fixes the formatting problem or makes it worse

By: T.

T. — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:51:58 +0000

Yeah, I read an interview where he said that Batman fighting Osama bin Laden â€œwasnâ€™t going to be pussyâ€, and I thought, â€œMan, that guy is so thoughtful.â€

Geez, you people really can't let that Bin Laden thing go, can you? Anyone can isolate a single quote from a guy out of context and then use it to characterize his whole body of work, but is that really proof of anything?

By: h3yd

h3yd — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:32:57 +0000

You know, one thing that can definitely be said for this book: it gets people talking. It may be more polarizing than Hilary Clinton, but it does open up a dialog. It's more than can be said for universally panned books like Countdown or Amazons Attack. I don't think I've seen anyone jump to the defense of either book.

By: The Mutt

The Mutt — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:59:27 +0000

Mickey Spillane is parody-proof, like porn or professional wrestling. If you're doing it, then you're doing it.

BTW, Shaun of the Dead was neither a parody nor an homage of zombie movies. It was a zombie movie, and one of the best ever.

By: Punch

Punch — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:36:57 +0000

Well if you want to take one line out of context, sure, go ahead. Why don't you post the full quote, or the things he said before or after that? Because that would disprove your point?

By: sean

sean — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:21:31 +0000

By the way -- Cool Points should be offered to anybody who can find the *one* time in the entire issue that "Batman" is said without being preceded by "Goddamn".