Comic Book Resources

What the heck is countdown even about?

Never even seen an issue, but the way it gets ragged on, it must be the worst piece of shit published this side of Heroes Reborn.

Like I said at the other Bedard post, I think that LITG piece was just referring to the creators being taken off Countdown, not other books they were working on. I assume the “not knowing what their next job will be” bit just refers to not knowing what will take the spot in their schedules filled by Countdown chores.

“Never even seen an issue, but the way it gets ragged on, it must be the worst piece of shit published this side of Heroes Reborn.”
Ha! By that standard, there probably aren’t any good books out there.

Countdown is basically a “This Week in the DC Universe” comic, where it will show reactions to whatever the big event from that week is.

When there isn’t a big event, it follows around seven groups of characters throughout the DC Multiverse:

-Pied Piper and Trickster, who have been shackled together, and are traveling through DC’s seedy underbelly

- Mary Marvel, who has been given new powers from Black Adam, and is now being turned evil by Eclipso, so we’re seeing her travel through DC’s magic community

- Jimmy Olsen has gained powers, and I guess we’re using him to show the story that involves killing off the New Gods

- Holly (from Catwoman) and Harley Quinn are being trained as new Amazons (also tied into the New Gods story, as Granny Goodness is the head of the new Amazons)

- Karate Kid and 1/3 of Triplicate Girl are here from the future investigating some OMAC virus

- Donna Troy, Kyle Rayner and Jason Todd are searching through the multiverse for Ray Palmer with a Monitor, on the run from the other Monitors

- Captain Atom is now Monarch and he is building an army to fight the Monitors

Oh, and it is really bad.

ENOUGH ALREADY! I AM SICK OF THESE RIDICULOUS SPECIAL EVENT, YEAR LONG, EARTH, UNIVERSE, CRISIS, SHATTERING ‘EVENT’ SERIES.

THEY ARE CHEAP ILL-CONCEIVED GIMMICKS TO CON THE PUBLIC OUT OF THEIR MONEY.

DC, IF YOU WANT TO SELL MORE COMICS, TRY THE OLD FORMULA; GREAT ARTISTS, GREAT STORIES, LESS CYNICISM, LESS PC, & MORE HOPE FOR A BETTER TOMORROW.

That sounds terrible.

So you follow a group of characters just wandering about, I presume really just killing time until they are in a crossover, except when there’s a big event and then you just get reactions to that event that they couldn’t fit in the book itself?

And Paul Dini put his name on this?

So… they wanted to kill the weekly format?

(And the biggest sin of all is giving Jimmy powers – any silver age reader knows that the first thing Jimmy does when he gets powers is try to kill Superman!)

Oh, and it is really bad.

And yet you can’t stop reading it can you?

Sicko.

I read many bad comics. I do it for you all!

So you follow a group of characters just wandering about, I presume really just killing time until they are in a crossover, except when there’s a big event and then you just get reactions to that event that they couldn’t fit in the book itself?

Basically.

PLUS, just for fun, for some of the bigger worlds Kyle, Donna and Jason go to, they get their own special one-shots ON TOP of the Countdown issues which basically amount to, “Wow, this world is a lot different than ours.” “You’re right!”

I read many bad comics. I do it for you all!

And yet you don’t review them anymore!

And with no Joe, that means the only regular opinion we get is Gregs.

GREGS!

Yeah, enough of this counting stuff. Let’s have some reviews!

Do any of the fifty two worlds have any really killer, or original ideas behind them?

And yet you don’t review them anymore!

And with no Joe, that means the only regular opinion we get is Gregs.

GREGS!

I still review them! I did one on the Wolverine Annual recently! And I have a piece up later today on both Archie Comics and Claremont’s last Excalibur.

“So you follow a group of characters just wandering about, I presume really just killing time until they are in a crossover, except when there’s a big event and then you just get reactions to that event that they couldn’t fit in the book itself?”

Countdown’s worst sin there is that there don’t appear to be any larger character arcs like in 52–each step on the various groups’ journey is just another repetitive step to fill another issue.

Countdown’s worst sin there is that there don’t appear to be any larger character arcs like in 52–each step on the various groups’ journey is just another repetitive step to fill another issue.

You are correct, that, in a nutshell, IS Countdown’s biggest problem.

I had assumed that “creators” in this case referred to artists, who were much more easily swapped on this series (since they don’t need to have been on the planning meetings thus far, for instance). Regardless, but of a dick move.

FunkyGreenJerusalem are any of the 52 worlds good?

I’ve heard rumor that one of them is all are favorite heros as women. That means more, ummm, more appeal for the male readers.

Like Derek said in reply 17:

From what Carlin’s said on newsarama and other things I’ve heard, I almost certainly assumed that this issue was all about artists and not writers. This would be his idea as a way to give the book a boost, by putting a loto f bigger named artists on the book.

I mean hell. Bedard’s doing four issues of Countdown in a row, and here’s what he said about that on his CBR forum:

“Yeah, I’m scripting a bunch all at once. There’s a story reason for doing it this way, since that month will be pretty much devoted to one particular conflict amongst the several plot-lines in COUNTDOWN. And I do think Pete Woods is doing the art.”

I just can’t imagine DC treating him overly poorly after all of the great pinch hitting he’s done on their books for the last year.

I may cry, FunkyGreenJerusalem. In fact, I think I will. Do you see what you made me do?!?!?!?

It´s just curious, people criticize Countdown and haven’t even read a single issue…

The big problem of Countdown it´s the slow pace. But it´s not that bad as people say. I´m interested in the Jimmy Olsen, Mary Marvel, Monarch and Karate Kid stories.

And of course there´s something happening. It´s building (very slowly )into something. Just read it instead of whining about it.

It´s kind of funny that World War Hulk doesn´t get the same criticism:

Issue 1 – Hulk smash

Issue 2 – Hulk smash

Issue 3 – Hulk beats the crap out of everyone.

Wow! What a great story!

That’s because World War Hulk didn’t advertise itself as being anything more than four issues of Hulk smashing, and then a fifth issue of Hulk getting beaten somehow.

Countdown was advertised very pointedly as the next 52, which had its own clearly delineated plotlines (so much so that 52 actually didn’t achieve what it was meant to do – explain what happened during the “one year later” gap – very well, but nobody cared too much about that).

From Publisher Weekly:

So how much is Countdown thematically a sequel to 52? “Apples and oranges,” DiDio said.

“Countdown’s worst sin there is that there don’t appear to be any larger character arcs like in 52–each step on the various groups’ journey is just another repetitive step to fill another issue.”

Exactly. For a title that is supposedly counting down to something big, there is disturbingly little forward momentum with any of its plotlines.

Piper and Trickster keep on running, never getting anywhere.

Jimmy keeps having powers and can’t figure out why.

Donna, Jason, and Kyle pop up on a new Earth and don’t find Ray Palmer.

Holly wears a toga and fights things.

Val and 33% of Luornu talk to random people.

Mary acts evil and shows off her panties a lot.

All of this has been happening for weeks on end, with no real progression in the narrative. Most stories are divided into three arcs: beginning, middle, and end. It seems like the entire second act of Countdown is all of the characters just circling around until the final act starts and things actually begin happening to set up Final Crisis (I hope. There’s always a chance that the final act will be more circling until all of these plots get resolved IN Final Crisis). Honestly, I think the writers came into Countdown thinking they had a bigger story then they ultimately ended up with.

Let’s also not forget that some major events in the series aren’t even occurring within the main Countdown narrative. The false returns that DC got on the World War III one-shots convinced them that they should’ve been trying to tie into 52 more, so they’re trying to put as many spin-off books into it as they can, hence why we have Countdown: Ray Palmer’s not in this castle, Countdown: Arena (though in fairness, upon talking to Keith Champagne about this, I’m excited about it and he admitted he didn’t want the Countdown label on it), Countdown to 52- er… space heroes from 52, Countdown to Myst- oh… Eclipso backup story that isn’t part of the main story, and Countdown: Third-rate Marvel Villain rip-offs that no one was asking to see again. 52 worked because it was self-contained and the story progressed and was interesting. I don’t remember when Dan Didio slipped in the “Secret of 52″ thing, but even that revelation didn’t ruin momentum for the series since it was still so damn GOOD. Plot twists felt natural and were built upon based on the previous readings – the clues were there for us to find (Skeets as evil, Booster “dying” then coming back, Ralph Dibny trapping Felix Faust). Unless Countdown REALLY manages to throw us for a loop, I don’t see the same thing happening.

The interesting worlds in the current 52 multiverse are more or less identical to the interesting worlds in the pre-Crisis multiverse. There are also some worlds that exist in order to make certain popular Elseworlds and parallel dimension stories from post-Crisis canon. They’re interesting if you liked the original story they’re canonizing. Finally, one of them is the Wildstorm universe that DC can’t be bothered to put effort into publishing on time.

The one “new” world Countdown introduced, which was so stupid it got its very own CSBG post about how stupid it was, is Earth-15. Earth-15 is in theory an “ideal” world with no crime where Donna and Jason actually inherited the mantles of Wonder Woman and Batman, the Atom is a hot girl for some reason, and Superman is General Zod. While there is probably some twist in mind for this Earth, the issue it first appears in is incredibly bad.

To whom might Johnston be referring?

Dini’s got a Batbook, so he’s covered.

Palmiotti and Gray have Jonah Hex and Freedom Fighters.

McKeever’s taking on BoP and Teen Titans.

That leaves Bedard, who’s off B&O, and Beechen, who’s working on…what, exactly?

Hurm…

It´s just curious, people criticize Countdown and haven’t even read a single issue…

Like who? Brian’s been following the series.

Not to mention the fact that you can easily keep up with a comic these days without actually holding it in your hands. Especially with something like countdown, where CBR has a regular feature recapping the latest issue.

Or are you just making some vain attempt to discredit the people who disagree with you?

So wait…what? When did Bedard get replaced by Dixon on B&TO?? I never even saw that reported anywhere, but that would make sense given a comment I saw from Dixon in a recent interview where he talked about an assignment that would be out before Robin and which there wouldn’t be much advance word of.

Bedard has done a great job as DC’s ‘fill-in’ guy on Legion, Supergirl, and Birds Of Prey, plus I liked his Black Canary mini, though it was obvious that DC Editorial had already dictated what was going to happen. If DC is trying to get rid of Bedard, while hanging onto mediocre writers like Adam Beechen and Will Pfeiffer…well, then there’s a strong indication that DC have finally and completely lost their mind…

“Not to mention the fact that you can easily keep up with a comic these days without actually holding it in your hands. Especially with something like countdown, where CBR has a regular feature recapping the latest issue.”
This is kinda off-topic, and not intended as a defence of Countdown, but surely you appreciate the substantial difference between ‘keeping up with a comic’ and reading recap pages, and actually knowing whether or not it’s any good?

This is kinda off-topic, and not intended as a defence of Countdown, but surely you appreciate the substantial difference between ‘keeping up with a comic’ and reading recap pages, and actually knowing whether or not it’s any good?

We really don’t need another debate about synopsis vs reading/seeing something yourself.
It’s been years since that x-board thread, and some of us still carry the pain.

CARACTACUS POTTS said”
“DC, IF YOU WANT TO SELL MORE COMICS, TRY THE OLD FORMULA; GREAT ARTISTS, GREAT STORIES, LESS CYNICISM, LESS PC, & MORE HOPE FOR A BETTER TOMORROW.”
—–
Except for maybe the ‘less cynicism’, you’ve just described All Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder.

There are a lot of assumptions being made that DC is hating on Tony Bedard all because Chuck Dixon got one of his assignments.

Maybe Bedard felt over worked.
Maybe Bedard had a personal situation come up.
Maybe Bedard felt he simply wasn’t “getting” the character.

And maybe DC truly does hate Bedard. To endlessly speculate is frivolous.