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CBR Live! Archive

Friday at the Librarians' Roundtable

I suspect that most of us who are in and around comic books tend to think of them as a very specialized thing, our private preserve. But the truth of the matter is that while we are going blithely along from Wednesday to Wednesday at the comics shop, used to seeing a wall of Marvel, a wall of DC, and maybe a wall of 'other stuff'... there is a whole OTHER community of people who are interacting with the world of comics in a completely different way.

Specifically, they deal with comics not as periodical monthly magazines, but rather as books. Bookstores and libraries are very interested in comics as a way of getting new readers in the door. And it's working.

Librarians and educators, especially, are growing keenly aware of the value of comics as a literacy tool. My own experience teaching reflects this -- fourteen years ago, when I pitched the idea of a kids' comics class to the art studio where I'm on staff, it was viewed as a somewhat nutty experiment and even then they hedged their bets by calling it 'cartooning.' This year I had three different schools asking me to come help them put a comics program together. Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined that kind of mainstream acceptance -- hell, eagerness -- about incorporating comics into a public school program when I was young. Even a decade ago it seemed like a bit of a reach.

Not today.

Over the last few years, teaching, there have been occasions where I've been partnered with several youth librarians in putting together special events around comics and cartoons at the library, and I'm always impressed with what I see. Believe me, that's a group of people that pays VERY close attention to 'what the kids are reading.' The folks who run the teen programs in the public libraries I've been to are every bit as much educators as any other teacher in a classroom. I've found them to be smart, funny, deeply passionate about literacy and getting young people reading... and they are putting a lot of comics in front of a lot of kids.

Weirdly -- well, it seems weird to me -- the explosion of comics into our public libraries over the last couple of decades is a phenomenon that goes largely unremarked in the mainstream comics press. I hardly ever see anyone in the comics press talk about it, anyway, so I decided that I'd ask a couple of the youth librarians I knew to share their thoughts on the subject.

I asked Jennifer Bisson and Hayden Bass of the Seattle Public Library's Teen Program if they'd mind answering a few questions, and both ladies were very gracious and giving of their time. Here's what they had to say.

How many graphic novels, roughly, do you carry in your library? And does any one particular style or genre predominate?

Hayden: "Well, it depends on what you mean by 'library.'  In our library system, we have upwards of 4,500 graphic novel titles, with multiple copies (usually at least 5 or more) of each.  Here at the Central Library, we own over 3,500 titles.  Manga is hugely popular, as are superhero comics.  But so are indie comics, graphic biographies, graphic histories, etc.  Pound for pound, comics and graphic novels circulate far more heavily than traditional books do.  Our graphic novel collection is heavily browsed, too--for every graphic novel that is checked out, two are probably read right here on Level 3 without ever circulating."

Jennifer adds: "I will check on this with our Collection Services people. My best guess on what Central, alone, owns would be something like eight hundred to a thousand manga books, and at least six to eight hundred other graphic novels. Now, a smaller branch library would have maybe three hundred to four hundred graphic novel and manga titles total, and a larger branch, four to six hundred. We have 26 branches in all and of those I'd say a third are the small branches, the other two-thirds are the larger ones."

And here is the e-mail reply to Jennifer's request from Collection Services.

There really isn't a way to get a definitive number on the graphic novels in the system, but you can get a sense of the size and popularity of the 740 Dewey Decimal classification (which is more than comics/manga/graphic novels, but does include them) when you look at the three separate spreadsheets for Adult Children's and Young Adult Circulation and Holdings by Dewey in the 2006 Horizon reports. I have been keeping a spreadsheet for the past several years of Adult/Teen/Children's Graphic Novel/Manga/Comics series that we have added to the collection.  What I'm showing now is approximately 230 series/titles that we are currently receiving and approximately 50 more that have completed in the past few years.  As you know, each series generally has multiple volumes and we buy multiple copies of each volume.  For the most popular series, I buy 13 (or more if high demand necessitates) copies,  the second-tier series I usually buy 8-9, and for some series, particularly adult, I'll buy 5-6.  In addition I purchase multiple copies of many single volume works for all age groups that aren't part of a series and that I don't track on my spreadsheet. 

I don't have a separate budget for graphic novels. They are charged to the non-fiction budget for whichever collection (adult/teen/children's) they are being purchased for.

Obviously you have limitations of budget and so on. Can you talk a little about those limitations, and what criteria goes in to choosing what you add to a collection? How often do you add books -- is there a set interval like once a year, or a certain time of the year, or is this an ongoing thing? Say a comics publisher wanted to get a library to consider their book. How does that work? Can you walk us through that process?

Hayden: "All of the selection for the Seattle Public Library is done centrally, which means that all of our comics are selected by one individual (who does a fantastic job). Once a year, we Teen Librarians request a list of graphic novels to fill in the gaps we see in our collections.  That way we can make sure that we have enough copies (or at least close to enough copies!) of the kinds of materials that are especially popular in our own communities.

"If a publisher contacted me personally with a book that sounded like a good addition, I would send the information along to our collection librarian and ask her to review it.  She takes staff requests very seriously, and she would probably purchase the book if she agreed that it looked like a worthwhile collection to the library.  Lately the library's budget for graphic novels and manga has expanded along with the expanding readership of these formats."

Are comics or graphic novels increasing interest in reading for teens overall, or do they tend to stay just with the comics and manga? In other words, do comics work as a gateway to reading for young people?

Hayden: "Yes, I think comics absolutely work as 'gateway books' for many children and teens who had previously considered themselves non-readers.  Once you're in the habit of turning those pages, it's that much easier to pick up the next book. For instance, I recently spoke with a teacher who told me that one of her students who had always hated reading had ended up reading a graphic novel version of Moby Dick. 

 Classy Classics from First.

"He loved it, and was now working his way through the entire series of graphic classics.  He's gaining so much confidence in his abilities as a reader that now he doesn't have the mental block that he used to have when beginning a new title.  I hear stories like this all the time, of kids and teens who enter the world of reading through the door of graphic novels."

Jennifer: "All the ones we have are of interest to our teens. Many younger teens and upper-elementary kids read the traditional comics from DC and Marvel but also Bone, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Sailor Moon, mixed in with the one-off graphic novels."

 Who doesn't love Bone?

"Many of these are cataloged in the Teen section but seem to be of more interest to the 20, 30, and 40-somethings. I'm thinking of things like Ghost World, East Coast Rising, Goodbye Chunky Rice, and so on. 

More indie goodness at your local library.

"However, many older teens do read this kind of thing as well. I would say that the teenagers and adults are using the superhero stuff about equally, but the manga circulation is hugely weighted towards teen use. I do see a slow increase of adult readers using our manga section. Perhaps many of them started with manga in their teens and stay with it as they reach their twenties and thirties.

"One thing that might be helpful to understand is how Seattle Public Library deals with cataloging all these things. The largest collection of manga and graphic novels and so on is cataloged in our Teen section. Of course they are available to everyone to use but they are housed with our other teen materials.

"There is a small but slowly-growing collection of children's stuff -- we get a ton of patron requests for these kind of 'clean' comics and in fact a few librarians keep a running booklist on 'comics for kids.' And then there is the adult stuff like Crumb or Sin City. Almost all the manga is in the Teen section. Most newspaper comic collections are shelved separately by their nonfiction call number: all the Calvin and Hobbes, Peanuts, etc.

There is a certain charm to the idea of Calvin and Hobbes being nonfiction.

"There are a few exceptions like Zits, Boondocks, and Penny Arcade that go in the Teen section. I wish they were all together in the Teen section as it would be easier for our patrons.  I think it is done this way because for a long time the newspaper-strip collections were the only kind of thing like this in the library and they were not enough for a separate section."

Hayden adds: "I also think that publishers are catching on.  There are some great books out there for children and teens that are not picture books, and not graphic novels, but that do intersperse text and images for a reading experience that is not dissimilar to reading graphic novels.  I'm thinking of the excellent The Absolutely True Diaries of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexie and Ellen Forney, or The Invention of Hugo Caberet, by Brian Selzick. 

 Not strictly comics... but close enough for most kids.

"These books could function as great stepping stones for students who are comfortable with graphic novels, and gaining comfort with traditional books.

"Which is not to say that there is nothing of value in the experience of reading comics and manga themselves--far from it.  As you know, there are so many wonderful graphic titles out there on every subject, with beautiful artwork and stunning writing.  It's a genre that deserves to be taken seriously, and I do think that's happening, more and more all the time.  When the library chose Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis last year as the title for its city-wide 'Seattle Reads' program, I think a lot of people who were previously unfamiliar with the format came to realize just how powerful graphic novels can be."

They're all about the indie creators at Seattle Public Library!

What would you consider your biggest success story with using graphic novels in your library/teen program?

Hayden: "Well, I'm planning a big comics festival in January--hopefully that will be my biggest success story! 

"I think that system-wide, we've really seen how comics, manga, and anime draw teens into the library.  Our Summer Reading Program brochure this year had manga-like characters on the front, and from what I could tell it was picked up by more teens than any of our previous brochures."

Jennifer: "It's not confined to a single incident, it's an overall way of using them. First off, I suggest them DAILY to parents and educators as a way to get kids to read more. Whether the kid has learning disabilities, is just a reluctant reader, or simply thinks there is nothing in the world worth reading. Many adults involved with teens are hesitant at first to get a comic book because they want their students or children reading classics. However, they themselves are often not reading classics either.

"I always tell these folks that it doesn't matter what they read, but rather for how long they are reading. Studies show that people need to read for a certain amount of time regardless of the subject matter. I encourage them to try and bring some comics home and see what happens.

 A step in the right direction...

"I know that many kids and teenagers get hooked on the exciting storylines and visual storytelling, and they'll read graphic novels or manga when they would never pick up a book otherwise. I bring home tons of stuff for my own eleven-year-old reluctant reader.

"I think that graphic novels as a form have become so sophisticated and interesting that with a little guidance and encouragement from a professional librarian, more and more adults are realizing their value. And on the other hand I know tons of families like my own where everyone reads comics and graphic novels. Parents and kids are checking out different stuff across all genres. Graphic novels cover all kinds of topics, just like regular books. And we are adding them to most of our 'Teen Reads' lists along with the regular fiction and nonfiction books. Check those out here.

"I just remembered one cool incident. One of my 'library groupie' teens was in a World History class, studying Africa. I gave her Deogratias, A Tale of Rwanda.

Jennifer's pick for graphic-novel literacy achievement.

"This is probably one of the single most disturbing and well-done graphic novels I have ever read. It is so important because it makes the chaos and horror of Rwanda accessible, like Maus did for the World War II Holocaust. It tells a personal, tragic tale of what one individual experienced but it illuminates the whole unbelievable disgusting mess.

I worry my students talk this way about me...

"This is very important because teens are so bombarded -- really, we all are -- by constant pulls to our focus, so that it is very hard to feel deeply the tragedies of the world outside our borders. This graphic novel does it better and more succinctly than many things I have read.

"Anyway, the student read it and was wowed as well, and she brought it to her teacher who was ALSO wowed and allowed her to use it for her class project. Now, this girl reads constantly and is very politically aware, so she was not a reluctant reader swayed by the fast story and intense images. She was a discerning reader interacting with another type of reading, and finding value in it. I can't say it made her a comics reader, but she is more open to them now as 'serious' literature, and so is her teacher."

...And what was your biggest disappointment?

Jennifer: "Augh. Just in general, that many adults don't understand the value of these comics for teens. Really, though, it's often simply about educating them, and reminding them that their teen who's now on his or her tenth manga series might be reading a lot more that way than they would be otherwise."

Hayden: "I can't say I've ever really been disappointed when using comics in a program.  I think that in the library, our biggest problem is marketing-- letting the comics and manga communities know that we do have these great collections, and that we show free anime movies, etc."

What's one thing publishers could be doing to help you that they're not doing at the moment?

Jennifer: "I don't have any suggestions on this."

Hayden: "I've been surprised on several fronts recently by how much the publishers actually do seem to be responding to demand from audiences beyond the traditional comics audience (which I think is generally stereotyped as youngish white males).  For instance, the new Minx line from DC targeted at teen girls is generally excellent; two of my favorite titles from that series, As Good As Lily and The Re-gifters, both have female teen Korean American protagonists. 

Librarians love Minx.

"I hope they keep that series going, and hopefully draft some more women comics artists and writers to contribute. I bet Ellen Forney could write a fantastic one.

"I'm always looking for more graphic novels (and books, for that matter) about GLBTQ teens, African American teens, Latino teens, etc.  I would love it if there were dozens of comics about these groups that weren't 'problem' books about the difficulties of being a member of a minority (though there is certainly a place for those kinds of books), but instead just fun books where being gay, or black, or Latino, or whatever, was simply a fact, rather than a circumstance to be overcome. Whether they were superhero, realistic, science fiction, or just about any other genre of graphic novels, they would be most welcome.  As I say, I think the Minx line is a step in the right direction."

***

So there you have it. Thanks again to Jennifer and Hayden for their time and their thoughts. I should add that Hayden's event at the end of January will involve a lot of local talent -- Seattle's a great comics town; we have Fantagraphics based here, after all -- and I'll be talking more about it in this space as we get closer to it. Those of you that are here should check it out.

Those of you that are not in Seattle should look into what's happening at your local library, as well -- because I'm betting there probably is more going on there, comics-wise, than you think.

See you next week.

  • Posted on October 19, 2007 @ 07:07 PM

24 Comments

I don't know about other people, but my introduction to comics was mostly through trades. I have never thought of comics as anything but books. How I view them, treat them and buy them is coloured by this. I suspect that it is part of the reason I have a very low tolerance for adds in comics. For me, trades and the 'collected formats' that most titles seem to be written for are infinitely preferable to monthly copies.

Following on this, I am curious what these libraries are buying. When they talk about titles like 'The Re-gifters', are monthly floppies being bought for the shelves, or are these exclusively trade and hardcover format? Is there a market for floppies outside of the comic shops?

Awesome.

I wish someone would tell the libraries around here that graphic novels are good. I've worked at a few of 'em, and I tell ya... they don't get it. Bah.

"When they talk about titles like ‘The Re-gifters’, are monthly floppies being bought for the shelves, or are these exclusively trade and hardcover format?"

I would say it's almost definitely trade and hardcover format for 2 reasons:

1. I don't think floppies could survive circulation.
2. I read comics almost exclusively from the library and I've never seen floppies available.

My library system does have Batman: The Killing Joke, though. So maybe they do at least get prestige format stuff.

And thanks for the read, Greg.

As usual, you put us all to shame, Greg, with these posts. It's very cool to see you pursuing this stuff.

When I taught high school, I did a semester on comics in general and then made the kids read Watchmen. Of course, I got all kinds of flak from the other teachers who hadn't actually ever read a comic book, but my boss gave me the okay. The kids resisted for a while (because they were punks), but as they got into it, they really started to enjoy it. These were really low-income kids from the ghetto, and they rarely read anything. I have no idea if reading comics led them to other stuff, but I know they were interested in Watchmen. Schools, in conjunction with libraries, should really understand this and make a bigger effort with some of these books. It's nice that they're so stuck in the past!

Keep up the good work, sir.

Great article, Greg. I don't really have much to contribute other than to say that I really enjoyed reading it.

Man, I wish I had a big city library here!

My library has some great stuff, but the comics sections have maybe a few hundred books total (including children's and strips.) It seems to depend on donations, so lots of them don't have multiple copies, and series are incomplete. Also their filing is terrible: some are in Young Adult, some in Juvenile, some non-fiction, and some on the shelves with the regular fiction. (This even happens with books in the same series!)

There has been more new stuff lately, though. I think they've started to actually purchase graphic novels!

Over the last few years, the Fargo Public Library has gotten a nice little collection of graphic novels and comic strip collections, which has been great to see. They can't compare with actual cities, of course, but for Fargo it's impressive.

The Tacoma Public Library could definitely learn a lesson from its neighbor to the north. The selection of available comics titles (and the condition of what is available) is just plain pathetic. Great article, Greg!

My local library (Columbus) has a truly incredible, huge, and diverse collection of comics and graphic novels, thank god. I've been exposed to so much great stuff and get to read all of the classics for free.

One thing that I see as a bit of disrespect to the medium is that nearly all comics in the system, regardless of content, are catalogued in the "Teen" section. Not only is this a bit disrespectful to the diversity, artistry, and complexity of the shining examples of the medium (few as they might be), but it also creates some issues with age appropriateness. I've checked out the collection of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen where Hyde rapes the invisible man on panel and was shocked to see the Teen sticker on the binding!

I find it more than a little odd that "[t]hey are charged to the non-fiction budget for whichever collection (adult/teen/children’s) they are being purchased for."

Kind of weird budgeting, given that the vast majority of graphic novels (from whatever country, genre, or publisher) are fiction.

I suspect that the weird budgeting is another odd legacy thing. My guess is that for a long time, the only things being bought were the odd collections of newspaper strips. So, it made as much sense to take it out of the same budget other newspaper stuff was taken out of (nonfiction). Then some others were added, but not enough that it was worth changing the paperwork. I also suspect that it changes from paper to paper.

Hayden is a friend of mine, and I know that she's a big comics fan (even before she started dating a cartoonist, she had a bookshelf full of graphic novels of all kinds), so it's really exciting to know that we have such a good advocate for the medium in an influential position.

Seattle's selection is excellent. And they don't wait to buy books if they know a good one is coming. I picked up Sarah Varon's latest on the day it was released at the library without having to put in a request.

I keep meaning to ask Hayden who decides whether a graphic novel goes in the Teen section or the Non-Fiction (741.5) section. I've seen stuff that could potentially be deemed "inappropriate" for young adults (Blankets) in the Teen section and all-ages stuff like Bone in the Non-Fiction section. It's interesting to hear that both books were purchased out of the same budget.

Part of it is just a question of whether the librarians themselves are into comics. Fargo, as Anthony mentioned, has a decent collection and they had two YA librarians who were enthusiastic about the stuff. Even more encouraging, the two of them did a workshop on graphic novels at last year's state library conference and it was packed. One has recently moved on, so it could be interesting to see if purchasing changes.

Most libraries only buy trades. A few do subscribe to floppies just like they do to magazines. I think Puma's library does that, for example.

I subscribe to a 'comics in libraries' listserv. For librarians. Most of the discussions are manga and anime. That's just where the demand is. Interestingly, when the librarians talk about personal favorites, it's frequently American stuff. But in terms of what circulates, it's all Japanese. A generation thing, I expect.

One thing that hurts DC and Marvel in the library market is that their trades tend to be pretty low quality. They fall apart after just a few circulations. We had to give up on Showcase editions for that reason. Libraries with lots of money will buy hardcover editions to get around that, but that cuts deeply enough into your budget that it's more common to just give up and buy from some other publisher.

Publishers Weekly has a free online newsletter that's comics-only and a good source of what's happening in the library/bookstore market. If nothing else, it tells you how they decide what to buy.

There is growing demand for nonfiction material. People are regularly posting queries to the listserv about books regarding particular wars or other major events. Social studies teachers will ask them whether such books exist because they want to use them as part of their lesson plans if so.

Manga is hugely popular at the middle school I teach in. In addition to that we have some Bone volumes and Simpsons comics that Scholastic sells. I also saw one of my students reading some classic Spider-Man stories in a collection from our library.

This week I was thrilled to find a copy of American Born Chinese, which is something I've wanted to read, and grabbed it before they put it out for circulation!

I'm a social studies teacher and part of the giant pack of teacher resources that came with our textbooks is a book of comics to teach certain lessons. We are learning about Japan now and the whole manga/video game thing at least gives them something to relate to.

Personally I'm just happy to see these kids reading. Some of these students might not pick up a book otherwise. I also find that the Halo novels, based on the popular game, are something all the kids want to read.

The worst case I've seen of classifying all graphic novels together was at my local library system's twice-annual book sale. Until recently, they stuck all the graphic novels in with the childrens' books...including Sin City. (Fortunately I was at the sale early and bought them myself, so potential trouble was averted, and they've since added a separate graphic novel section.)

There's a popular library webcomic called Unshelved. CBR just did an interview with them and they show up at a lot of the cons, like SDCC and Emerald City. But mostly go to library conferences.

The standard characters are all frontline staff. People that readers from the general public can recognize, job-wise. A couple years ago, due to popular demand, they did an arc that used a cataloger. The plot device was finding a copy of Preacher in the kid's section and needing to reclassify it.

Actually, Greg, have you had them come in and talk to your students? They're in Seattle. The writer is a teen librarian and the artist has an unrelated job in high tech. They're pretty fun people. I've met them a couple times.

The two local libraries where I do my browsing have been crucial to introducing me to a few new works that I wouldn't have known otherwise - I admit it, I had tuned out of comics because of disinterest in what was being produced and the cost of them - but books like American Born Chinese and Garage Band and The Plain Janes were sitting there in the teen sections, looking enticing and ready to reintroduce me to a world I had abandoned. I'm so glad they were there - in my dayjob I'm a newspaper editor and I've made it my business to specifically cover graphic novels through review work in order to up the library's support of them and, hopefully, direct some traffic to the local bookstore selling them.

From what I have see over the past almost year, graphic novels offer some of the better reading out there for high school age and have definitely realized the potential of the comic book storytelling form in an accessible, populist format. Makes me happy!

Unfortunately, as has been mentioned in this thread, there are some cases where things are being stuck in the YA section because they are graphic novels with no individual attention paid to the actual content - which means, some inappropriate books have slipped through. Hopefully, that will get finessed with time.

I'm late to see this article so this may slip into the ether...but i'm suprised no one mention the, what my library sees, as the biggest problems with trades.
--edit, my fault, Kristen mentioned this in comment 14 --

Trades just fall apart after a few weeks. It's really hard to see the value in something that may only last a month, at best.

(theres a theft problem too, but that's no bigger than the DVD theft problem so I can't single that out)

To second Josh's comment (which, as he notes, was already alluded to earlier):

My wife is a librarian and is in charge of her collection, and the single biggest problem she has with trades and graphic novels is the poor quality of the binding. She tries to get hardcovers whenever possible, and the book company will put a sort of plastic lacquer on softcovers, but the pages fall out of the cover very quickly.

It's very unfortunate -- TPBs and graphic novels circulate VERY well in her library, but the quality issue is a serious stumbling block to increasing the number of titles available.

There is a theft problem, but it's really not too severe, certainly not worse than the rest of the collection.

[...] Friday at the Librarians’ Roundtable from Comics Should Be Good! [...]

>>I would say it’s almost definitely trade and hardcover format for 2 reasons:

1. I don’t think floppies could survive circulation.
2. I read comics almost exclusively from the library and I’ve never seen floppies available.

I recently got caught up in manga graphic novels and i LOVE them im working on my second series ( HotGimmick). after reading a book we're supposed to go to our english teacher and talk to him about the book and then he'll give us a question about it and we must use supported opinion. i showed him the Manga and he just laughed saying that wasnt a book, but he let it slide giving me a question that is actaully quite hard. "Prove to me that teachers should consider Comics as books of literature" He believes that these comics are just like watching tv b.c there are so many pictures and less words. If i can give good enough answers and reasons he will let my classmate and I use these books for our supported opinions. problem is, in a way he is right. the pictures just fill in the words that arent there. HELPP!

[...] Two of my favorite librarians, the awesome Hayden Bass and Jennifer Bisson, are putting on a series of really cool events throughout January here in the Seattle area. And I’d be saying that even if I wasn’t part of the proceedings. [...]

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