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	<title>Comments on: Comics You Should Own - Grendel #1-12</title>
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	<description>Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good!</description>
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		<title>By: Comics Should Be Good! &#187; Comics You Should Own Archive</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-377434</link>
		<dc:creator>Comics Should Be Good! &#187; Comics You Should Own Archive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 21:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-377434</guid>
		<description>[...] Grendel #1-12 by Matt Wagner, Arnold and Jacob Pander, and Jay Geldhof.Â  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Grendel #1-12 by Matt Wagner, Arnold and Jacob Pander, and Jay Geldhof.Â  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: earl</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-271725</link>
		<dc:creator>earl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 04:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-271725</guid>
		<description>I was a huge fan of Matt Wagner&#039;s Mage and Grendel in the 80s.   I re-read Devil&#039;s Legacy for the first time since it was originally published.   The reading was enjoyable but the flaws of the work were much more present to me now than as a teenager.   It is still worth checking out.

The book is definitely an artifact of the 80s.  The Pander Brothers artwork was really different for the time.   Their style reminds me of Patrick Nagel and the clothes are pretty new wave with the big suits.  One 80s thing that cracked me up was the reference to Phil Donahue.

The later God and the Devil storyline I remember being the best one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a huge fan of Matt Wagner's Mage and Grendel in the 80s.   I re-read Devil's Legacy for the first time since it was originally published.   The reading was enjoyable but the flaws of the work were much more present to me now than as a teenager.   It is still worth checking out.</p>
<p>The book is definitely an artifact of the 80s.  The Pander Brothers artwork was really different for the time.   Their style reminds me of Patrick Nagel and the clothes are pretty new wave with the big suits.  One 80s thing that cracked me up was the reference to Phil Donahue.</p>
<p>The later God and the Devil storyline I remember being the best one.</p>
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		<title>By: DanCJ</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-262245</link>
		<dc:creator>DanCJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 12:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-262245</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;So I see Grendel as an interesting mistake, a â€œsecond novelâ€ journeyman work that shows some of the tropes Wagner would develop more effectively in his later work. YMMV.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Did you read the rest of Grendel?  The really good stuff kicks in somewhere around issue 20 IIRC, so don&#039;t write it of on the strength of this storyline.

&lt;blockquote&gt;(And whatever became of the Pander Brothers, anyway?)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
They did a vertigo mini a few years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So I see Grendel as an interesting mistake, a â€œsecond novelâ€ journeyman work that shows some of the tropes Wagner would develop more effectively in his later work. YMMV.</p></blockquote>
<p>Did you read the rest of Grendel?  The really good stuff kicks in somewhere around issue 20 IIRC, so don't write it of on the strength of this storyline.</p>
<blockquote><p>(And whatever became of the Pander Brothers, anyway?)</p></blockquote>
<p>They did a vertigo mini a few years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug M.</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-260289</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-260289</guid>
		<description>Coming late to this, but... this arc didn&#039;t work for me.

Why not?

1)  Christine is never really developed as a character.  Her motivation for picking up the mask is at once depressing and hackneyed; beyond that, we never really get much feel for this woman.

In fact, I&#039;d say Christine falls between two stools: she&#039;s just developed enough that the stuff that happens to her is depressing, but not enough that we really end up interested or caring.

2)  This is really a horror story rather than an action comic.  Which is fine, except that it looks like an action comic.  You think the Pander Brothers art fits the story; I disagree.  I found the kinetic, &quot;cartoony&quot; art distracting, and not consistent with the basically unpleasant and nihlistic storyline:  child is killed, mother becomes violent and kills various people, then is killed herself.

3)  The conflict with Argent didn&#039;t make much sense.

It&#039;s interesting to put this book next to Mage, Volume One.  Mage was a wild romp, with each issue easily read in a few minutes but rewarding repeated examination.  I think young Wagner very deliberately stepped away from the crazy pace of Mage to do a slower, more psychological, more deliberate story... but I don&#039;t think he quite had the chops to pull it off.

Like Christine, Kevin Matchstick didn&#039;t have much personality.  (He&#039;s afraid of heights, and... um, that&#039;s it.)  But with Kevin, that worked, since the whole point was that he was an Everyman, unexpectedly called to heroism.  For Grendel to work as a tragedy, we&#039;d have to care about Christine.  And we don&#039;t.  Which makes it not tragedy, but at best Grand Guignol, and at worst... well, a mess.

So I see Grendel as an interesting mistake, a &quot;second novel&quot; journeyman work that shows some of the tropes Wagner would develop more effectively in his later work.  YMMV.

(And whatever became of the Pander Brothers, anyway?)


Doug M.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming late to this, but... this arc didn't work for me.</p>
<p>Why not?</p>
<p>1)  Christine is never really developed as a character.  Her motivation for picking up the mask is at once depressing and hackneyed; beyond that, we never really get much feel for this woman.</p>
<p>In fact, I'd say Christine falls between two stools: she's just developed enough that the stuff that happens to her is depressing, but not enough that we really end up interested or caring.</p>
<p>2)  This is really a horror story rather than an action comic.  Which is fine, except that it looks like an action comic.  You think the Pander Brothers art fits the story; I disagree.  I found the kinetic, "cartoony" art distracting, and not consistent with the basically unpleasant and nihlistic storyline:  child is killed, mother becomes violent and kills various people, then is killed herself.</p>
<p>3)  The conflict with Argent didn't make much sense.</p>
<p>It's interesting to put this book next to Mage, Volume One.  Mage was a wild romp, with each issue easily read in a few minutes but rewarding repeated examination.  I think young Wagner very deliberately stepped away from the crazy pace of Mage to do a slower, more psychological, more deliberate story... but I don't think he quite had the chops to pull it off.</p>
<p>Like Christine, Kevin Matchstick didn't have much personality.  (He's afraid of heights, and... um, that's it.)  But with Kevin, that worked, since the whole point was that he was an Everyman, unexpectedly called to heroism.  For Grendel to work as a tragedy, we'd have to care about Christine.  And we don't.  Which makes it not tragedy, but at best Grand Guignol, and at worst... well, a mess.</p>
<p>So I see Grendel as an interesting mistake, a "second novel" journeyman work that shows some of the tropes Wagner would develop more effectively in his later work.  YMMV.</p>
<p>(And whatever became of the Pander Brothers, anyway?)</p>
<p>Doug M.</p>
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		<title>By: DanCJ</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-257968</link>
		<dc:creator>DanCJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 10:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-257968</guid>
		<description>To me these twelve issues where the issues I had to read before I got to the good stuff.  It was passable.  The Devil Inside was much better, but it really started getting good for me with the issues that have been reprinted as Grendel Classics/Devil Tales - and then the Orion Assante story, the Tim Sale one that followed and War Child were all excellent.

Also the Pander Brothers&#039; art is really ugly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me these twelve issues where the issues I had to read before I got to the good stuff.  It was passable.  The Devil Inside was much better, but it really started getting good for me with the issues that have been reprinted as Grendel Classics/Devil Tales - and then the Orion Assante story, the Tim Sale one that followed and War Child were all excellent.</p>
<p>Also the Pander Brothers' art is really ugly!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Burgas</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-257393</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Burgas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 00:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-257393</guid>
		<description>Jeff - I DID mention that he was bored, earlier, but you&#039;re right, maybe &quot;lust for power&quot; is a bit strong.  I still think it stems from his boredom, but turned into something else.  He was the best at everything, and became bored, so he needed to prove that he was the best criminal, as well.  The boredom fed into a desire for power - again, &quot;lust&quot; might be a too strong word for it, but I think Hunter&#039;s desire for control is certainly real.

The reason I don&#039;t include &quot;Devil by the Deed&quot; is because, despite the stunning art by Wagner, it&#039;s really a summary of the Archives.  It&#039;s good reading, and if you&#039;re interested in Grendel at all, probably essential, but it still doesn&#039;t rise to the level of the ongoing.  Wagner got a lot better in the brief time between Mage and this series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff - I DID mention that he was bored, earlier, but you're right, maybe "lust for power" is a bit strong.  I still think it stems from his boredom, but turned into something else.  He was the best at everything, and became bored, so he needed to prove that he was the best criminal, as well.  The boredom fed into a desire for power - again, "lust" might be a too strong word for it, but I think Hunter's desire for control is certainly real.</p>
<p>The reason I don't include "Devil by the Deed" is because, despite the stunning art by Wagner, it's really a summary of the Archives.  It's good reading, and if you're interested in Grendel at all, probably essential, but it still doesn't rise to the level of the ongoing.  Wagner got a lot better in the brief time between Mage and this series.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff R.</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-257317</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-257317</guid>
		<description>Nice.  Although I have to dispute almost everything you said about Hunter Rose, pretty much.  (He became Grendel out of boredom, mostly, (lost) love second, and not particularly out of lust for power at all.  And while the stories in the Archive indeed aren&#039;t very good, _Devil by the Deed_ (originally in backups in _Mage_, then in several different collected editions, most recently a black-white-and-red butchery of the original full-color art) was excellent...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice.  Although I have to dispute almost everything you said about Hunter Rose, pretty much.  (He became Grendel out of boredom, mostly, (lost) love second, and not particularly out of lust for power at all.  And while the stories in the Archive indeed aren't very good, _Devil by the Deed_ (originally in backups in _Mage_, then in several different collected editions, most recently a black-white-and-red butchery of the original full-color art) was excellent...</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Burgas</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-257250</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Burgas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-257250</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s called Devil&#039;s Legacy, Thomas.  Wagner painted the cover, which shows Christine kneeling wearing the costume.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's called Devil's Legacy, Thomas.  Wagner painted the cover, which shows Christine kneeling wearing the costume.</p>
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		<title>By: thomas</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-257241</link>
		<dc:creator>thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-257241</guid>
		<description>What is the name of the TPB that collects the 12 issues mentioned?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the name of the TPB that collects the 12 issues mentioned?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Fitzpatrick</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-257151</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Fitzpatrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 21:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-257151</guid>
		<description>Next to MAGE trilogy, GRENDEL remains a close second of my favorites of all Matt Wagner&#039;s creations.

Be sure to check out GRENDEL: BEHOLD THE DEVIL coming out this month from Dark Horse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Next to MAGE trilogy, GRENDEL remains a close second of my favorites of all Matt Wagner's creations.</p>
<p>Be sure to check out GRENDEL: BEHOLD THE DEVIL coming out this month from Dark Horse.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Simpson</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-257076</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Simpson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 20:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-257076</guid>
		<description>Nice review Greg.

I&#039;ve got all the issues and have been thinking of re-reading the whole series for some time.I&#039;ve not read it for years!

After reading this, and with the new mini-series due later this month, I think I&#039;ll have to start very soon.

If anybody hasn&#039;t read Grendel, I would certainly recommend it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice review Greg.</p>
<p>I've got all the issues and have been thinking of re-reading the whole series for some time.I've not read it for years!</p>
<p>After reading this, and with the new mini-series due later this month, I think I'll have to start very soon.</p>
<p>If anybody hasn't read Grendel, I would certainly recommend it.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Collins</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-257075</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 20:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-257075</guid>
		<description>This was a great Grendel comic, and the only Grendel story I ever really got into. Believe it or not, I was 12 or 13 when I first read it, picking up most of the issues out of a back issue bin for about $1 a piece. I still have them and recently ordered the trade, feeling nostalgic and wanting to finally read the complete story (I never got around to buying issues #1, 5, 8, and 12).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was a great Grendel comic, and the only Grendel story I ever really got into. Believe it or not, I was 12 or 13 when I first read it, picking up most of the issues out of a back issue bin for about $1 a piece. I still have them and recently ordered the trade, feeling nostalgic and wanting to finally read the complete story (I never got around to buying issues #1, 5, 8, and 12).</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-257031</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 20:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-257031</guid>
		<description>So how soon until you get to Grendel: War Child?  Easily my favorite Wagner/Grendel story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So how soon until you get to Grendel: War Child?  Easily my favorite Wagner/Grendel story.</p>
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		<title>By: jazzbo</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-256999</link>
		<dc:creator>jazzbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 19:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-256999</guid>
		<description>The original Batman/Grendel mini got me into Grendel and Matt Wagner, and I&#039;ve been in love ever since. Grendel is one of the top five series of all time in my opinion. I can&#039;t wait for the new mini with Wagner doing art and writing once again. 

Great job on the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The original Batman/Grendel mini got me into Grendel and Matt Wagner, and I've been in love ever since. Grendel is one of the top five series of all time in my opinion. I can't wait for the new mini with Wagner doing art and writing once again. </p>
<p>Great job on the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Elijah</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/comment-page-1/#comment-256968</link>
		<dc:creator>Elijah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 19:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/11/05/comics-you-should-own-grendel-1-12/#comment-256968</guid>
		<description>Wow. I know this is missing the point... but just seeing the Comico logo made me ridiculously nostalgic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. I know this is missing the point... but just seeing the Comico logo made me ridiculously nostalgic.</p>
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