Still, there are plenty of embarrassingly pedantic comments here for me to giggle at. Thanks!

His characters are not the usual archetypes, his plots are not the standard style, and his color palette is not the common bright fare.

His publishing schedule isn't even regular.

I thought it was pretty clear that when Greg said "real", he meant it in a colloquial sense. Like the pick-up game at the park. While technically, all those people are playing basketball, they're not "real" basketball players.

Yes and no; most of the stuff that's popular here is also popular in Japan (partially because popularity here is helped out by crossover with anime fandom, and series that aren't popular there are less likely to get anime in the first place). But there's certainly stuff that's popular in Japan that hasn't made much of a splash here, and there are entire areas of manga that haven't made it to the US at all (salaryman manga, for example). (The US also trails behind Japanese trends, so Naruto is doing better here than there at the moment, for example.)

Anime News Network just released the top 10 collected volumes in Japan for the week of December 4-10, so let's look at that for an example. The top four are all Shonen Jump titles (One Piece, Bleach, D. Gray-Man and Gintama); the first two are definitely popular in the US, while the other two have some following but less so (and their anime adaptations haven't been released here). #5, Pluto, is a spinoff of Tetsuwan Atom (Astro Boy), which gives it more cachet there than here.

#6 is Prince of Tennis, which has a definite US following. #7 is Vagabond, which has a US release and seems to be well thought of but not that well-known. #8, REAL, is by the same creator and isn't licensed in the US. Both are by the creator of a well-known series (Slam Dunk) that's kind of struggled so far in the US, so again there's a name-recognition factor that the US doesn't have as much of. #9, Steel Ball Run, is also a spinoff of a series that only has a cult following in the US (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure). #10, Kaicho wa Maid-Sama, I've never heard of until today.

This isn't a particularly scientific examination, partially because being a single week's sales skews it toward titles that came out that week rather than measuring popularity across the board--last week's list didn't have any SJ titles, and Vagabond, REAL, and Pluto were #1-3. What it does suggest is that the biggest titles are more likely to be big in both countries--much like a list of top American films in Japan would probably be primarily blockbusters--but that associations such as name recognition and connection to established titles plays a role in Japan that it can't in the US. However, there's likely to be a much bigger differences with mid-level titles.

Or to put it more simply, much of the stuff that's most popular and visible in the US is also popular and visible in Japan, but there's a much wider range of material that's popular in Japan that isn't so much in the US. Certainly the range of titles in Japan's top ten is much wider than in the US, enough that one style can't fairly be called dominant. (Here's the link to the Nov. 27-Dec. 3 top ten list, which is less skewed to SJ titles:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-12-05/japanese-comic-ranking-november-27-december-3

Click through to the descriptions of each title and you'll see what I mean.)

That’s like saying Runaways isn’t a regular superhero comic because it doesn’t ape Kirby.

I probably shouldn't pour fuel on the fire, but this statement, or variations thereof, is a lot more true of the American comics landscape than the original analogy is for the Japanese one.

The real difference when Western fogeys like myself see when we encounter manga is that we are so acclimated to one-format-one-genre dominating the comics industry that it's a bit startling to realize that manga really is an actual book publishing industry across all genres, much more comparable to U.S. prose paperbacks than U.S. comics. The stuff that's most successful here probably doesn't have a lot to do with what's big in Japan, any more than the American success of, say, Danielle Steel or John Grisham is reflected in our comics industry. The more I see of the stuff the more convinced I become that, if anything, Warren Ellis was understating the case about our side of the pond when he made the 'nurse novels' comment.

This is Greg H. having a grouchy morning, by the way, not Mr. Burgas, so don't yell at HIM.

Anything not in that style can therefore be fairly labelled as "not regular".

What you describe are definitely the most popular types of manga, just like Big 2 superheroes are the most popular types of American comics. But that doesn’t mean that say Daniel Clowes is not a “real” or “regular” American comic.

not to discount your point about aesthetics, T., but i don't think it would be completely inaccurate to say that something like Fun Home is not a "regular" American comic, not just because of its style but also because of its publication format (original graphic novel--never serialized in floppies--published by "real" publishing company).

to some degree, couldn't the analogy be applied to gekira such as the work of Taniguchi and Tatsumi? a lot of their stuff isn't serialized either, and general eschew a lot of the visual conventions of just about every other manga category.

Actually, I’d say it’s more like saying that Runaways isn’t a regular superhero book because it isn’t gratuitously violent or sexual. Which is true.

That's a good analogy, but I also think mine is appropriate since Greg was talking about aesthetics too.

And, from what I’ve seen, the big-eye/robot books tend to be more common than manga done in other styles.

I was going to leave this alone since Greg said he was just joking, but I'll respond on the topic again since you brought it up.

What you describe are definitely the most popular types of manga, just like Big 2 superheroes are the most popular types of American comics. But that doesn't mean that say Daniel Clowes is not a "real" or "regular" American comic.

There are several categories of manga, just like there are several categories of American comics. What Greg is probably thinking of is Shonen manga, which is the big eyes, ninjas and robots stuff. It's the equivalent of the superhero genre here. Just like American comics would seem interchangeable with superhero comics to an outsider, the Shonene manga seems to be interchangeable with manga in general to manga outsiders. This book Greg's reviewing seems to fall more into Gekiga manga category. You can find a click here for a very good short article about this. You can click here for a description of manga categories in general.

Way to oversimplify. That’s like saying Runways isn’t a regular superhero comic because it doesn’t ape Kirby.

Actually, I'd say it's more like saying that Runaways isn't a regular superhero book because it isn't gratuitously violent or sexual. Which is true.

That doesn't mean that those other books are more right or authentic, just that they're done in the more common style.

And, from what I've seen, the big-eye/robot books tend to be more common than manga done in other styles.

he's not really as "commercial" as the rank-and-file manga... and i often get the sense that a lot of his work is aimed more towards Europe than Japan (such as Icaro, his collaboration with Moebius).

i tend to group him almost in the same category as someone like Frederic Boilet.

I mean that it’s not what seems to be “regular” manga, so I probably still haven’t experienced the true style. The comic I did read doesn’t feature girls with eyes taking up most of their face, talking animals (it does feature animals, however!), boys who shout all the time and fight giants robots, or lots of motion lines because no one can sit still. But it’s by a well-respected Japanese artist!

Way to oversimplify. That's like saying Runways isn't a regular superhero comic because it doesn't ape Kirby. Manga has a whole range of aesthetic looks. What you're describing is a specific subgenre of manga. What you're describing is a specific subgenre of manga. This book is just as "real" a manga as one of those big-eyes and robots books you are talking about.