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	<title>Comments on: Lorendiac’s Lists: Who Knows Batman is Bruce Wayne?</title>
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	<description>Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good!</description>
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		<title>By: Lai-Lai</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-2/#comment-761014</link>
		<dc:creator>Lai-Lai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 04:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Joker knows. The Joker Suggested he knew in &quot;A Death in the Family&quot; &amp; it was confirmed in &quot;Batman RIP&quot;, &quot;Batman Confidential&quot; &amp; &quot;Batman Cacophony.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Joker knows. The Joker Suggested he knew in &#8220;A Death in the Family&#8221; &amp; it was confirmed in &#8220;Batman RIP&#8221;, &#8220;Batman Confidential&#8221; &amp; &#8220;Batman Cacophony.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: saranga</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-2/#comment-746977</link>
		<dc:creator>saranga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Stephanie Brown def knows that  Bruce was Batman now - i&#039;m sure he revealed his identity to her when she came back from the dead recently.  Sorry I don&#039;t know the issue name or number.

(also apologies if this has already been said)

Excellent work anyhows.  Fancy doing one for Clark Lent too?  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephanie Brown def knows that  Bruce was Batman now &#8211; i&#8217;m sure he revealed his identity to her when she came back from the dead recently.  Sorry I don&#8217;t know the issue name or number.</p>
<p>(also apologies if this has already been said)</p>
<p>Excellent work anyhows.  Fancy doing one for Clark Lent too?  <img src='http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Justin Smitj</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-746411</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Smitj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 06:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Superboy knows he found Tim, by Batman helping him figure it out, which would mean he has to know. I wanna say Robin unmasked for the Titans once, but they didn&#039;t recognize him. At this point though almost all of them call him Tim, so I&#039;d say the YJ group(atleast) know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Superboy knows he found Tim, by Batman helping him figure it out, which would mean he has to know. I wanna say Robin unmasked for the Titans once, but they didn&#8217;t recognize him. At this point though almost all of them call him Tim, so I&#8217;d say the YJ group(atleast) know.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-745156</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In the web-released &quot;History of the DCU,&quot; we see Donna Troy talking with Harbinger&#039;s orb. It runs her (and the reader, obviously) through all kinds of DC history. I believe this was done as a part of the 52 event? Anyway, when it gets to Batman, the orb flat-out says &quot;Opening Bruce Wayne&#039;s personal file...&quot;  I&#039;d say that even if she didn&#039;t know as a Titan, she DEFINITELY knows now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the web-released &#8220;History of the DCU,&#8221; we see Donna Troy talking with Harbinger&#8217;s orb. It runs her (and the reader, obviously) through all kinds of DC history. I believe this was done as a part of the 52 event? Anyway, when it gets to Batman, the orb flat-out says &#8220;Opening Bruce Wayne&#8217;s personal file&#8230;&#8221;  I&#8217;d say that even if she didn&#8217;t know as a Titan, she DEFINITELY knows now.</p>
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		<title>By: what corner of wayne manor is the batcave under</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-674075</link>
		<dc:creator>what corner of wayne manor is the batcave under</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lorendiac</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-660065</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorendiac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 23:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/#comment-660065</guid>
		<description>Pietard -- I&#039;ve read Byrne&#039;s &quot;Man of Steel&quot; mini several times, and I&#039;m positive that the Batman issue did not include Superman saying or thinking anything about having discovered Batman&#039;s secret identity. I think your memory is playing tricks on you (which certainly happens to me on a frequent basis). 

You see, I do remember such a moment from some later story in the Byrne run, after he had already laid the foundations of his Superman Reboot with that &quot;Man of Steel&quot; mini to quickly bring readers up to speed on what sort of changes he was making. The way I remember it from the later story I vaguely remember rereading a few years ago: Superman makes it clear that he knows Batman&#039;s other name is Bruce Wayne, and Batman thinks something like this: &quot;Ouch. So much for all the time I spent inserting this layer of lead shielding into my cowl!&quot; (That&#039;s not word-for-word, but that was the general reaction he had.) 

After doing a little quick searching through Google, I &lt;I&gt;think&lt;/I&gt; I&#039;ve pinned it down. &quot;Adventures of Superman #440.&quot;

According to http://www.supermanhomepage.com/comics/comics-index-lists/comics-slist-intro.php?topic=comics-slist-1988 

the following things happened in that issue:
__________________________

&lt;B&gt;Adventures of Superman #440 (May)&lt;/B&gt;
John Byrne/Jerry Ordway, Jerry Ordway, Dennis Janke
Superman tests another Superman robot with Emil, thinks of his upcoming date; Jerry White visits Jose; doctor tells Jose he won&#039;t walk; in Gotham Batman hands Superman the Scrapbook and says he figured out he&#039;s Clark Kent but hasn&#039;t told Robin - Superman lets Batman know he knows Batman is Bruce Wayne; Luthor uncovers something to blackmail Maggie; Scientists are studying the Supergirl; Superman hands the scrapbook to Ma who confesses it&#039;s hers, finds Wonder Woman (Diana) for their first date.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pietard &#8212; I&#8217;ve read Byrne&#8217;s &#8220;Man of Steel&#8221; mini several times, and I&#8217;m positive that the Batman issue did not include Superman saying or thinking anything about having discovered Batman&#8217;s secret identity. I think your memory is playing tricks on you (which certainly happens to me on a frequent basis). </p>
<p>You see, I do remember such a moment from some later story in the Byrne run, after he had already laid the foundations of his Superman Reboot with that &#8220;Man of Steel&#8221; mini to quickly bring readers up to speed on what sort of changes he was making. The way I remember it from the later story I vaguely remember rereading a few years ago: Superman makes it clear that he knows Batman&#8217;s other name is Bruce Wayne, and Batman thinks something like this: &#8220;Ouch. So much for all the time I spent inserting this layer of lead shielding into my cowl!&#8221; (That&#8217;s not word-for-word, but that was the general reaction he had.) </p>
<p>After doing a little quick searching through Google, I <i>think</i> I&#8217;ve pinned it down. &#8220;Adventures of Superman #440.&#8221;</p>
<p>According to <a href="http://www.supermanhomepage.com/comics/comics-index-lists/comics-slist-intro.php?topic=comics-slist-1988" rel="nofollow">http://www.supermanhomepage.com/comics/comics-index-lists/comics-slist-intro.php?topic=comics-slist-1988</a> </p>
<p>the following things happened in that issue:<br />
__________________________</p>
<p><b>Adventures of Superman #440 (May)</b><br />
John Byrne/Jerry Ordway, Jerry Ordway, Dennis Janke<br />
Superman tests another Superman robot with Emil, thinks of his upcoming date; Jerry White visits Jose; doctor tells Jose he won&#8217;t walk; in Gotham Batman hands Superman the Scrapbook and says he figured out he&#8217;s Clark Kent but hasn&#8217;t told Robin &#8211; Superman lets Batman know he knows Batman is Bruce Wayne; Luthor uncovers something to blackmail Maggie; Scientists are studying the Supergirl; Superman hands the scrapbook to Ma who confesses it&#8217;s hers, finds Wonder Woman (Diana) for their first date.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-660040</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 21:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mark Waid cleverly slipped JLA: Year One back into continuity during the Secret Origins piece in the 52 back-ups - while the league was founded with Batman / Superman / Wonder Woman, they took enough time off in the first year, with Black Canary hanging around, that Year One more or less happened as originally presented.

I still call complete and total b.s. on the Titans not knowing (I recall we had this conversation a long time ago), but I&#039;ll go back and re-read Grayson&#039;s Titans series to make sure because that&#039;d be the most obvious connection.

Oh, wait, Roy Harper CLEARLY knows now (we have to assume a monumental level of stupidity for this not to be the case), as Dick figures out, in his presence, that Waynetech&#039;s equipment is being used by the Outsiders, and therefore they&#039;re being backed by Batman. Roy set up the deal. Roy doesn&#039;t display any reaction to the connection, which is more than enough in my books to solidify it. Trust Winick to screw up background information.

(Unless you make the argument that Deathstroke was funding the operation the entire time in his guise as Batman, and made sure to buy all Waynetech equipment to screw with Dick, which I suppose is possible but almost senselessly convoluted. Again, Winick being Winick, I can&#039;t rule that out as a possibility.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark Waid cleverly slipped JLA: Year One back into continuity during the Secret Origins piece in the 52 back-ups &#8211; while the league was founded with Batman / Superman / Wonder Woman, they took enough time off in the first year, with Black Canary hanging around, that Year One more or less happened as originally presented.</p>
<p>I still call complete and total b.s. on the Titans not knowing (I recall we had this conversation a long time ago), but I&#8217;ll go back and re-read Grayson&#8217;s Titans series to make sure because that&#8217;d be the most obvious connection.</p>
<p>Oh, wait, Roy Harper CLEARLY knows now (we have to assume a monumental level of stupidity for this not to be the case), as Dick figures out, in his presence, that Waynetech&#8217;s equipment is being used by the Outsiders, and therefore they&#8217;re being backed by Batman. Roy set up the deal. Roy doesn&#8217;t display any reaction to the connection, which is more than enough in my books to solidify it. Trust Winick to screw up background information.</p>
<p>(Unless you make the argument that Deathstroke was funding the operation the entire time in his guise as Batman, and made sure to buy all Waynetech equipment to screw with Dick, which I suppose is possible but almost senselessly convoluted. Again, Winick being Winick, I can&#8217;t rule that out as a possibility.)</p>
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		<title>By: Pietard</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-659818</link>
		<dc:creator>Pietard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 01:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You didn&#039;t mention when Superman learned Batman&#039;s identity. It was shown in Man of Steel # 3 in 1986, when they officially met for the first time Post-Crisis, that he already knew Batman&#039;s identity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You didn&#8217;t mention when Superman learned Batman&#8217;s identity. It was shown in Man of Steel # 3 in 1986, when they officially met for the first time Post-Crisis, that he already knew Batman&#8217;s identity.</p>
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		<title>By: Darci</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-659721</link>
		<dc:creator>Darci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 14:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The issue Michael was recalling on Dec 21 was Batman #388 (Jan 2008), &quot;The Resurrection of Ra&#039;s al Ghul, Part Three.&quot;  Besides Tiger Moth and Silken Spider, the third villainess was Dragonfly.  All three date back to Batman #181 (June 1966), &quot;Beware of -- Poison Ivy!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue Michael was recalling on Dec 21 was Batman #388 (Jan 2008), &#8220;The Resurrection of Ra&#8217;s al Ghul, Part Three.&#8221;  Besides Tiger Moth and Silken Spider, the third villainess was Dragonfly.  All three date back to Batman #181 (June 1966), &#8220;Beware of &#8212; Poison Ivy!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Comics Should Be Good! &#187; Lorendiac&#8217;s Lists Archive</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-650365</link>
		<dc:creator>Comics Should Be Good! &#187; Lorendiac&#8217;s Lists Archive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 19:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Character Aliases That Marvel and DC Have Both Used  Who Knows Batman is Bruce Wayne? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Character Aliases That Marvel and DC Have Both Used  Who Knows Batman is Bruce Wayne? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: KMFPL</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-417961</link>
		<dc:creator>KMFPL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 05:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Lorendiac: Great list.  And a great dissection of the end of YEAR ONE.  In fect, it led me to this thought... YEAR ONE started with Bruce being ineffective fighting crime in regular clothes.  He becomes Batman.  But the big conclusion has him back in the exact same outfit he started in (IIRC). I&#039;ll have to give it some thought to figure out what Frank Miller is trying to say with that choice...

On the subject of your list, I&#039;ve been advocating a different theory for years. Namely, I think most everyone in Gotham (and probably on Earth-1) assumes that Bruce Wayne is Batman. OK, there&#039;s a guy with high-tech gear running around Gotham City beating up muggers.

Who could he be?  

Could it be the rich guy who owns the military tech company?  Weren&#039;t his parents killed by muggers?

Why doesn&#039;t anyone do anything about it?  Why don&#039;t YOU do something about O.J. Simpson?  Doesn&#039;t everyone know he killed two people?  

We don&#039;t because that&#039;s not our job.  That&#039;s somebody else&#039;s job.  And &quot;doing something&quot; about Bruce Wayne and Batman is somebody else&#039;s job, too...

And don&#039;t get me started about the two best investigative reporters in Metropolis being unable to see past a pair of glasses.  Super-hypnosis, my foot!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lorendiac: Great list.  And a great dissection of the end of YEAR ONE.  In fect, it led me to this thought&#8230; YEAR ONE started with Bruce being ineffective fighting crime in regular clothes.  He becomes Batman.  But the big conclusion has him back in the exact same outfit he started in (IIRC). I&#8217;ll have to give it some thought to figure out what Frank Miller is trying to say with that choice&#8230;</p>
<p>On the subject of your list, I&#8217;ve been advocating a different theory for years. Namely, I think most everyone in Gotham (and probably on Earth-1) assumes that Bruce Wayne is Batman. OK, there&#8217;s a guy with high-tech gear running around Gotham City beating up muggers.</p>
<p>Who could he be?  </p>
<p>Could it be the rich guy who owns the military tech company?  Weren&#8217;t his parents killed by muggers?</p>
<p>Why doesn&#8217;t anyone do anything about it?  Why don&#8217;t YOU do something about O.J. Simpson?  Doesn&#8217;t everyone know he killed two people?  </p>
<p>We don&#8217;t because that&#8217;s not our job.  That&#8217;s somebody else&#8217;s job.  And &#8220;doing something&#8221; about Bruce Wayne and Batman is somebody else&#8217;s job, too&#8230;</p>
<p>And don&#8217;t get me started about the two best investigative reporters in Metropolis being unable to see past a pair of glasses.  Super-hypnosis, my foot!</p>
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		<title>By: Lorendiac</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-414032</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorendiac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 05:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/#comment-414032</guid>
		<description>Salamurai asked: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Barry Allen didnâ€™t know?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, remember that I&#039;m only talking here about people who definitely knew in stories published after the transition to Post-COIE continuity happened. 

Barry Allen has had very few appearances in any DC stories published Post-COIE (since he died during that Crisis), so offhand I&#039;m not sure if any of those very few appearances (flashbacks and such) have ever &quot;nailed down&quot; the idea that in the revised Post-COIE continuity, Barry had definitely known Batman&#039;s secret ID for awhile, prior to his death. It&#039;s possible that there has been an explicit reference to his having known in the revised continuity; I just don&#039;t remember seeing it. (Of course, I was never a regular buyer of Wally&#039;s &quot;Flash&quot; title, so my knowledge of Post-COIE continuity about the Flash&#039;s is not all that it could be.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Salamurai asked: </p>
<blockquote><p>Barry Allen didnâ€™t know?</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, remember that I&#8217;m only talking here about people who definitely knew in stories published after the transition to Post-COIE continuity happened. </p>
<p>Barry Allen has had very few appearances in any DC stories published Post-COIE (since he died during that Crisis), so offhand I&#8217;m not sure if any of those very few appearances (flashbacks and such) have ever &#8220;nailed down&#8221; the idea that in the revised Post-COIE continuity, Barry had definitely known Batman&#8217;s secret ID for awhile, prior to his death. It&#8217;s possible that there has been an explicit reference to his having known in the revised continuity; I just don&#8217;t remember seeing it. (Of course, I was never a regular buyer of Wally&#8217;s &#8220;Flash&#8221; title, so my knowledge of Post-COIE continuity about the Flash&#8217;s is not all that it could be.)</p>
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		<title>By: Lorendiac</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-414004</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorendiac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 05:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/#comment-414004</guid>
		<description>Mark said:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Jimmy Olsen knew about Bruce back in the 1980s (obviously pre-Crisis). At one point Robin used a machine to mind-wipe Barbara Gordon of remembering his or Batmanâ€™s identity. Letter columns lit up that it was okay for Jimmy to know but not a member of the Batman family.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Almost two years ago now, I actually wrote a lengthy post about that miserable moment in Pre-COIE Bat-continuity, and I even quoted passages from some of those same letters you mention that were reacting to that awful excuse for a story. So I remember the story pretty well, and I have to take exception to your summary of it.

Robin (Dick Grayson in those days) did NOT take it upon himself to mindwipe Babs. The story WAS miserably written, and Dick certainly behaved badly and illogically in it, but he wasn&#039;t quite THAT bad!

A typical mad scientist character did the mindwiping. In the process, he learned all about the secret IDs of Batman and Robin. Then he conveniently got himself killed, but left behind a stack of audiotapes that had Barbara&#039;s old memories dictated onto them. The gimmick was that if she listened to all the tapes, hearing each thing she had previously dictated under the influence of the mad scientist&#039;s techniques would cause all the related memories on each subject to be restored to her consciousness (or words to that effect). Robin helped her play back most of the tapes, but asked her not to mess around with the one that had the secrets of himself and Batman. Why he felt this way was not terribly clear. He did, however, leave the tape with her so she could make her own decision as he left. Then Babs burned that tape of her own free will. Why she felt any need to do this just to oblige Robin&#039;s paranoia was not terribly clear. (Well, except in the sense that I&#039;ve always assumed their clueless and out-of-character behavior was ordered by Editorial Fiat.) 

About three years later, as he was wrapping up his own run on &quot;Batman&quot; and &quot;Detective Comics,&quot; Gerry Conway (who had nothing to do with that abominable story with the audiotapes) apparently saw fit to do a &quot;very quiet retcon&quot; of the details of what Babs knew, and what Bruce and Dick thought she knew or didn&#039;t know, and why the two guys had thought that. 

If you want to see my full discussion of how things developed in those old stories, you can look at the thread I started on our local CBR Batman Forum:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=101626</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark said:</p>
<blockquote><p>Jimmy Olsen knew about Bruce back in the 1980s (obviously pre-Crisis). At one point Robin used a machine to mind-wipe Barbara Gordon of remembering his or Batmanâ€™s identity. Letter columns lit up that it was okay for Jimmy to know but not a member of the Batman family.</p></blockquote>
<p>Almost two years ago now, I actually wrote a lengthy post about that miserable moment in Pre-COIE Bat-continuity, and I even quoted passages from some of those same letters you mention that were reacting to that awful excuse for a story. So I remember the story pretty well, and I have to take exception to your summary of it.</p>
<p>Robin (Dick Grayson in those days) did NOT take it upon himself to mindwipe Babs. The story WAS miserably written, and Dick certainly behaved badly and illogically in it, but he wasn&#8217;t quite THAT bad!</p>
<p>A typical mad scientist character did the mindwiping. In the process, he learned all about the secret IDs of Batman and Robin. Then he conveniently got himself killed, but left behind a stack of audiotapes that had Barbara&#8217;s old memories dictated onto them. The gimmick was that if she listened to all the tapes, hearing each thing she had previously dictated under the influence of the mad scientist&#8217;s techniques would cause all the related memories on each subject to be restored to her consciousness (or words to that effect). Robin helped her play back most of the tapes, but asked her not to mess around with the one that had the secrets of himself and Batman. Why he felt this way was not terribly clear. He did, however, leave the tape with her so she could make her own decision as he left. Then Babs burned that tape of her own free will. Why she felt any need to do this just to oblige Robin&#8217;s paranoia was not terribly clear. (Well, except in the sense that I&#8217;ve always assumed their clueless and out-of-character behavior was ordered by Editorial Fiat.) </p>
<p>About three years later, as he was wrapping up his own run on &#8220;Batman&#8221; and &#8220;Detective Comics,&#8221; Gerry Conway (who had nothing to do with that abominable story with the audiotapes) apparently saw fit to do a &#8220;very quiet retcon&#8221; of the details of what Babs knew, and what Bruce and Dick thought she knew or didn&#8217;t know, and why the two guys had thought that. </p>
<p>If you want to see my full discussion of how things developed in those old stories, you can look at the thread I started on our local CBR Batman Forum:</p>
<p><a href="http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=101626" rel="nofollow">http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=101626</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brian Cronin</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-409125</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Cronin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/#comment-409125</guid>
		<description>Right, Doug, but the specific Zero Hour rumored retcon was that Batman NEVER was a League member. The Post-Crisis version of the JLA was that Batman and Superman just helped out the league, UNTIL Batman joined  at the end of the Detroit League and stayed with JLI (and Superman then joined the League pre-Doomsday).

O&#039;Neil&#039;s alleged retcon would have served to eliminate ANY Justice League service for Batman, including the recent JLI stint (that Batman even references during the story when Jason Todd is killed).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, Doug, but the specific Zero Hour rumored retcon was that Batman NEVER was a League member. The Post-Crisis version of the JLA was that Batman and Superman just helped out the league, UNTIL Batman joined  at the end of the Detroit League and stayed with JLI (and Superman then joined the League pre-Doomsday).</p>
<p>O&#8217;Neil&#8217;s alleged retcon would have served to eliminate ANY Justice League service for Batman, including the recent JLI stint (that Batman even references during the story when Jason Todd is killed).</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Atkinson</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-409069</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Atkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/#comment-409069</guid>
		<description>&quot;Batman was never in the Justice League (since re-retconned by Batman being a â€œpart-time memberâ€)&quot;

Batman and Superman were both retconned out of being full-time founding members of the JLA into guys that just helped them out from time to time, but that actually represents their status in early JLA stories pretty accurately.  A large number of them have Batman and Superman off on other cases, or getting sent off on wild goose chases that don&#039;t have any impact on the plot.  In the first Showcase Presents volume in particular, the number of stories that require their presence for the stories to work as written is fairly small.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Batman was never in the Justice League (since re-retconned by Batman being a â€œpart-time memberâ€)&#8221;</p>
<p>Batman and Superman were both retconned out of being full-time founding members of the JLA into guys that just helped them out from time to time, but that actually represents their status in early JLA stories pretty accurately.  A large number of them have Batman and Superman off on other cases, or getting sent off on wild goose chases that don&#8217;t have any impact on the plot.  In the first Showcase Presents volume in particular, the number of stories that require their presence for the stories to work as written is fairly small.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshy</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-408219</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 05:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/#comment-408219</guid>
		<description>Julie Madison (Bruce&#039;s Golden Age Fiancee) found out in that mini-series published last year. I think Terry Long knows too...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julie Madison (Bruce&#8217;s Golden Age Fiancee) found out in that mini-series published last year. I think Terry Long knows too&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Salamurai</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-408025</link>
		<dc:creator>Salamurai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 02:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/#comment-408025</guid>
		<description>Barry Allen didn&#039;t know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry Allen didn&#8217;t know?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-407522</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/#comment-407522</guid>
		<description>Jimmy Olsen knew about Bruce back in the 1980s (obviously pre-Crisis). At one point Robin used a machine to mind-wipe Barbara Gordon of remembering his or Batman&#039;s identity. Letter columns lit up that it was okay for Jimmy to know but not a member of the Batman family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimmy Olsen knew about Bruce back in the 1980s (obviously pre-Crisis). At one point Robin used a machine to mind-wipe Barbara Gordon of remembering his or Batman&#8217;s identity. Letter columns lit up that it was okay for Jimmy to know but not a member of the Batman family.</p>
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		<title>By: Corey</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-407004</link>
		<dc:creator>Corey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/#comment-407004</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always assumed Gordon knew, but was just too polite to tell Bruce that he knows. Gordon is a detective, after all, and it shouldn&#039;t be too hard to figure out that Bruce=Batman. After all, there can&#039;t be that many other athletic billionaires who hang out with dark-haired teenage boys in Gotham City, can there? (Okay, that came out a little creepier than I intended, but you know what I mean... )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always assumed Gordon knew, but was just too polite to tell Bruce that he knows. Gordon is a detective, after all, and it shouldn&#8217;t be too hard to figure out that Bruce=Batman. After all, there can&#8217;t be that many other athletic billionaires who hang out with dark-haired teenage boys in Gotham City, can there? (Okay, that came out a little creepier than I intended, but you know what I mean&#8230; )</p>
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		<title>By: Mecha-Shiva</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/comment-page-1/#comment-406781</link>
		<dc:creator>Mecha-Shiva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 12:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/#comment-406781</guid>
		<description>Gordon&#039;s definitely doubtful, and there shouldn&#039;t really be debate about it.  Year One reads like he&#039;s pretty sure he knows, but gives the glasses line to give himself plausible deniability.  But there&#039;s a big difference between that kind of knowing and Bruce pulling off his mask for Selina.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon&#8217;s definitely doubtful, and there shouldn&#8217;t really be debate about it.  Year One reads like he&#8217;s pretty sure he knows, but gives the glasses line to give himself plausible deniability.  But there&#8217;s a big difference between that kind of knowing and Bruce pulling off his mask for Selina.</p>
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