Comments on: For The Slow Kids In Class... http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/ Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good! Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:59:31 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Mark http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-698843 Mark Sun, 28 Dec 2008 05:38:49 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-698843 At the time Peter revealed his face, they didn't happen to cut to J. Jonah Jameson watching TV, did they? I would have liked to have seen his expression. I imagine it like some silence, then some nervous tics, then a kind of freakout like Peter Sellers used to inspire in the Chief Inspecter in the Pink Panther movies. At the time Peter revealed his face, they didn't happen to cut to J. Jonah Jameson watching TV, did they? I would have liked to have seen his expression. I imagine it like some silence, then some nervous tics, then a kind of freakout like Peter Sellers used to inspire in the Chief Inspecter in the Pink Panther movies.

]]> By: GQ http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-455731 GQ Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:07:25 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-455731 What gets me is that INEVITABLY there's going to be some character introduced in these books that puports to be all-knowing or super-smart or something and hints that HE KNOWS WHAT REALLY HAPPENED, PETER! which will blow the whole notion out of the water and, as someone said above, will simply serve to high-light the mystical/super-natural element that now serves as the core of the spider-man mythology. What gets me is that INEVITABLY there's going to be some character introduced in these books that puports to be all-knowing or super-smart or something and hints that HE KNOWS WHAT REALLY HAPPENED, PETER! which will blow the whole notion out of the water and, as someone said above, will simply serve to high-light the mystical/super-natural element that now serves as the core of the spider-man mythology.

]]> By: Victor Hugo http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-454169 Victor Hugo Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:08:50 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-454169 This is UNBEARABLY bad, it´s beyond retarded and insulting. This is UNBEARABLY bad, it´s beyond retarded and insulting.

]]> By: HellRazor http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-450617 HellRazor Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:47:01 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-450617 Hey, this isn't CLONE SAGA bad. Oh, no. This is HEROES REBORN bad. Except HEROES REBORN made more sense. Hey, this isn't CLONE SAGA bad. Oh, no.

This is HEROES REBORN bad. Except HEROES REBORN made more sense.

]]> By: pcgamer http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-449874 pcgamer Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:39:54 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-449874 So they didn't break the continuity then, other than the fact that any events previous to BND can't be used as a resource for stories post BND. Isn't that what breaking the continuity means though... e.g. NO ONE knows who spiderman is. - Norman doesn't? fine we'll chalk it down to 'magic' and just forget the past gwen thrown off the bridge thing eh... wait it did happen! but he just doesn#t remember anymore! I get it, except... it can't be used anymore in storylines as history references, because Norman did it to hurt Peter Parker, not specifically spiderman. So the dynamic there changes does it not? pff. Insulting to any reader with a brain thats been following spiderman for the last 20 years, 20 years of changes summarised in 2 pages.... either shows how empty, contentless and pointless following/collecting spiderman stories are or they just don't want to admit what they really did, cancelled and replace pre-bnd spiderman, disguising it as 'character'/'preserving continuity' progression. Spiderman is dead, long live spiderman... I think I'll just stick to collecting Ultimate spiderman... not much difference between the 2 anymore other than 10 years of age possibly, well at least I still get/feel/empathise with the shock/excitement in that of people finding out he's just a kid, i.e. his identity and stuff, why bother reading about it twice/thrice.... again... get to watch character progression in that at least... well until they decide to get Mephisto to revert him back to school after a few years of character progression and make people forget who he is as well. Yay! Might come back to the mainstream universe for the messiah complex stuff, x-men stuff but thats about it. Avengers, and the initiative comic books I find really dull and morally preachy, as if marvel are still trying to get across the idea that all the recent changes were necessary and made sense whether we know it or not, trying to make readers 'think' about it whether registration is right or wrong. That angle is getting quite old and really tiresome... So they didn't break the continuity then, other than the fact that any events previous to BND can't be used as a resource for stories post BND.

Isn't that what breaking the continuity means though...

e.g. NO ONE knows who spiderman is.

- Norman doesn't? fine we'll chalk it down to 'magic' and just forget the past gwen thrown off the bridge thing eh... wait it did happen! but he just doesn#t remember anymore! I get it, except... it can't be used anymore in storylines as history references, because Norman did it to hurt Peter Parker, not specifically spiderman. So the dynamic there changes does it not?

pff. Insulting to any reader with a brain thats been following spiderman for the last 20 years, 20 years of changes summarised in 2 pages.... either shows how empty, contentless and pointless following/collecting spiderman stories are or they just don't want to admit what they really did, cancelled and replace pre-bnd spiderman, disguising it
as 'character'/'preserving continuity' progression.

Spiderman is dead, long live spiderman... I think I'll just stick to collecting Ultimate spiderman... not much difference between the 2 anymore other than 10 years of age possibly, well at least I still get/feel/empathise with the shock/excitement in that of people finding out he's just a kid, i.e. his identity and stuff, why bother reading about it twice/thrice.... again... get to watch character progression in that at least... well until they decide to get Mephisto to revert him back to school after a few years of character progression and make people forget who he is as well. Yay!

Might come back to the mainstream universe for the messiah complex stuff, x-men stuff but thats about it.

Avengers, and the initiative comic books I find really dull and morally preachy, as if marvel are still trying to get across the idea that all the recent changes were necessary and made sense whether we know it or not, trying to make readers 'think' about it whether registration is right or wrong. That angle is getting quite old and really tiresome...

]]> By: Luis Dantas http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-449631 Luis Dantas Wed, 09 Jan 2008 12:06:42 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-449631 I'm afraid that Marvel failed in a most fundamental way with BND. It stopped short of doing a true reboot, when it actually wanted to. It does create all sorts of problems, much as DC had after Crisis when it rebooted some books but not others or Marvel itself tried to "soft-reboot" during and after the Clone Saga. The basic idea of having Peter deal (again) with a life of money bills, Aunt May health issues, struggling bachelor issues (including his love life) and the odd Harry Osborn situation is a sound one, despite being definitely a rethread of tales told. Unfortunately, all of those plot possibilities will now take a back seat to the far flashier inconsistencies and weirdnesses introduced in order to make BND possible. For starters, the secret ID thing. It's awfully contradictory. Recent storylines involved Spider-Man revealing his ID to the New Avengers as part of his role in founding that team, and later to the public at large. More ancient plots (from the 1980s) had him developing an unique bond with Daredevil by trusting each other with their respective IDs. Now we're supposed to believe that somehow none of that happened, which leaves us no choice but to wonder (for years, literally) about what else changed and how. I sorta hope Spider-Man is no longer a New Avenger, but truth is, even if he isn't then there are still too many unanswerable questions in the air about his group role and dynamics. And the general public knowing that it once saw Spider-Man's face but strangely can't recall (or find pictures) of it anymore is killer, because that lends a supernatural occurrence a central role into Spider-Man status quo. That and the weird (despite intentional vagueness) past story with Mary Jane in this new BND continuity make Peter way harder for readers to identify with than he ever was before. Too high a price to pay for just making him a bachelor again. Big mistake, Marvel. I'm afraid that Marvel failed in a most fundamental way with BND.

It stopped short of doing a true reboot, when it actually wanted to. It does create all sorts of problems, much as DC had after Crisis when it rebooted some books but not others or Marvel itself tried to "soft-reboot" during and after the Clone Saga.

The basic idea of having Peter deal (again) with a life of money bills, Aunt May health issues, struggling bachelor issues (including his love life) and the odd Harry Osborn situation is a sound one, despite being definitely a rethread of tales told.

Unfortunately, all of those plot possibilities will now take a back seat to the far flashier inconsistencies and weirdnesses introduced in order to make BND possible.

For starters, the secret ID thing. It's awfully contradictory. Recent storylines involved Spider-Man revealing his ID to the New Avengers as part of his role in founding that team, and later to the public at large. More ancient plots (from the 1980s) had him developing an unique bond with Daredevil by trusting each other with their respective IDs. Now we're supposed to believe that somehow none of that happened, which leaves us no choice but to wonder (for years, literally) about what else changed and how. I sorta hope Spider-Man is no longer a New Avenger, but truth is, even if he isn't then there are still too many unanswerable questions in the air about his group role and dynamics. And the general public knowing that it once saw Spider-Man's face but strangely can't recall (or find pictures) of it anymore is killer, because that lends a supernatural occurrence a central role into Spider-Man status quo.

That and the weird (despite intentional vagueness) past story with Mary Jane in this new BND continuity make Peter way harder for readers to identify with than he ever was before. Too high a price to pay for just making him a bachelor again.

Big mistake, Marvel.

]]> By: Martin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-449592 Martin Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:25:49 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-449592 kreetrapper, you took the words right out of my mouth. I want to see this! Somebody link me! Link me good! kreetrapper, you took the words right out of my mouth. I want to see this! Somebody link me! Link me good!

]]> By: kreetrapper http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-449450 kreetrapper Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:21:40 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-449450 <i>Someone’s already done up a mock Daily Bugle cover with Jameson’s reaction to all memory of Spider-Man’s secret identity being erased</i> Does somebody have a link to this? Someone’s already done up a mock Daily Bugle cover with Jameson’s reaction to all memory of Spider-Man’s secret identity being erased

Does somebody have a link to this?

]]> By: Master Mahan http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-449176 Master Mahan Wed, 09 Jan 2008 08:03:03 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-449176 This is why I don't like crisis stories. It's just such a painful experience watching writers trying to contort characters and plot, just to get everyone in position for the story they *really* want to tell. The worst part is that it's completely unnecessary. If you want things to be like this instead of that, just skip ahead to it. Let it all take place off-screen and hey, we're there. Marvel's done this before, after all. Did they ever explain how Dr. Octopus had suddenly become involved in Spider-Man's origin? Maybe they did and I missed it. It doesn't really affect the rest of the stories. Does this invalidate 20+ years of stories? Of course not. You read them. You can still read them. It's not like they don't bloody exist anymore. If they didn't happen to this version of Spider-Man, well, that's okay. They didn't happen to Ultimate Spider-Man, Marvel Adventures Spider-Man, Movie Spider-Man, Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, etc. So screw One More Day, Countdown, Disassembled, Zero Hour, Onslaught, and a lot more stories I'd rather not get OCD about listing. They're generally turds, so stop trying to polish them up and sell them. Then again, people complained Emerald Twilight was too short. This is why I don't like crisis stories. It's just such a painful experience watching writers trying to contort characters and plot, just to get everyone in position for the story they *really* want to tell. The worst part is that it's completely unnecessary. If you want things to be like this instead of that, just skip ahead to it. Let it all take place off-screen and hey, we're there.

Marvel's done this before, after all. Did they ever explain how Dr. Octopus had suddenly become involved in Spider-Man's origin? Maybe they did and I missed it. It doesn't really affect the rest of the stories.

Does this invalidate 20+ years of stories? Of course not. You read them. You can still read them. It's not like they don't bloody exist anymore. If they didn't happen to this version of Spider-Man, well, that's okay. They didn't happen to Ultimate Spider-Man, Marvel Adventures Spider-Man, Movie Spider-Man, Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, etc.

So screw One More Day, Countdown, Disassembled, Zero Hour, Onslaught, and a lot more stories I'd rather not get OCD about listing. They're generally turds, so stop trying to polish them up and sell them.

Then again, people complained Emerald Twilight was too short.

]]> By: jazzbo http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-448855 jazzbo Wed, 09 Jan 2008 05:39:47 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-448855 I've got to admit, as stupid as the retcon and OMD may be, I like that Marvel released this item that just flat out says what the new status quo is. It's been almost two years since "New Earth" was revealed in Infinite Crisis, but we're still not really sure what has changed, if anything. Or if they have revealed it, it was in Countdown or some other crappy comic a lot of people wouldn't read. Basically I'm saying, no matter what you might think of the situation, at least Marvel is trying to make it easy to know the new status quo. I've got to admit, as stupid as the retcon and OMD may be, I like that Marvel released this item that just flat out says what the new status quo is. It's been almost two years since "New Earth" was revealed in Infinite Crisis, but we're still not really sure what has changed, if anything. Or if they have revealed it, it was in Countdown or some other crappy comic a lot of people wouldn't read. Basically I'm saying, no matter what you might think of the situation, at least Marvel is trying to make it easy to know the new status quo.

]]> By: Sanagi http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-448781 Sanagi Wed, 09 Jan 2008 05:03:15 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-448781 It does seem like one or two people on Marvel Earth would think it was suspicious that Spider-Man revealed his identity on TV and now nobody remembers who he is. I wonder, if someone went back and watched a tape of the press conference, would he have a blurred face and a distorted voice? Oh well, whatever. Rip that band-aid off, I guess. It does seem like one or two people on Marvel Earth would think it was suspicious that Spider-Man revealed his identity on TV and now nobody remembers who he is. I wonder, if someone went back and watched a tape of the press conference, would he have a blurred face and a distorted voice?

Oh well, whatever. Rip that band-aid off, I guess.

]]> By: Apodaca http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-448596 Apodaca Wed, 09 Jan 2008 03:32:20 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-448596 I have to say, that is some terrible work by Romita. Harry Osbourne looks like a mannequin. I have to say, that is some terrible work by Romita. Harry Osbourne looks like a mannequin.

]]> By: JC http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-448379 JC Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:25:54 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-448379 About the memory thing, I think I see where this is all going. Peter will start hanging out in the coffee bean, complaining about how the coffee tastes like the dog took a leak in it. Then, Eliza Bloodstone comes to find him and recruits him into a secret organization with unlimited funds to undertake the mystery archeology of the Marvel Universe. Along with computer hacker Cipher at the behest of a secret 4th man, Peter starts to get into adventures with the Secret chiefs of the 616. Eventually, Nick Fury comes to find him and mess with the memory blocks and Peter remembers and...wait this is Planetary. Huh. How did that end again? About the memory thing, I think I see where this is all going.

Peter will start hanging out in the coffee bean, complaining about how the coffee tastes like the dog took a leak in it. Then, Eliza Bloodstone comes to find him and recruits him into a secret organization with unlimited funds to undertake the mystery archeology of the Marvel Universe. Along with computer hacker Cipher at the behest of a secret 4th man, Peter starts to get into adventures with the Secret chiefs of the 616. Eventually, Nick Fury comes to find him and mess with the memory blocks and Peter remembers and...wait this is Planetary. Huh. How did that end again?

]]> By: james http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-448347 james Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:11:05 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-448347 Spider-Man for dummies!!! Spider-Man for dummies!!!

]]> By: Jason http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-448272 Jason Wed, 09 Jan 2008 00:34:51 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-448272 I like it, since I can just read my Essential Spider-man collections to read exactly the same stories! I like it, since I can just read my Essential Spider-man collections to read exactly the same stories!

]]> By: Andrew Collins http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-448186 Andrew Collins Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:46:42 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-448186 John Trumbull said: "I like how in the Marvel Universe, being dead is synonymous with going to Europe." So, THAT'S where Jean Grey, Captain Mar-Vell, and Elektra keep going! :) John Trumbull said:
"I like how in the Marvel Universe, being dead is synonymous with going to Europe."

So, THAT'S where Jean Grey, Captain Mar-Vell, and Elektra keep going! :)

]]> By: John Trumbull http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-448157 John Trumbull Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:34:25 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-448157 I like how in the Marvel Universe, being dead is synonymous with going to Europe. I like how in the Marvel Universe, being dead is synonymous with going to Europe.

]]> By: Rob http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-447986 Rob Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:28:09 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-447986 It just hit me that above spread is essentially Marvel Adventuers Spiderman. Don't think about it, don't tie it to anything else just enjoy the fluff generic story written for a five year old. It just hit me that above spread is essentially Marvel Adventuers Spiderman. Don't think about it, don't tie it to anything else just enjoy the fluff generic story written for a five year old.

]]> By: Thenodrin http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-447948 Thenodrin Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:09:16 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-447948 I also love the irony in the statement, "The past is the past." Also, if no one remembers who Spider-Man is under his mask, even people who knew years before the unmasking (like Daredevil) then what about Felicia Hardy, the Black Cat? Did they still have a romantic relationship? Did Peter never take his mask off while they made love? Or, did she forget, and just doesn't realize it? What about Venom? Did the black costume forget who was wearing it? I'm starting to think that it would have been easier for everyone involved if Quesada had simply started a semi-weekly (36 issues per year) title called Spider-85. Theno I also love the irony in the statement, "The past is the past."

Also, if no one remembers who Spider-Man is under his mask, even people who knew years before the unmasking (like Daredevil) then what about Felicia Hardy, the Black Cat? Did they still have a romantic relationship? Did Peter never take his mask off while they made love? Or, did she forget, and just doesn't realize it?

What about Venom? Did the black costume forget who was wearing it?

I'm starting to think that it would have been easier for everyone involved if Quesada had simply started a semi-weekly (36 issues per year) title called Spider-85.

Theno

]]> By: Rob http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/comment-page-1/#comment-447915 Rob Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:53:21 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/01/08/for-the-slow-kids-in-class/#comment-447915 Cue Rev. Lovejoy's wife screaming "Won't somebody think of the children" Cue Rev. Lovejoy's wife screaming "Won't somebody think of the children"

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