Comic Book Resources

Isn’t Patriot’s grandfather named Isaiah?

Yes. It’s the same guy.

My memory tells me (I was reading Cap at the time), that it was a letter writer who told Gru that Buck was a derogatory term. He (and I) didn’t know that.

He was mortified and changed it asap. (Too bad he changed it to such a crappy name.)

My recollection is the same as Rusty’s — a letter writer brought up the “Buck” connotation. Probably if Mark G had grown up down here in the South, it wouldn’t have been news to him …

Didn’t Bucky also get resurrected (at least “unofficially”) by Peter David during the Pantheon storyline in Incredible Hulk? Or is that another CBUL altogether?

I thought Robert Morales was going to make Cap the Vice President (based on my recollections of what he wrote on Joe Quesada’s boards). And it was when Bendis started writing Avengers that he asked Marvel to put a stop to it. There was even a lot of promotion for #25; “Cap makes an earth-shattering decision!”. (I suppose he did still made that decision; he just decided against it.)

There was a story in Hulk, right near the end of the Pantheon saga, where Agamemmnon was revealed to be an immortal, that looked a lot like Bucky.. but I don’t think that was anything official. Probably just PAD having fun.

Science Dad: If I remember correctly, Peter David dropped hints that the leader of the Pantheon (Agamemnon?) had been Bucky, but never stated it outright. (I think it was done more to make joking references to it, not that he ever intended to bring Bucky back in any capacity, but I can’t say for sure.)

Science Dad -

In Incredible Hulk #401, Agamemmnon reveals to the Hulk that he ages very slowly (and may even be immortal), has a youthful appearance *very* similar to Bucky’s, and that he occasionally has left the Mount over the decades to go adventuring. David inserted a bit of dialogue for Agamemnon that playfully suggested that he may, in fact, have been Bucky and survived the plunge into icy waters.

David wrote the line very tounge-in-cheek rather than “serious,” with a witty “maybe it’s true, maybe it isn’t” tone, and he periodically would bring the idea back from time to time, until he wrote the Pantheon out of the book. In another issue, Cap makes a guest appearance, sees Agamemnon’s real form, and has a “Huh? Nah…” moment.

I really liked Morales’s run on Cap - up until the end, which were two of the most nonsensical comic books I have ever come across. I am including the entirety of “The Invisibles.”

That Byrne/Stern idea WAS used, iirc.

In a “What If?” issue, they showed the quadrepalegic Bucky in a Government hospital ward.
But it was a “play it for laffs” issue of WHAT IF, and obviously not intended to be in continuity.

But, it was a weird bit, made even moreso, knowing the backstory of the Byrne/Stern concept.

~P~
P-TOR

So, does Marvel think African Americans are so ignorant that they can’t tell the difference between the words Buck and Bucky, or do they think African Americans are such emotionally immature wimps that they can’t bear to hear a word that sounds like an archaic insult?

I’m glad they made sure to point out that Buck is considered an insult in “some parts of the country”, because we all know that racial prejudice doesn’t exist above the Mason-Dixon line.

I guess we won’t be seeing any black characters named Thomas, will we?

And why is it that Marvel has no problem using terms like paddy wagon or jerry-rigged?

Sheesh.

It is high time some Mark Gruenwald Cap stories are collected in some format. And the DeMatties/Zeck run. I guess I might just have to wait for the Essentials to catch up to those eras, but I’d love to see them in color.

Christ, some people are never happy. Why do I get the feeling that The Mutt would be first in line to condemn Marvel if they had kept the Bucky thing going?

Ooh, mark me down for a DeMatteis/Zeck collection as well! That was a great run!

“So, does Marvel think African Americans are so ignorant that they can’t tell the difference between the words Buck and Bucky, or do they think African Americans are such emotionally immature wimps that they can’t bear to hear a word that sounds like an archaic insult?”

You seem to be ignoring the fact that actual people wrote in who were actually offended.

I think Gruenwald’s solution to using a potentially offensive name in the pages above is well done. I even learned something!

As lame as the Battlestar name is, it’s nothing compared to that costume. I guess it’s no worse than that horrible Super-Patriot costume shown above it, but lord, it’s not good. They make Team America look stylin’.

I believe the Morales didn’t want Cap to be elected President, but rather Vice-President. Shortly after the election though, the President would be assassinated, making Cap President.

-Steve!

I thought it was Dwayne McDuffie who clued Gruenwald in to the Bucky name being offensive. I remember him telling this story on his message board.

I’d look it up now, but I have to head out for work.

Really?Buck is an offensive word for Blacks?I’m black, and I’ve never really heard that.Maybe I’m just too young.Would that be the same as calling someone a “Young Buck”, because isn’t that how old guys refer to younger guys?

It’s too bad Lemar-as-Bucky was considered offensive; one of the things I liked about Lemar-as-Bucky was that it was such a shock to see a large adult black man in Bucky’s uniform. It feels weird, but that’s why it works.

Being a middle-aged white guy, I won’t pretend that I’ve heard every insult that gets tossed to someone of a different skin color, but I’ve heard quite a few and “buck” never came up in my travels.

And, although this is hardly proof of anything, wasn’t one of the “Cosby kids” in the Fat Albert mythos named “Bucky?” He was one of the few characters I *didn’t* hear about being insulting to African Americans.

Not trying to cause problems here, I would just like to know for sure if the term is offensive to anyone. Like Remy, I always assumed the term came from “young buck,” meaning a spirited young man.

[quote]So, does Marvel think African Americans are so ignorant that they can’t tell the difference between the words Buck and Bucky, or do they think African Americans are such emotionally immature wimps that they can’t bear to hear a word that sounds like an archaic insult? [/quote]

Well, I still recall the stink that was made when a politician used the word “niggardly” in context, even though it has no racial connotations whatsoever.

To confirm what several posters have already said: it was indeed a letter printed in the Cap letter column that first raised the issue, and I think that Marvel and Gru handled it rather well. Somehow, based on how they’ve handled current controversies, I can’t imagine Joe Q being so tactful.

Did we already know Winter Soldier was becoming Cap?

I’m glad they made sure to point out that Buck is considered an insult in “some parts of the country”, because we all know that racial prejudice doesn’t exist above the Mason-Dixon line.

Racial prejudice exists everywhere, but “Buck” isn’t an insult everywhere. In other words, “in some parts of the country.”

I guess we won’t be seeing any black characters named Thomas, will we?

Check out this week’s Damage Control for that exact joke.

And why is it that Marvel has no problem using terms like … jerry-rigged?

Because it’s actually “jury rigged” and has nothing to do with anyone’s name?

No, it’s jerry-rigged.

And jerry is referring to the WWII era slang for Germans, I think.

Of course, there have been several the OTHER Buckys. Fred Davis, Jack Monroe and the baby Jack Monroe carried around were all known as Bucky. Rick Jones was “Bucky” in costume, although never took the name. Alternate universe versions of Bucky include Rikki Barnes and Ultimate Bucky and several What If…Buckys.

There was another Bucky, although I can’t totally remember the specifics. It was a multi-part saga in which Bucky returned (drawn by Gene Colan if I remember right). I believe the final outcome was a look-a-like brainwashed by the Red Skull. Does anyone remember this storyline?

“And, although this is hardly proof of anything, wasn’t one of the “Cosby kids” in the Fat Albert mythos named “Bucky?” He was one of the few characters I *didn’t* hear about being insulting to African Americans.”

He was insulting to people with prominent “buck” teeth though!

no, it really is “jury rigged,” and comes from the old French ajurie, meaning help.

Even if you mean “jerry-built,” it still has nothing to do with Germans…

Jerry-rigged is a cleaned up version of “n-word-rigged.” I was really aghast to learn that, and I’ve eliminated jerry-rigged from my vocabulary. Its use in comics is a separate concern from the Bucky problem. Just because one instance of hurtful speech is ignored doesn’t mean any others should be. Cleaning up the Bucky mess could have been a good step to reassessing Marvel’s use of other derogatory terms.

I should say I’ve heard “n-word-rigged” and made the connection myself, so I could be wrong. Too close for comfort for me, though.

I don’t think that’s right - sounds more like whoever told you that was one of the people who thought “crowbar” was also some kind of insult.

“~ Rigging” is always “jury,” because it implies a quick fix - thus the French word for help. “~ Built” is always “jerry,” and refers to something that was made shoddily from the beginning.

okay, based on what you’ve heard, I looked it up, and I think whoever said “n-word-rigged” was just a racist. Jury and jerry are in the clear!

Oh, for the love of God, the term, however occasionally corrupted by nimrods, is in fact “jury-rigged.” Look it up. YOU’RE ALREADY ON THE INTERNET. It’s a nautical term without one whit of insult in it. I’ve heard people say “jerry-rigged” before, but I’ve also heard people say “card shark,” and that doesn’t make either one “right.” Aaaaaagh.

(and boy, we’ve really gotten off-topic here, haven’t we? How about that Bucky!)

“Jerry-rigged is a cleaned up version of “n-word-rigged.” I was really aghast to learn that, and I’ve eliminated jerry-rigged from my vocabulary. ”

Then why didn’t you write J-word-rigged?

Dan (other Dan):

Jerry-rigged is a cleaned up version of “n-word-rigged.”

No, it’s not, it’s simply a jumble of jerry-built and jury-rigged, which are similar, though distinct, in meaning. (The former, possibly, being a corruption of the latter. And definitely having jack to do with Germans, as it predates the use of ‘Jerry’ for German by at least half a century.)

Buck was a term used to describe Black Men who were used to impregnate female slaves. Similar to how they breed horses and dogs to create new and stronger breeds. The image of such a man would be similar to Lemar Hoskins.

Sluggo, don’t say you want to see the Cap books in “color”, someone could start whining about such an offensive term used in a totally non-offensive way.

Sheesh.

The Mutt said:

“Jerry-rigged is a cleaned up version of “n-word-rigged.” I was really aghast to learn that, and I’ve eliminated jerry-rigged from my vocabulary. ”

Then why didn’t you write J-word-rigged?

Why would you possibly ask such a stupid question?

Not that it matters, but i have heard buck used as a derogatory, usually in combination with the “n” word.

because using foolish language to point out flaws is a longstanding style of debate? In other words, he asked such a stupid question precisely BECAUSE it was a stupid question to ask…

card shark vs. cardsharp?

you learn something new every day.

I have no beef with either creator individually, but has there ever been a more mismatched pairing of art style and subject matter than the Truth: Red, White, and Black series with a very cartoon-y Kyle Baker drawing? Is there some behind the curtains backstory on why a serious, racially charged exploration of the mistreatment of minorities by the government was illustrated by a style more at home in a MAD magazine parody?

Regardless of the origins of the terms jerry-built and jury-rigged, the fact of the matter is that the term jerry-rigged was used by American troops to describe the shoddy state of German equipment in the last years of the war.

I saw an episode of the Charlie Rose show during that whole “niggardly” debacle. One of his guests was a professor of linguistics. The guest said,” People underestimate the power of words like Kike, Wop, Spick, Dago, the N word…”

If people are afraid to say the word nigger in a discussion of the word nigger there is something seriously wrong with us.

[quote]I think Gruenwald’s solution to using a potentially offensive name in the pages above is well done.[/quote]

Agreed. It’s mature and not too patronizing either.

Refreshing compared to the sad [b]”F— ‘em if they don’t like it”[/b] attitude exemplified by other folks.

I believe the offensiveness of the “buck” term has to do with the culture of trading and breeding that developed during Western slavery. Big, athletic, virile Africans were actually paired with women on different plantations to produce lucrative stock.

These guys were often referred to as [b]bucks[/b] or [b]big bucks[/b].

In the movie [b]”The Royal Tenenbaums”[/b], Gene Hackman’s character refers to Danny Glover’s character as “the big buck.”

Btw Cronin, this column is my favorite on the site. Thanks, and keep up the great work!

I really enjoyed Morales’ run on CAPTAIN AMERICA, however stinted it was. Him and Bachalo were a odd, but inspired, choice for doing the book.

So, does Marvel think African Americans are so ignorant that they can’t tell the difference between the words Buck and Bucky, or do they think African Americans are such emotionally immature wimps that they can’t bear to hear a word that sounds like an archaic insult?

Have you seen some of the things blacks get outraged by?

The niggardly controversy?: http://www.adversity.net/special/niggardly.htm

Protesting the show “Cavemen” as a racist depiction of blacks?:
http://www.libertypost.net/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=195223&Disp=8

I’m black but I’ll be the first to admit that blacks can get worked up and see racism in some pretty minor and illogical things. PLus you ignore the fact that people actually DID write in and complain, making your point moot.

I’m glad they made sure to point out that Buck is considered an insult in “some parts of the country”, because we all know that racial prejudice doesn’t exist above the Mason-Dixon line.

No one said that racism didn’t exist above the Mason-Dixon line. They said the word “buck” wasn;t commonly used as a racial slur above the Mason Dixon line. Big difference. They put that in there to explain how the non-Southern staff didn’t know that “buck” was a slur, not to imply that racists only exist down south.

I guess we won’t be seeing any black characters named Thomas, will we?

Not a lot of real life blacks named Thomas either if you notice.

And why is it that Marvel has no problem using terms like paddy wagon or jerry-rigged?

First, the mistake of “jerry rigged” has already been pointed out, but regardless how often is either term used in a Marvel comic? I can’t remember the last time I saw “paddy wagon” used in a modern comic.

As far as who told Gruenwald about the slur, according to the letters page it was a fan that tipped him off. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but that’s what the letters page said.

“Ooh, mark me down for a DeMatteis/Zeck collection as well! That was a great run!”

Ditto that.

“Really?Buck is an offensive word for Blacks?I’m black, and I’ve never really heard that.Maybe I’m just too young.Would that be the same as calling someone a “Young Buck”, because isn’t that how old guys refer to younger guys?”

It’s also how slave owners would refer to large Black males who they thought were particularly well-suited to hard physical labor.

i also agree that Gruenwald handled the “Bucky / Battlestar” change in an extremely responsible way. it could have been avoided or handled poorly, but Gruenwald put it in the story and made sense out of the whole thing to boot.

as for who told Gruenwald about “buck” being a racial slur… if it was anyone in the industry, my money is on Christopher Priest a.k.a. Jim Owsley. he was pretty entrenched in Marvel in the 80s as one of the few high profile African-American editors / creators at the time.

Brian - here’s a suggestion for a future Urban Legends (although the complete story on this one may not totally be written yet). there’s a character currently in the Iron Man comic book - Senator Kooning, an African-American politician. the name “Kooning” is only one letter off from (and sounds exactly like) the racial slur “cooning,” which is a negative term directed towards black Americans. is this a similar flub to the “Bucky” mistake made by Gruenwald? or is the story behind “Kooning” something completely different? either way, i’m personally shocked that Marvel editorial continues to publish Iron Man month after month with Kooning in the book.

clatterboot said …
“I have no beef with either creator individually, but has there ever been a more mismatched pairing of art style and subject matter than the Truth: Red, White, and Black series with a very cartoon-y Kyle Baker drawing? Is there some behind the curtains backstory on why a serious, racially charged exploration of the mistreatment of minorities by the government was illustrated by a style more at home in a MAD magazine parody?”

response:

clatterboot, at the time I remember that many people felt just like you. someone (either a creator or editorial… my gut tells me it was Morales himself) likened Kyle’s art style to visual jazz music. it was said that his “jazz” illustration style was a good fit because that was a popular form of music during the WWII era, not to mention a form of music that African-Americans were deeply involved in.

Ignoring all the other replies, I always thought that Bucky alonf with ben Parker, and Barry Allen should never be brought back. (Well except for What If?, and appearances akin to Barry’s appearance in Infinite Crisis. Their deaths meant something, Ben to Spidey, Barry to the whole DC Universe as well as the Flash’s to come. And Cap’s angst over Bucky always made him seem more human, as Peter’s guilt over Uncle Ben. I read the Winter Soldier storyline, and that was when I dropped the book like it was radioactive! After that and Civil War the only Marvel book I read is Spider-Girl. And if DC brings back Barry to current times there will go the Flash book as well. And this is not an Urban Rumor because, “COMICS SHOULD BE GOOD!”

Bobb

“So, does Marvel think African Americans are so ignorant that they can’t tell the difference between the words Buck and Bucky, or do they think African Americans are such emotionally immature wimps that they can’t bear to hear a word that sounds like an archaic insult?”

adding a y to a word barely changes the meaning/ connotation and could actually make it worse; I’ve heard the term “kikey”, doesn’t bother me less than kike, same with the term niggery (i’ve heard that one too,i’m half black and I’ve been told I don’t act’all niggery’;it pissed me off)and most caucasioans don’t mind being called white; but whitey on the other hand…
“And why is it that Marvel has no problem using terms like paddy wagon or jerry-rigged?”

the term jerry rigged’s been addressed, but as to paddy wagon, somehow most people don’t realize it refers to irish people, I only know cuz I live in Boston with tons of irish folk. A lot of people use racist terms without knowing it. Got ripped off and exclaimed “what a gyp!”?
Gyp’s a racial slur for Roma(gypsies). Ever got the Heebie Jeebies? thats a real old term for an uneasy feeling someone gives you because they might be Jewish. Ever been on a picnic? That comes from when slave auctions would be held in town squares/greens/parks etc and people would take some food and ‘pic-a-nig’.Doesn’t mean anybody who uses these terms is racist or even that they should be discontinued; I mean you really gonna stop saying picnic?

I actually heard a co-worker say “We’ll just Nigger-Rig it.” He was American and me being in Canada had never heard that saying before. Suffice it to say it did not go over well.

No matter what you do or how hard you try, someone is going to be insulted. Often, when the offendor has clearly gone out of his way to NOT do anything wrong or it is clearly an innocent action, the offendee is going out of their way to be offended. My general response to this is “Shut up and quit trying to cause trouble”. I’m not insensitive, but there’s a point when enough is enough. Personally, I’m really tired of always walking on eggshells.

Get over yourself. Let’s work towards tearing down the walls instead of building them higher. If you (the manufactured offendee) would get off your high horse and just TRY to be a productive member of socieity, it’d be a much better place for everyone, including yourself. Now shut up and quit trying to cause trouble.

Jared:

Ever got the Heebie Jeebies? thats a real old term for an uneasy feeling someone gives you because they might be Jewish. Ever been on a picnic? That comes from when slave auctions would be held in town squares/greens/parks etc and people would take some food and ‘pic-a-nig’.

Nonsense in both cases.

Heebie Jeebies was coined circa 1923, by Billy de Beck, and is, so far as anyone can tell, simple rhyming nonsense.

Picnic, likewise, is simple rhyming nonsense, in this case from late-17th century France, which didn’t spread to the US for centuries.

What’s the N-word?

Is it like the B-word?

I don’t think saying “n-word” is offensive. I think it just makes you sound like a child.

Picnic did not come from any such racist origin. Snopes has a nice write up about it @ http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/picnic.asp

Minor point but worth noting that the basic concept and design (Solo centered figure, collage of old comic images on white background) of that Cap #11 Winter Soldier cover is being utilized in the Young Avengers Presents mini-series.

Seems intentional and I appreciate the thematic linking of the future Cap to the next-gen of Avengers, especially how well-written their encounters with each other have been so far.

Being Canadian myself, I always took “young buck” to be a reference (as someone said above) to a spirited male and that the word “buck” was in reference to a male deer. I’ve used the term many times and not once have I ever offended anyone with it as they saw it the same way I do…no racism intended or implied at all.

…unless deers can get offended…

As for the Gruenwald issue, I was reading Cap at that time too and remember that it was a letter writer who tipped him off and Mark graciously gave the letter writer credit for it in a subsequent letter column.

I miss Mark Gruenwald.

avengers63 said:

“Often, when the offendor has clearly gone out of his way to NOT do anything wrong or it is clearly an innocent action, the offendee is going out of their way to be offended. My general response to this is “Shut up and quit trying to cause trouble”. I’m not insensitive […]”

Actually, nothing personal, but that’s kind of a textbook definition of being insensitive. I usually just apologize for the inadvertent offense, and make a note that the particular person who complained is sensitive about that particular issue. “Sorry” doesn’t cost anything, and it’s very hard to stay offended in the face of someone who’s apologizing to you. It does mean acknowledging that sometimes you can be wrong, and sometimes you might be the bad guy in a situation (even if only by accident.) That’s a lot harder than assuming that the other person is getting offended for some nefarious purpose, just to tick you off.

it’s very hard to stay offended in the face of someone who’s apologizing to you.

Unfortunately, that’s not true for everyone. I’ve seen it happen plenty of times; Someone gets all riled up because they think they’re being insulted, the other person explains it wasn’t their intention, and the offended party gets more upset because they feel foolish for getting angry int he first place. They keep on pushing because THEY won’t admit they made a mistake, and they won’t let it die.

Some people WANT to be offended.

Also Cotton-Pickin’ is a reference to slaves.

As in “Are you out of your cotton-pickin’ mind?!”

ABout the Buckies question.

The look alike was a robot.

I remember when I saw that Captain America had gotten a new black partner (I couldn’t– and can’t– stand Gruenwald’s run on the book, didn’t read it, and didn’t know Steve Rogers wasn’t Cap). I thought, Dear God, why don’t they just get over it and use the Falcon already?

Also, down in southern New Mexico, “buck” was also a derogatory term for Apache males. Could have been any Native American, but it’s just Apaches down there. I always hated hearing that talk– and ended up teaching high school on an Apache reservation!

…or to anyone else who picks cotton, which is the lowest, simplest of jobs in the process of growing cotton - implying the people who did it lacked the skills (and brain power) to do anything more complex.

But since it didn’t really come about as a phrase until almost 1920, it’s hard to think of it as being specifically about slaves (though it was probably* supposed to be racist). By that point, picking would have been done by far more than just blacks.

And of course “cotton-pickING” and “cotton-pickER” have vastly different connotations, as well…

*someone in their 70s at the time would still have clear memories of slavery, which is why a racist intention can’t be ruled out.

I agree with whoever mentioned the stuff about physical labor, breeding, etc. A perfect example of this is “Patch of Blue” with Sidney Poitier and Shelley Winters. Poitier has befriended Winters’ blind daughter, who tells Winters that Poitier has taught her a lot of things. Winters’ response is something like “I bet that black buck has taught you a bunch of swell things.” I don’t think she was trying to be kind.

// the term jerry rigged’s been addressed, but as to paddy wagon, somehow most people don’t realize it refers to irish people, I only know cuz I live in Boston with tons of irish folk. A lot of people use racist terms without knowing it //

Another thing to consider, most Irish folks really wouldn’t care about “paddy wagon”, Hell as the Onion once pointed out the Irish are the only group that has a holiday decicated to celebrating thier racial sterotypes.

Since no one else seems to have linked to this I will.

http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/buck.asp

According to Snopes.com “buck” is not a raciest term and the idea that it is somehow offensive and racist is in and of itself an urban legend.

Possibly no one else linked to it because that doesn’t address the racist connotations of “buck” at all - it’s just saying that the slang term for a dollar is unrelated to the term for a slave…

“Isn’t Patriot’s grandfather named Isaiah?”

Yes, and it’s a bit ludicrous to have a teenager with a grandfather who fought in WWII, particularly since it is established that Isaiah’s wife was pregnant with Patriot’s mother (or was it father?) BEFORE he got the super-soldier treatment, which would make at least one of Patriot’s parents born in 1941. I mean, my maternal grandfather was in WWII but I’m forty!

Also, “Buck” is indeed a racist term, though a rather old-fashioned one, kind of like “uncle.” It’s primarily a Southern term and was used mostly before WWII. It was also used on occasion (primarily in the 19th century) to describe Native American men and for the same reason, denigrating them as animals. The great Lakota writer Vine Deloria, Jr. wrote in “Custer Died for Your Sins” that whites considered blacks to be pack animals, fit only to serve, and Indians to be wild animals, fit only to be hunted down.

Hudak, you missread the snoopes.com definition. It said the use of “buck” as a synonym of dollar is not derived from the racially offensive use of the word “buck.”

But it did not say that “buck” is not a racially offensive term in certain contexts.

I think it’s great that “buck” or “young buck” does not automatically ring the racist bell in the minds of some.

However, most people over the age of 30 in the South as well as those who have studied much about U.S. slavery and/or American civil rights recognize “Buck” as being racist in certain contexts.

The use of buck when referring to a black male is basically comparing him to a strong, virile animal, in other words good breeding stock for other slaves. It basically says the person is good for labor and producing other laborers and has nothing else to offer society

To me and many others equating the worth of a human being to that of a deer or any other animal commonly used for food is degrading and offensive because it does not recognize the mind or soul of a human being.

For centuries, the dehumanization of different groups of people is the first step toward many inhuman atrocities.

Thankfully, in the last 120 years we moved past some of the racism that has been part and parcel of American culture since the first slaves were brought to North American in 1619, but I think we would all agree there is a ways to go.

The fact of this discussion is proof of that. Personally, I think Gruenwald and Marvel handled the situation rather well.

As for the character “Bucky” on the Cosby Kids that another poster brought up. That character had buck teeth, hence Bucky, but there is no doubt Bill Cosby saw the irony in the name.

Halo Of Angelthorne said:

“Yes, and it’s a bit ludicrous to have a teenager with a grandfather who fought in WWII, particularly since it is established that Isaiah’s wife was pregnant with Patriot’s mother (or was it father?) BEFORE he got the super-soldier treatment, which would make at least one of Patriot’s parents born in 1941. I mean, my maternal grandfather was in WWII but I’m forty!”

It’s not as farfetched as you think. I’m 30 and my FATHER fought in WWII. He was 49 when I was born. So some WWII vets did have late-in-life children…

Black people named Thomas?
How about the Associate Justice on the Supreme Court of the United States?
Clarence Thomas.

De-powered Hercules?
I read the cover as LAME of the Gods.

Maybe Dwayne McDuffie wrote a pitch for this, too?

It does seem like “bring back Bucky” and “make Cap President” are two of the biggest crutches a writer clings to when trying to find a story to do with Cap. Not as big as “replace Cap” or “kill him”, but it does go to show why so many writers have a hell of a time figuring out what to do with him. He’s such a cipher personality-wise sometimes, it makes him easy to abuse that way.

62.Apodaca said … Unfortunately, that’s not true for everyone. Some people WANT to be offended.

My point exactly. Were the supposed offender being insensitive, they would not have gone out of their way to try not to offend. For me, blowing off the person who is dead set on being offended re-directs them quite nicely. Then those arguments get ignored as well. But the underlying statement remains: Some people WANT to be offended.

Blowing off the easily offended works fine online, but not so much in professional life. If someone is in your face accusing you of being a racist because you let the Criminal Studies section of your bookstore spill into the African American section due to shelf space constraints, you have to do something.

(This actually happened so I know how the person in question dealt with it, but I’d love to see the armchair quarterbacks here think they’d handle it.)

No, “cotton-pickin’” is not a racist slur referencing slavery, it’s a euphemism. It has no intended *meaning* beyond serving as a substitute for a more offensive phrase with a similar sound, just like “Gosh darn it!”, “Dag nab it!”, “What in the Sam Hill?”, “Holey Moley”, and, slightly more obscurely, “Oh my stars and garters!”

I remember that Bucky to Battlestar comic and I always wondered if the name change was an homage to the TV series Battlestar Galactica which had a character named Starbuck on it. I remember the character was once in jail and someone said what kind of crime was Starbucking. I always thought it was similar to a studly guy. I have heard White, Black and Native Americans refer to men in their late teens and early 20s that are strong, athletic and presumably sexually active, or in the least get a lot of girls as Bucks and I think that definition is where the original Starbuck name came from as well as an homage to Buck Rogers who also could be considered a Buck along these terms. Why was Bucky called Bucky in the first place?

Black people named Thomas?How about the Associate Justice on the Supreme Court of the United States?Clarence Thomas.

I don’t know if this is a joke or serious, but just in case: we’re talking about Thomas as a first name. After Uncle Tom’s Cabin, an Uncle Tom became a derogatory name for what was perceived as a subservient, sellout meek black person that didn’t fight for his rights or independence. Especially after the black power and civil rights movements. When they call you a “Tom” in the black community, its an insult. Its even used as a verb, “Tomming” is when a black person is kissing up to the white man. That is why its rare to find American blacks named Thomas.

LYNXARA: Mixing retail/professional examples with personal one-on-one examples becomes a grey line of how to do it. But… let’s go with your incident. Before I get into it, I’ll state that I’m not an “armchair quarterback”, but have +/- 20 years of dealing directly with the public in a very ethnically mixed environment: food service.

Your situation: Someone accuses you of being a racist because you let the Criminal Studies section of your bookstore spill into the African American section. Your person is obviously looking for a confrontation and is manufacturing an offense. Any reasonable person would be able to see the boarders of any two adjoining sections and see a certain amount of spillover. This person choses NOT to see the reality, however, and choses to see an opportunity to be offended. They then end up with me, the manager.

It is my job to deal with the public in a professional manner. Many times, I’d much rather tell them to shut up and stop causing trouble, but my job duties (and desire to keep my job) prevent it. I apologize for any offense they might feel and explain that there is always a certain amount of spillover with adjoining sections. I attempt to explain that no offense was intended and we do out best to avoid such things. As a means of making amends for their “hurt feelings”, I’ll offer them a one-time discount (bribe to shut up & go away) on their purchase. As this person is intent on being offended, they do not receive the truth or the bribe. At this point, the person usually becomes either loud or abusive. In either event, their lack of reasonableness just lost them whatever I might have been willing to do for them.

If they were truly offended, they are very likely to be reasonable if dealing with me. I’ve seen it many times. When there is a real problem and the management tries to make it better, they’re usually OK with it. It’s when they’re manufacturing a problem in an effort to get something from you that they don’t back down. The race card is particularly hard to let go of for some reason.

Whether they’re loud or abusive, my response is basically the same. The exact words are tweaked, but I calmly, politely, but clearly explain to them that we (the employees of this store) are not required to listen to any kind of verbal abuse. If they want the situation dealt with, they will remain calm, peaceful, and polite; I will not talk with them if they cannot not will give the same respect they demand to receive. This USUALLY does the trick. They’re trying to get something from me they don’t deserve. They know that if they have any hopes of getting it, they’ll play nice.

If they refuse to calm down, I instruct them to leave my store. If they still refuse, I advise them that they either leave on their own or they will talk with the police. In 20 years, it’s only been taken to this point twice. They left both times without police involvement.

The key in these situations is to remain calm and respectful. YOU have something THEY want. They’re manufacturing an event in order to get it. Despite that everyone involved knows they’re full of crap, your company will tell you to give it to them anyway. That’s fine, but they’re not going to bully me into giving it to them.

But that’s handling the situation in a professional atmosphere. If it’s not in a customer service environment, I tell them what I can’t tell my customers: Shut up and stop causing problems.

Blah Blah Blah…PUHLEEZE, no more of this. As a Dego-Mick hybrid, I find all of this boring. Isn’t there anything more important to talk about than what words people get offended by? Like how a bout this- “Why does Marvel editorial keep getting in the way of their writers?” See…that’s a real topic. How great would Morales’ Cap as President been? Heck, even Wizard back in the day ran an article on it. Seriously, Marvel- let the writers write, and keep the editors just editing, and damn the continuity!