Comic Book Resources

Figures. I just bought the first trade and haven't even had a chance to read it yet.

awwwww crap!

Danggit! I've really been enjoying this series.

Damn it!

Another Vertigo series bites the dust.

Who's next?

Loveless?
DMZ?
Northlanders?

Placing bets, anyone?

I thought the first trade was really good. That blows.

For an imprint that's had it's biggest successes in recurring trade sales (Sandman, Transmet, 100 Bullets, Y) this is a pretty disturbing trend. I'm conditioned to enjoying their series in trades, almost like manga, and this is the second series (American Virgin being the first) getting the axe just when I'm getting into it.

I know that straight-to-trade or OGNs are a risky proposition, but don't the singles have to be viewed as a loss leader until they have sales data on 2 or 3 trades to see what's catching on? Either that or stick to series with a finite number of chapters (6-12-18 issues). Virgin and especially Crossing Midnight seemed to be building longer and deeper narratives that could/should have sustained more than the number of issues they ended up being allowed to produce.

What sad news. I just finished Crossing Midnight, and said "I know its not selling well in issue format, but I really want this to go on for at least 3 more trades". But it sounds like there will just be one more.

It wasn't as good as Lucifer. But it was close. And I thought Lucifer was one the best Vertigo series ever.

I've heard Exterminators is ending soon too? Anyone know for sure? I had been enjoying that one in trades...

Exterminators is cancelled with #30.

It's really disappointing to see Crossing Midnight go so soon, as it was becoming an incredibly interesting series. I think it's a credit to the series that this was one the titles I looked forward to reading every month, despite almost completely burning out on Japan-centric storylines following my 2-year manga binge in college. In that vein, I really think they could have attracted a wider reader base if they had gotten an artist with a more manga-influenced artistic sensability, although Fern's art has been slowly growing on me.

So, I'm beginning to think that Karen Berger and Vertigo REALLY need to start re-thinking some of their business practices. I'm just not sure what they can do to reverse the tide right now. Vertigo is still producing some high quality comics, but their hits are fewer and further between these days, as compared to their heyday in the mid to late 90's. Right now, if you look at the sales numbers, the Fables books are the only thing really sustaining them. I am very curious to see how Northlanders and Young Liars do in the long run.

Why I question their business practice is that I, as a consumer, have no faith in them anymore. They seem to cancel so many series after 1 1/2 to 2 years, that I am afraid to buy one of their series for fear that it will also meet another premature end. I got fed up enough with that after the abrupt ends to Codename: Knockout, The Crusades, and American Century in quick succession. I don't seem alone in this either as the individual issue sales figures are just horrible. I like to buy my Vertigo books in the trade format anyway. However, people keep pointing to that as the reason Vertigo is having the problems they're having. The "wait for the trade" crowd being their target audience at this point.

I'd like to see more graphic novels from them, with particularly popular ones getting a regular release. But the price point and format can make that too prohibitive. I'd also like to see some of Vertigo's "classic" talent come back and do new projects, like Neil Gaiman, Grant Morrison, Garth Ennis, Jamie Delano, Pete Milligan, Chris Bachalo, Sean Phillips, Steve Dillon, etc. But again, that's just me talking as a consumer...

I dunno, Andrew, I think those same critiques you're making now were made when Preacher was ending its run, and then Y and Fables both came out.

Vertigo can't MAKE the books popular. They try to allow books to find their audiences, but if they just aren't being read, what more can they do?

Y was a big hit before it even reached its first trade. Fables took maybe one trade before IT, too, was a hit. It may not be fair to the quality books that don't find audiences, but I don't think there's anything wrong with Vertigo's approach.

Oh, I know you can't just MAKE a hit book. I also remember people worrying about Vertigo's status ever since Sandman ended in 1996. As long as Karen Berger is there, I expect there to be a Vertigo.

I guess my point was, that Vertigo has backed me into a 'wait and see' approach to trying out their titles as a fan. I hear Scalped is amazing, but I keep waiting to see if it lasts past issue #18 or 24 or whatever the usual cancellation number is. This is just based on so many of their recent books not getting the chance or finding the audience they used to.

That's why I'm questioning their current approach. It doesn't seem to be working to me. Yes, Fables and Y have done well, but what else has since 2002? I'm afraid I don't know what the answer to that is, but I feel like Vertigo has been slipping further and further into insignificance the last few years...

I don't share the trepidation about buying comics because you're afraid they're not going to go on for years, Andrew. I understand that it's frustrating to not see a series make it to its in-story conclusion, but why not get two whole years of enjoyment from a book like the Exterminators? It's too bad Crossing Midnight is being cancelled, but you could have had 19 months of solid comic entertainment from it if you had picked it up initially. Moreover, if you buy a copy, there's that much more chance it will be profitable enough to continue on.

Andrew, according to Jason Aaron, sales of Scalped TPBs have been incredibly strong, so apparently that's one series you don't have to worry about getting cancelled for a while.

I hear Scalped is amazing, but I keep waiting to see if it lasts past issue #18 or 24 or whatever the usual cancellation number is.

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If people don't pick up a book because they're afraid it's going to be cancelled, of course it's going to be cancelled. If you want a book you're sure isn't going to be cancelled, you're pretty much stuck with X-Men and Batman.

What's the alternative? Publish fewer books? I don't like that. Commit to a 30-issue run regardless of sales? That's kind of crazy. The way of the business is that you're going to have to deal with a few Crossing Midnights and American Virgins for ever Fables or Y.

Wow, if people would actually buy the book, as opposed to waiting for a trade to come out, it might have actually succeeded. I'll never understand how someone can say their supporting a series by waiting for the trades. If nobody buys the book, and waits for the trade, its doubtful the series would even make it to a "trade-possible" number of issues, to begin with.

Dan (The other Dan)- Actually, I did read the first Crossing Midnight trade and it didn't really grab me. So I don't necessarily lament its passing.

Dave- That's good to know. I plan on checking Scalped out as soon as I can find a copy of the first trade.

Ryan Day- That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying (and I'll repeat myself for the last time here) is that my confidence as a buyer is shaken in VERTIGO's product stability. I'm not talking about main DC books, or Marvel, or any other publisher. I'm only summarizing my current attitude about Vertigo. I buy books from other publishers that sometimes have lower sales/print runs, but those publishers (like, say Antarctic Press for example) have my faith as a customer that that series is going to be given a fairer chance to find an audience and last awhile.

Vertigo's books used to make up the bulk of my buying lists and I used to try out every title as it came out. I am now reluctant to do so because I feel like the hatchet swings down much faster on average for a lot of their books lately. It's made me cynical as a consumer so that whenever I see a new Vertigo book come out, I always wonder "How long until THIS one gets cancelled?" I know some will dislike my saying that, but that's how I feel about the current state of Vertigo, which is that it's pretty weak right now.

Vertigo-wise, Nathan, you're off. Basically every Vertigo title is going to get at least ONE trade, and it'd require truly godawful sales (we're talking Deadman levels of bad) on the first trade to keep the series from getting a third trade.

Vertigo is BUILT on trade sales.

And Andrew, I just don't buy the confidence argument. Vertigo is no different now than it has ever been - some books are successful and some books are not.

For every Fables, Preacher, Transmetropolitan, Scalped or DMZ, there's gonna be a Codename: Knockout, Crusades, Exterminators and Crossing Midnight, ALL of which, by the way, were carried by Vertigo past the point of simply poor sales.

Really, when did Vertigo EVER not cancel titles that sold poorly?

I went back, and checked, and of the initial nine Vertigo titles when the imprint began, a THIRD of them were canceled within 24 issues due to low sales, and two of those three were new series.

It's always going to be difficult to launch new series in a line like Vertigo, whether it be 1992, 1996, 2002 or 2008.

I'm not reading Crossing Midnight or Exterminators, so I'm not commenting on the quality of the material here. But if sales are bad, and Crossing Midnight got to 19 issues and Exterminators 30, I'd say Vertigo gave each book more than a chance to find its audience. Yeah, it's always too bad when good series end before they're ready to end. But it's also been a fact of the industry for decades, if not for the entire history of comics. Omega the Unknown is a perfect example from before the Vertigo era. It seems to me that Vertigo is pretty willing to not sell as many single issues of a title and make up the money in trades. But if the trades aren't selling that well either, what are they supposed to do? It is still a business.

I'm going to try and keep from restating my points because we can just go in circles about this all night and day. Yes, Brian, I know Vertigo has always had some duds in their lineup, like the Kid Eternity and Black Orchid books you eluded to you in post #21. I just feel like recently they've had more duds than before. In just the last 6 months, we've seen Testament, American Virgin, Crossing Midnight, Deadman, and Exterminators all cancelled. And if you look at the sales figures from Diamond, several of the others are struggling to move more than 6,000 copies a month. While that is STILL a better track record than Wildstorm lately, I see it as something to be concerned about. I'm not really trying to 'sway' anybody's opinions about Vertigo, I'm just stating why I have been so hesitant to pick up their books lately.

Yeah, every Vertigo title is going to get one trade. But, what i'm saying is, why would anybody expect a series to last, when nobody buys the first, say 5 or 6 issues of a series to wait for the trade. Yeah, the first one would get made. I'd say Vertigo depends on trades for a series to continue, perhaps, to some extant, unfortunately. But for the series to actually get off the ground, waiting for trades isn't going to do that.

I’d say Vertigo depends on trades for a series to continue, perhaps, to some extant, unfortunately.

We've already established it does. See Scalped, Lucifer, 100 Bullets.

But for the series to actually get off the ground, waiting for trades isn’t going to do that.

Wait... What?!? Since Vertigo puts every series in trade, and factors in the sales of those trades when deciding whether or not to keep a series going...

I don't see your point. At all.

I'd be curious to see how sales of Crossing Midnight trades did relative to trades of other series selling in the same bracket as singles. I suspect if it got the axe so quickly, the trades were possibly underperforming.

You know, I've always said that if "Outlaw Nation" and "The Crusades" (two favorites of mine) had been given trade support they wouldn't have been canceled. Now, with the recent swath of Vertigo cancellations, I'm not so sure...

But for the series to actually get off the ground, waiting for trades isn’t going to do that.

Except in the case of all the vertigo books where it does.

I suspect if it got the axe so quickly, the trades were possibly underperforming.

I found the first trade to be rather uninteresting and slow moving, so I'm not surprised to hear the series is getting canceled.
That said, I was going to give the second volume a shot when it came out, as I didn't much like Lucifer either until the second volume.
(Same with Fables as a matter of fact).