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2/18 – Declarative Rabbit Says…

It’d be cool if DC killed off Carter Hall and had him be reincarnated as an actual Egyptian guy this time around – it’d give DC more diversity (IS there an Egyptian superhero of any note in the DCU?) without having to replace a notable character.

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28 Comments

Is Black Adam technically Egyptian? I’m nowhere near enough of a DC fan to actually know one way or the other, but 52 seemed to lean pretty heavily towards at least making him seem Egyptian.

Eh. Hawkman? Really? The JLA has all the choice in the world, and the guy’s superpower is that he has big wings. At least Hawkgirl’s hot and has a mace.

Yup, like Dave said; both ISIS and Black Adam were originally Egyptian… even if that part of Egypt has been retconed into an imaginary country.

Second of all, Hawkman’s history is convoluted enough; let’s not make it worst with some lame gimmick.

And yes, as a minority I’m calling the whole diversification idea (as in from another Country) lame.

Now, don’t get me wrong; I’m all for alternating genders and races. Meaning that it’s okay with me if you want a Black Superman or a male Wonder Woman.

But when writers start writing about countries they think they know, but not really, well…

It’s not that you can tell they are ignorant, it’s that their ignorance gets somewhat insulting after a while.

Case in point, why would Fire who speaks portuguese(because she happens to be Brazilian), use the clichéd spanish substitute for expressing awe: “Madre de Dios!”

After 30 years, shouldn’t somebody have caught that?

Then again, I’ve been in Mexico, Puerto Rico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Cuba, Venezuela, Colombia and the Dominican Republic; and I’ve never, EVER, heard anyone say Madre de Dios, unless they were praying (and had a rosary in hand).

For those of you wondering… they say “Dios Mío”

I get what you’re saying, but I think it’s more correcting an error to begin with – Hawkman is supposed to be a reincarnated Egyptian, but he’s never actually ever been an Egyptian!

I am glad some others caught this one, black Adam and Isis were both Egyptian. Their names (Adam’s original and Isis’ heroic) are clearly Egyptian, as are various things throughout the story lines they were involved in. Additionally, the simpler Hawkman gets, the better.

I agree, Hawkman’s awfully goddamned convoluted as it is. Not to mention, that the more times they introduce Egyptian characters, especially in this day and age, the more they have to deal with the problems of picking a race for the character–and the race of the ancient Egyptians is pretty hotly debated these days, so someone gets pissed off either way.

Elijah: I think all minorities in comics should be depicted as exotic, like Storm and Vixen, thereby reducing them to a gimmick. No, wait, I don’t think that at all.

I like prominent “diverse” characters in comics: women, minorities, and gays. But they need to be real characters and not just placeholders or tokens, like Hawkgirl and John Stewart were for the Justice League cartoon. Luckily, Hawkgirl was interesting, but I think there’s only maybe one good John Stewart episode.

Personally, I’d just as soon see Carter die and Katar return. I always preferred the Thanagarian Hawks to the reincarnated Hawks (although Kendra is an exception, due to some excellent character development in JSA).

I’m with M Bloom- if Carter were to go, I would prefer to have have the Silver Age Thanagarian back.

Vincent Paul Bartilucci

February 18, 2008 at 9:16 am

From the white suburban guy …

I absolutely hate when established characters are recreated in the name of diversity. Don’t give me a black Superman – make me care about Icon! Don’t give me a female Vision – make me care about Jocasta! I’d rather read about Black Lightning than an African-American Lightning Lad, anyday.

And red-Ricky: a male Wonder Woman? Please. I defy anyone to name a major female character who was recreated as male. Or a major hero of color who was reintroduced as white.

Vincent Paul Bartilucci

February 18, 2008 at 9:18 am

Another vote for the Thanagarian Hawkman from this poster, too.

Yeah I want my Thanagar Hawks back. I re-read my Hawkworld by truman every now and again and it just makes so much more sense than John’s retcons. I wouldn’t even mind if Thanagarians were Egyptian!

That being said, I have my issues with racial diversity in comics (my biggest pet peeve is that supposed kung-fu or judo masters are predominantly white) but as has been said: I don’t want a cheap gimmick (like that Planet DC crap from ages ago). I want good, multiethnic characters that are actually written well. I think Checkmate has dome the best of this so far (where Rucka has Fire swear in Portuguese, the ruling council was at one point 3/4th nonwhite, and you got the Great ten, and specifically August General in Iron, being a badass).

“I defy anyone to name a major female character who was recreated as male.”

Don’t know if it counts as “major,” but there was a male Cheetah (as in the Wonder Woman nemesis) running around a few years ago.

There are a LOT of super heroes with Egyptian themed powers or origins that aren’t actually Egyptian, aren’t there? Moon Knight, Metamorpho, original Blue Beetle, basically any hero who used to be an archeologist. It would be nice to have one who actually is Egyptian for once. I wouldn’t take Hawkman though, because as messy as his continuity already is, having him die and instantly reincarnate as a full grown man would only make things worse (and take a bunch of crossovers/miniseries to explain). No, better to make a new superhero. Of course, then no one would read it and it would get canceled around issue 14 after a few months of rapid artist-swapping, and then editorial would constantly point to it during interviews and say “see? new ideas, characters and minorities just don’t sell! stay tuned for Batlantern versus the Amazon New Gods (everyone dies)!”

“Hawkman is supposed to be a reincarnated Egyptian, but he’s never actually ever been an Egyptian”

Why should he be?

On the one hand, I’m not sure why reincarnation would respect national borders.

On the other hand, if you want to require Egyptian ancestry, then considering the interactions among Mediterranean civilizations (Greeks and Romans in Alexandria, Carthaginians, the Vandals in North Africa, North African Muslims taking over Spain, etc) there’s probably a fair amount of Egyptian DNA floating around the world today.

Still, whether or not you bring him back as an Egyptian, isn’t it a bit silly for him to be this unending line of blond white guys? At least set up of those reincarnation montage panels (when flashing back to his origins) to show that he’s been bounced all over the world in his various incarnations, not just going straight to Europe and North America after his one life as an Egyptian. If he comes back as black, Chinese or Australian Aboriginal, it’s still the same character, with a highly unique perspective on race and what people both have in common and don’t, at that, offering a more interesting take on things if you choose to keep “reincarnated guy” as the central gimmick. If not, well, like a poster above stated, I always found him kind of dull when just portrayed as “guy with wings”.

According to Tibetan monks I used to teach English to, when someone dies they USUALLY reincarnate somewhere close by. If they reincarnate far away or in another country (which has actually happened for important lamas before) its due to some specific ties to or unfinished buisiness in that region. Of course, who knows really.

I’d prefer the entire Egyptian origin be wiped out in Final Crisis to make way for the more straightforward Thanagarian origin.

Wonder Woman’s temporary replacement Artemis was supposed to be from an Egyptian tribe of Amazons. So she’s FROM Egypt, even if she’s got red hair and white skin. And is named after a Greek goddess.

As for a minority character replaced by a white guy – Abin Sur?

Wait, so if they kill Carter and he comes back as an Egyptian, does he still have his old memories and personality? If so, how would that make him any different, other than his skin being slightly darker?

I wouldn’t take Hawkman though, because as messy as his continuity already is, having him die and instantly reincarnate as a full grown man would only make things worse (and take a bunch of crossovers/miniseries to explain).

But that is precisely what happened!!!

Alright kids, sit down, school is in session…

If I remember correctly, on our last class we talked about Zero Hour; and one of the things that Zero Hour allowed was for writters to bring different permutations of established characters. So for a split second, Batgirl was back and Alfred was Fat, etc.

Over in HawkWorld country, which had been renamed Hawkman, Carter Hall and Shiera Hall and Katar Hol… they all were turned into a character called HawkGod; which happened to be the same Hawkman that was running around during Kingdom Come.

So anyways, along comes Parallax; and he eats the Hawkgod, and that’s that. No more Hawkman for ten years.

Because Hawkman was dead, Grant Morrison gave us Zauriel. Which is an awesome character, but nothing like Hawkman (except for the wings thingie).

So anyways… ten years later, Geoff Johns gives us The Return of Hawkman in JSA 22-25, and yes, Hawkman is back to being Thanagarian.

For those of you still with me, here’s how the new history goes…

1.Thanagarian spaceship crashes on Earth and Prince Khufu discovers Nth Metal. He makes weapons and stuff; plus his soul is binded to Chay-Ara. Then they die.

2. He reincarnates as Silent Knight; then dies.

3. They reincarnate as Nighthawk and Cinnamon; then die.

4. They reincarnate as Carter and Shiera Hall; find all those Nth Metal weapons, then die.

5. Carter is reincarnated as Katar Hol by Thanagarian priests (JSA 22-25). He is now Thanagarian.

6. Shayera/Hawkwoman is killed during the Rann-Thanagar War. She was a third wheel because Shiera Hall’s spirit appears to be inhabiting Kendra Saunders body (aka Hawkgirl).

Alright class, I hope you had a good time, expect a pop-quiz any day now.

And Vincent Paul Bartilucci, you need to work on your joke recognition skills. It kind of looks like you can’t tell the difference between Wonder Woman knocking at the door and a Wonder Woman knock-knock joke. Just sayin’ man.

Jeffrey The Colombian

February 19, 2008 at 4:06 am

Madre de dios! Who cares? Hawkman is totally shit!

Hello?!??!?!

This is a comic book blog!!!!! We Care!

And have an opinion, about the smallest of comic book minutiae!!!

If you don’t know this by now… me thinks that you’d be happier bopping for Colombian hookers over at craigslist –now, Internacional!! –

So, you know… don’t come back until you can bring your A-game, or at least be able to list 5 different Bat-Mite incarnations.

Vincent Paul Bartilucci

February 19, 2008 at 5:14 pm

Yes, the idea of a “male” Wonder “Woman” seemed kind of silly. But I took it at face value ’cause, y’know, there was no little smiley face after it.

I’m still waiting for someone to mention my Vision comment …

Helloooo …. It’s a android ….

Jeffrey The Colombian

February 20, 2008 at 10:06 am

*SOBS* But… but… if I had to name five different incarnations of Bat-Mite just to post on a comicbook site… I’d be at a total loss! Red-Ricky, your use of popular buzz-phrases such as “A-game” and your overuse of exclamation marks to emphasise your point has put me well and truly in my place. I bow before your knowledge of Batman’s supporting cast and prostrate myself before your colossal wit and insight.

P.S: If there is a DC character shittier than Hawkman, it’s fuckin’ Bat-Mite. Well done.

P.P.S: The insinuation that I “bop” for hookers of any nationality is both horribly insulting and incredibly crude. Do you know the hideous things that some of those girls have to go through? The suggestion that I would be involved in anything like that is, frankly, obscene. I demand an apology immediately, lest the rest of this blog’s posters forever brand you a cretinous misogynist with borderline racist tendencies(you were very specific in your suggestion that I should “bop” for COLOMBIAN hookers).

Hmmmmm…you could Stargate it out, revise the origin so that he’s from Thanagar and the Thanagarians are the offworld descendants of the ancient Egyptians…so that you get Egyptian Hawkman, Thanagarian Hawkman, AND Golden Age Hawkman all at the same time…everyone wins! (Plus, you know, maybe this time the origin’s kept simple…seriously, how did “dude with wings and mace” get so complicated?)

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