Comments on: John Seavey's Storytelling Engines: Marvel Saga

By: Doug Atkinson

Doug Atkinson — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:20:07 +0000

The Iron Lad stuff is from Young Avengers (where the character was rebuilt following Disassembled). That's an example of what I meant about a character's concept becoming more complex through moving forward rather than having their backstory tinkered with; there was no retcon or tinkering with his past there (some tinkering with Kang's past, but that ship has sailed anyway, and it's inherent in a time travel based character), just new developments.

By: John Trumbull

John Trumbull — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:04:21 +0000

Wow, I didn't know that they added even MORE onto the Vision's backstory. When did all that Iron Lad stuff come in?

Excellent point about the downside of retcons, btw. I prefer the quiet retcons, when they just stop mentioning the things that don't work anymore, like Reed Richards & Ben Grimm being WWII veterans, or Mopee being responsible for the Flash's origin.

By: chris

chris — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:16:38 +0000

Retcons can be the kiss of death for great characters. Look at Ghost Rider and his revolving door of origin stories/incarnations. Now, supposedly, he's an angel instead of a demon...sigh.

By: Doug Atkinson

Doug Atkinson — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:12:35 +0000

"Why is it so hard for writers to make things simple?" Retcons aren't always the cause of the problem here. Be glad that no one has seriously tried to follow up on Dr. Doom and Immortus' speculation on their first meeting that they might be the same guy because...uh...they both had time machines, or something? Simplicity can sometimes be better achieved by selectively ignoring earlier material, because the first version of an idea isn't always the best one (see also: the original version of Sue Richards' power to turn objects invisible or visible, or several of the status quos that the Hulk had in his original 6-issue run). Likewise, some characters just accumulate complicated backstories just by moving forward, without any tinkering in their past at all. Illyana Rasputin comes to mind here (and I don't mean currently; her past was plenty overcomplicated when she was in "New Mutants" back in the '80s).

By: jazzbo

jazzbo — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:45:22 +0000

It does pretty much seem that the only stories many of the current comic writers are able to write (*cough*BENDIS*cough*) are either killing off existing characters, or revealing "shocking" new information about characters that radically change their history. It'd be nice if they would just come up with some new ideas and tell new stories instead.

By: Omega Alpha

Omega Alpha — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:33:00 +0000

The whole Kang has "900" different identities and versions thing you mentioned is very symbolic into one of the main problems of comics: this need to make everything convoluted, add background, retcon everything, etc. Why is it so hard for writers to make things simple? It isn't enough for character Z to be character Z, he has to be the genetically modified clone of the alternate timeline son or daughter of character X and character Y.

By: Pedro BouÃ§a

Pedro BouÃ§a — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:13:38 +0000

You forgot to add that Immortus is yet another incarnation of Kang.

Best,
Hunter (Pedro BouÃ§a)

By: Doodlebob

Doodlebob — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:43:34 +0000

That summary of Vision's history perfectly sums up one of the main reasons behind my love-hate relationship with superhero comics. And why I generally avoid any X-title.