Where as Golden Age heroes are rough strewned adventures, working class heroes who were just as likely to be blue collar heroes who were working on railroads (Green Lantern), a boxer (Wildcat), a beat cop (Blue Beetle) or skipped college to go off to fight in the war (Captain America). When you look at the 30′s and 40′s, that was America’s labor pool. Sure you had doctors, and lawyers, and astronomers, and archeologists, but that wasn’t America at the time. America was strongly blue collar.

But in 61 science fiction became science fact. Sputnik launched, Russia put a man into orbit, and look what that did to the Marvel Universe. The Fantastic Four launched in 61, and when the head of the “first family” of the Marvel Universe holds is a man who attended MIT, Cal Tec, Harvard, and Collumbia, every character after that is going to have some sort of “super smarts” incorporated into their character just to keep up.

America changed gears, Marvel was there to capture it.

It’s not just him ranting; he had a number of stories in Amazing Fantasy where secret agents of *some* kind definitely killed his parents and sent him on the run.

I guess 1 is “a number.”

The first heroic DC lawyer that pops to mind is Manhunter. And who explains the science if the Atom isn’t around? I’d guess Batman. Who’s scond best dective in the DCU? Probably Oracle. Now, who’s the first best in the Marvel Universe?

No, DC likes smart and powerful heroes and villains who are not powerful but are smart…but still dumber than the heroes. So basically, DC likes villains that are much weaker than the heroes.

Or, to phrase it another way, DC stories tend to deal more with emotional/psychological stakes/threats than the more physical Marvel villains.

Who is the second best DCU detective with Ralph Dinby dead? Vic Sage, maybe?
Oh, he is dead too.

Are you dissing Detective Chimp?

Of course a jock can be highly educated. He was a High School teacher, which requires at least a BA and perhaps a Master’s. I think that in many states that effects pay. That makes him one of three (3) members of the current JLA with a BA, or better. He could easily be the most educated current member. However, there are exactly zero with a science background. I don’t think anyone would want their H.S. History teacher figuring out how to build a nano-dingus to stop Galactus.

That Guy Gardner is not a lawyer is news to me. I thought he was Hal’s public defender in ‘Emerald Dawn’. Although, that could easily have been punched away for all I know. Is there a lawyer in the JSA-JLA-Teen Titans network with Jean Loring … unavailable?

It strikes me that this really limits where the DCU can go. You can’t do courtroom stories without setting up a new character. You can’t really do medical stories either. With Lex back in Mad Scientist mode, there aren’t really business stories in the DCU anymore, nor political stories. There is no entry character to tell a psychological story (i.e. Doc Sampson). If neither of the Atoms are available, who explains the science? Who is the second best DCU detective with Ralph Dinby dead? Vic Sage, maybe?

Oh, he is dead too.

I’ve long thought that, as a general trend with many exceptions, DC likes powerful heroes and smart villains and Marvel likes to give the brawn to the villains and make the heroes use brains, teamwork or Weird Science Asspulls.

No, DC likes smart and powerful heroes and villains who are not powerful but are smart…but still dumber than the heroes. So basically, DC likes villains that are much weaker than the heroes.

And while we’re listing characters, I have to point out that Cable graduated Harvard Law School and Deadpool is almost certainly Marvel’s dumbest and least educated major character (unless you count juvenile heroes).

It’s not just him ranting; he had a number of stories in Amazing Fantasy where secret agents of *some* kind definitely killed his parents and sent him on the run. It’s not been clearly established whether they were with SHIELD, per se, but considering that no rival agencies seem to be chasing him currently, it seems logical. So, to the extent that we can trust Marvel stories to be connected and not be retconned…

Unless that’s just what Mephisto wants everybody to remember, that is.

Yep, and that right there disqualifies him from being smart, apparently. No hope of post-graduate degrees or posts like Secretary of Education or anything…

With fictional characters you can make up any generalities you want to support an argument…I guess that’s part of the fun.

But I always love seeing this one in the comics/SF/Fandom world: if you’re a jock, you can’t be smart.

Sore sport as an ex-jock, I guess.

But honestly, the Herc book is pretty decent. It’s a neat take on what the mythical characters do with themselves after forced registration.

Since Morrison’s run on JLA, I’ve assumed it’s a tie between Lex Luthor and Batman for number one, but is it possible there’s an actual ranking somewhere?

Then he went and got brain-dead, but that was really Hal’s fault.

Least smart major character in the MU?

How about The Human Torch, also Captain America (who Stan Lee didn’t create).

Add the Black Panther to your Marvel list of incredably smart characters.

(that’s a different Dr. Midnite – the one who would be in his 90s is dead)

Part of it is clearly Stan Lee. Nearly every character he created was educated, or a pretty bright teenager. Later Marvel characters are not as credentialed. However, another part is trend away from depicting smart characters in the DCU.

Who are the five best scientists in the DCU (in no particular order)?
1. Ray Palmer
2. Niles Calder
3. Will Mangus
4. Michael Holt
5. Ryan Choi

Not exactly the top tier of DC characters, nor even characters that are featured in monthly books. More to the point, the trend is away from featuring smart and/or educated heroes in the DCU.

I mean, Doctor Midnite? The dude has got to be in his 90s. But, he is the premier physician in the DCU as near as I can tell. Barry Allen was a police scientist, Wally is a college drop-out and they tried to replace him with Bart who appears to have never completed grammar school. John Stewart is an Architect (which requires seven years of college) and Guy Gardner is a lawyer (also seven), but both are shunted to the side for a dunce like Hal Jordan.

Ted Cord was an inventor, while Jamie Reyes is High Schooler. As The Question, Vic Sage was involved in objectivism and Eastern philosophy. Renee Montoya is an alcoholic ex-cop. Hawkman used to be an archaeologist and Green Arrow a left-wing political activist, etc.

So, in addition to Stan Lee creating a bunch of very smart characters to start the Marvel U., DC has been dumbing down their legacy characters. Some of these moves are great. The Baron and Messner-Loebs runs on the Wally West Flash were some of the best comics that I have ever read. I hear great things about the new Blue Beetle, but the overall trend is there.

Dr Light II is a professional astronomer. She’s also apparently has an M.D.

Bruce Gordon (who may or may not count as a superhero, given he’s general used as the host of Eclipso) is also a scientist. (There’s a neat scene in Countdown to Mystery after Gordon regains the Eclipso powers, where he basically admits that he’d do more using them for scientific research then by using them to fight crime.)

Booster Gold definitely went to college, although it’s unclear whether or not he graduated after getting caught throwing football games. Bart Allen at one point read the entire SF Public Library.