"because he secretly pined over the fact that Hawkeye and Mockingbird had the perfect marriage and thought if he broke them up he would get extra evil points or something like that"

Did he share this idea with JQ and JMS?

Also, props to Steve for creating the definitive ‘modern’ homicidal Joker in the ’70s. Miller and Moore always get the credit for this (not that they ask for the credit), and while they took that ball and ran with it, the monster’s Dr. Frankenstein is Mr. Englehart.

Technically, the 'modern' homicidal Joker was created by Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams (or re-created, from the original by Bill Finger and Jerry Robinson). But the completely-bug-guano-crazy homicidal Joker was all Englehart.

And for me Englehart is still the guy who wrote my favourite version of Batman, ever. And I think it's actually by fluke as much as anything: Englehart decided to move to Europe and, to get all his writing for Detective in on time before leaving switched from writing "Marvel style" (plot, get artwork, write scripts based on artwork) to writing full script not even knowing who would draw them. (Marshall Rogers got them and the rest is history.)

And I think that's what makes it work: everything is written with such nuance (the characterization is sublime) and the dialogue and narration is so tight. I read the two Simonson issues of Detective (written Marvel style) and it's not there-- it's more seat-of-your-pants, slapdash. But those six issues after that are just magic in terms of the writing-- and that's before Rogers got his pencil and created such gorgeous artwork to go along with it!

Somewhere in the middle, I'd say; definitely better than Millennium, but not earth-shattering. (As with many Ultraverse series, there's also the problem of plotlines not getting to resolve properly due to the Marvel buyout.) I'd say it's worth sampling, at least. If you try Strangers, try to get a complete run (or at least single issues from the first year only) so you can read it in order, because there's a mystery that resolves over several issues and culminates in the first Giant-Sized issue, and it works better if you don't hop around due to buying whatever issues you can find in the quarter box as I did.

"The Laughing Fish" - STILL the best Joker story ever.

Your JLA run.

The perfect comics metaphor for Watergate.

The Beast in the Avengers.

Bringing back the Squadron Supreme.

Shang Chi - what a cool concept.

The irreverence that set the West Coast Avengers (the "Whackos") apart.

The first Detective Comics run - The Wayne Foundation Batcave, Chief O'Hara's cameo, Dr. Phosphorus, Boss Thorne, Silver St. Cloud, reviving & revamping Prof. Hugo Strange & Deadshot, and SO much more. If anyone here hasn't read these -- BUY THESE COMICS!

Guy Gardner - a great twist on the concept of a fearless Green Lantern & another wonderful example of Englehart building on the past.

The Carol Ferris/Star Sapphire history.

My favorite Hal Jordan moment ever - Star Sapphire throws him to the earth without a parachute. Hal never screams or panics. Instead he just keeps his cool and calmly looks for a solution to his problem. Truly a Man Without Fear.

But after that, she started to become more intriguing, once Englehart started to delve into her mysterious origins. By the time he got up to the material that's reprinted in the Celestial Madonna trade paperback, he was going full steam ahead, and Mantis became a really interesting character who was involved in some very cool stories that explored the history of the Marvel universe.

If the Mantis stories in the 1980s were mediocre, I think at least part of the blame lies with the editorial assistance Englehart had to deal with. At least several years back he was given that eight issue Celestial Quest miniseries to bring some closure to Mantis' story. It wasn't as good as his earlier stuff, but I still enjoyed it, and it gave some much needed closure to the whole character arc that Englehart had begun so many years before.

Not everything Englehart has written has been great.... but he has definitely written some great stories.

I also like his Defenders work more than what came after him, weirdly enough.

And I think his Silver Surfer run was great.

Talked to Steve a few years ago and he was telling me that he had always planned to get Clint and Bobbi back together before he left the book...but things happened and he just didn't get a chance to finish off the way he wanted. John Byrne started his run shortly afterward and a lot of people forget Steve's run that came before...Byrne's run is the run most people remember about that series...then Steve's and Roy Thomas.

Steve also mentioned that once Roy Thomas killed Mockingbird off that he wanted to do a mini-series where Hawkeye would enlist the aid of Doctor Strange to rescue Mockingbird's soul from Hell (it shouldn't be there because Bobbi was a hero and died performing a heroic act to save her husband so Mephisto is keeping her soul in Hell for reasons all his own.....because he secretly pined over the fact that Hawkeye and Mockingbird had the perfect marriage and thought if he broke them up he would get extra evil points or something like that.)

Anyway....that story got shelved for some reason (would have of loved to have seen it)....but Steve did manage to save a few of those story ideas and used them in his Hellcat mini-series where it was hinted the Mockingbird had refused an earlier attempt at a rescue....(perhaps a refernce to the 2000 Thunderbolts Annual) becuase she had been contacted by the S.H.E.I.L.D. E.S.P. unit and was now working on a convert mission for Fury in Hell....interesting but never came about.

(all this from an interview with Steve at Mid-Ohio Con 2005)

I also just wanted to add that the Englehart/Rogers/Austin reunion on the Dark Detective limited series a few years back was AWESOME !! I think it's my all-time favorite Joker story.....the part when he's on fire and he stops to look at himself in the mirror as he burned was priceless as was the way Bruce and Silver ST.Cloud's relationship ended for the second time. If you haven't read this yet...you need to check it out. Regretably I think it was Marshall Rogers last work.

Rene
Hey, Mark.

Steranko was amazing too, but I think his work was too brief. And count me as another one who wish Stern/Byrne had lasted a little longer too.

The only other major superhero to have so many good runs would be Daredevil, IMO. Even Bendis was good on DD, though he is a bad fit for the Avengers.

Yeah, Daredevil's gotta be right up there. His best runs (Born Again, Man Without Fear, Devil in Cell Block D) were better than Cap's best runs, and I've never read any Daredevil as flat-out awful as the Ney Reiber Cap. (And I like Daredevil a skosh more.)

But on my purely subjective scale: Daredevil had a lot of very good runs. Cap had a lot of great or nearly great runs, and beats out Daredevil, overall.

But I missed pretty much all of '88-95, so that might throw my calculations off.

acespot
Engelhart’s recent JLA Classified arc was 100% crap. Mischaracterized characters with poorly understood powers and origins in service of an extremely weak, almost laughably so, plot.

Agreed, but for a JLA Detroit story it was above-average.

And he wrote possibly the worst company-wide crossover of all time as well.

Doesn't de-value, or even come close to canceling out his best stuff.

And hey... Anyone got an opinion on Engelhart's Malibu work? I keep seeing it for cheap, and I'm wondering if it's more Coyote or Millennium, qualily-wise.

I disagree.

Although I'll just say it again, I thought Englehart's FF was a breath of fresh air.

The fruits of creator ownership!

Steranko was amazing too, but I think his work was too brief. And count me as another one who wish Stern/Byrne had lasted a little longer too.

The only other major superhero to have so many good runs would be Daredevil, IMO. Even Bendis was good on DD, though he is a bad fit for the Avengers.

I liked Mantis in her original appearances. Englehart was very much in tune with the 1970s, because Mantis embodied everything that was that decade in comics: feminism, martial arts, cosmic storylines, Vietnam, ethinic heroes.

I do think he should have left Mantis alone, though, instead of bringing her back endlessly.

I hate Englehart's Fantastic Four run, though. Fasaud, She-Thing, Secret Wars III, that endless travelogue in the Mole Man's tunnels. God.