Comic Book Resources

hmmm… i thought the second issue of Young Liars was a lot better than the first.

true, it’s got more than its fair share of cliches, but i guess i appreciated the attempt to present the characters as, y’know, characters rather than the super-kewl “types” they were in #1.

*sigh of relief* Sounds like I won’t be regretting my decision to drop Young Liars after the first issue.

(For that matter, I also dropped Un-Men after last month’s issue. I’m sure Ed Brubaker would be very, very disappointed in me, but I’m starting to think that I’m just not a Vertigo kind of guy. Scalped bored me stiff after two issues, so I dropped it. Somewhat earlier, I’d dropped Exterminators & Testament & DMZ after about 8 issues each. *sigh*)

Thanks for picking the series up, Greg.

awesome rant, by the way. i agree with you completely…

For mine, I’m not sure I can judge Suburban Glamour yet. If this were the end of the tale, I think I’d agree with you - it’s an okay story about real & compelling characters with a positive message and gorgeous art. But as McKelvie mentions in the backmatter, there is more to come from this story and these characters. If you look at it as an origin tale for Astrid, I think a lot of your criticisms can be looked at differently. We know who she is and what she stands for, who she cares about, an antagonist or two have been established, there’s intrigue amongst and about her friends (I think my favorite story bit from the series is what ends up being revealed about Astrid’s faerie animals in this last issue after their motivations being teased another way in the previous three)…I, for one, hope for a return to this world soon.

I’m with Comb & Razor on Young Liars - I liked this issue much better than the first and thought the players felt a lot more real. I think the stereotypical elements serve to set the reader up perfectly for the “oh SH!T” cliffhanger.

We were quite simpatico this week, Mr Burgas. Criminal was awesome (that may be some of my favorite Phillips art ever) and the Bru’s comment does smack of some hypocrisy (I’ve often felt this way about some of Ellis anti-mainstream snipe, too, but at least Ellis is pretty up front about his whoredom, and you rarely see him doing much promotion of his Marvel work). I dropped Dok Sleepless two issues ago for the same reasons, and Wasteland is one my favorite titles month in and month out. The only thing you have here that I didn’t get was Gamekeeper, but I’ll read it eventually as the internets slowly convince me that Jeff Parker is a writing god.

– Sean

“Yes, they do their own stuff quite often, but they also write big-time (wait for it!) superhero books for Marvel. Does Brubaker want us to stop buying Uncanny X-Men in order to buy Scalped? Maybe he does. ”

I suspect if Uncanny X-men is a comic you don’t actually enjoy then yes, it does imply. He doesn’t actually dismiss superhero comics - just people buying comics they don’t like by rote. The argument about people writing outside their personal comfort zone is fine, but not relevant to what he was talking about - if they’re writing good superhero comics which you like, the “Drop them” guidance doesn’t apply. And if they’re writing outside their comfort zone and resulting in not-so-good comics… well, why would you encourage them to do so? “Buy good comics” is the thrust of the argument, with a spin towards Mr Brubaker’s corner noirish corner*. You’re arguing against something he didn’t say, man.

On a personal level, I’m also never quite sure about the comfort zone thing. It’s an oddity of comics that we’d think - say - James Ellroy was a bad novelist for never trying to write a period romance or something.

KG

*And if you’re buying Criminal and liking it, you almost certainly will like Scalped. It’s an incredible comic.

I don’t think I can judge Suburban Glamour as a total entity either, but the fact is, this is a four-issue mini-series, so I have to judge it on that. I very much look forward to more stories about these characters, but there’s nothing wrong with looking at this as a discrete whole.

Yeah, you’re right, Kieron, to a certain extent. I know he’s not saying that we shouldn’t buy superhero comics, but I inferred it, and maybe I shouldn’t have. I guess I just don’t understand why ANYONE would buy comics they don’t like - I got over that mentality years ago - so I read into his rant more than he probably meant. I also inferred that he was saying if we don’t buy, say, Scalped, we’re somehow bad consumers. Again, that’s probably not what he means, but that’s how I felt. It is certainly possible that Scalped just isn’t a good comic. I wouldn’t say that, because I do like it, but it’s possible!

I’m curious about Brubaker’s assertion about 80s diversity in comics. I think there’s far more diversity now than there was 20 years ago, just maybe not in the monthly issue format.

Maybe the problem isn’t the lack of embracing diversity, it’s that the floppies are a dying format and the last genre to stick it out in that format is the continuity-heavy superhero melodrama. I happen to like continuity-heavy superhero melodrama, though.

Then again, I like Scalped a whole lot better.

Seriously, if you gave up on Scalped after two issues, give the trade a shot.

Eager for my Suburban Glamour TPB to come in the mail next month. Love McKelvie’s art.

>>I guess I just don’t understand why ANYONE would buy comics they don’t like - I got over that mentality years ago - so I read into his rant more than he probably meant. I also inferred that he was saying if we don’t buy, say, Scalped, we’re somehow bad consumers. Again, that’s probably not what he means, but that’s how I felt.

Read the boards sometimes. A lot of people buy comics they haven’t really liked for years, it seems. But yeah, you read a lot into what I was saying, Greg. I’m not saying people who don’t buy books like Scalped are bad consumers, I’m saying that if you want there to be more books of different genres in this market, then you have to support the good examples of that when they come out.

>>I’m curious about Brubaker’s assertion about 80s diversity in comics. I think there’s far more diversity now than there was 20 years ago

On sheer numbers, that might be true, but there were a lot less superhero comics in the 80s and there was more support for books from Pacific and First and Comico and Eclipse… and Fantagraphics. So the ratio is what’s changed, and the sales levels. Some of these publishers were putting out superhero comics, too, I know.

And I don’t really think the monthly floppy format is dying in favor of trades. The monthlies are still supporting the trades, for most books. Trade sales for all but a few series are not as big as some people would like to believe.

I guess I just don’t understand why ANYONE would buy comics they don’t like - I got over that mentality years ago …

Oh, come on. If you had to get over it, then at one point, surely you understood it. I often rant about that mindset and what it does to the sales picture myself, and especially how Marvel and DC are betting the FARM on that kind of reader these days; but at one point in the late 70’s, I WAS that reader. I have to admit, if I’m being honest, that I UNDERSTAND that weird collector’s OCD twitch that derives satisfaction from an unbroken run, even if it’s an unbroken run of crap.

The fact that so many comics readers suffer from that twitch is frustrating, absolutely. But I also think that a great many of us had to get over it ourselves.

I bought Uncanny and X-Men for a few years when I didn’t really enjoy it mostly just because of the collector mentality. I had every issue since the re-launch and didn’t want to break it up. I’m shuddering just thinking about Chuck Austen again. ugh. So based on that I can see Brubaker’s point but I totally agree with you about Bru and Ellis being stuck in a rut themselves. I really got burnt out on Ellis pretty quick since most of his stories seemed to be very similar. I’m really enjoying Brubakers work on Cap but his Daredevil is starting to wear a bit thin. I really didn’t think about it till you mentinoed it but it seems like he just keeps crapping on his main characters. Adversity is a good thing for the hero to face but when it is non stop it can get overwhelming.

Ed (and Greg): Yeah, I do understand it, I guess, because I was that guy once, too. But when I did it, comics were a lot cheaper, and I didn’t know about many of the choices that were out there. With the advent of somewhat expensive comics and the Internet, there’s no excuse for buying comics you don’t like. The collector’s mentality is silly when the books cost 3 bucks a pop and there’s so much else out there.

When KG stopped by, Ed, I went back and thought about what you wrote, and I admit, I reacted a bit more harshly than it probably warranted, because of the fact that in Criminal, I think you’re preaching to the choir a bit. Maybe it’s because I don’t like The Goon and don’t want to buy it. I completely agree with you that people need to be more aggressive in finding good books and supporting them, because it looks as if the bigger companies are never going to get any better at marketing them.

I would still love to see a Brubaker romance comic! That would be awesome.

I know in the 1980s there were more high-profile diverse comics, and I wonder how and why that went away. Today, I think there are a lot of different kinds of comics, but they don’t get the publicity. I don’t know if it’s that big creators aren’t doing them (which is why I do appreciate Ellis and Brubaker and others like them, even if I don’t always like the comics they write), or if it’s just more expensive for an independent publisher to get the word out. Someone needs to crunch the numbers!

I really miss all of the small publishers doing superheroes in the 80’s. Some weird and wonderful stuff happened with the genre then that proved that it was as fertile as any other, provided you took it away from Marvel and DC’s restricting “universe” approach.

I really enjoy genre diversity in comics, I do, but I notice that most “alternate” genres that get championed by most writers aren’t really that alternate at all– they’re all stuff that’s within a stone’s throw of superheroes, usually from another action or crime oriented sub-genre. I enjoy Criminal (in trades), but there’s so much overlap in the way crime books and superhero books are written now, it doesn’t feel that different aside from being at a much higher level of craft than is possible in the superhero machine. Actually, it’s at an absurdly high level of craft, and that’s why I read it at all. The subject matter was really something I had to get over.

I’m not familiar with all the other titles Brubaker mentions, but from what little I do know it seems possible they would be suffering from the same syndrome. I bet a lot of readers who aren’t passionately devoted to seeking out indies or specific creators for their own sake just get their action jollies from superheroes, and if they look at similar indies, it will only be in retrospect when the series is completed. Certainly when I want something “different” from the usual punchy-flighty books in comics form, I usually end up reading Kim Deitch or newspaper strips or manga… something really different.

(There’s plenty of room to argue my experience isn’t possibly normative, since a woman of my age and income bracket is hardly the primary target demographic for any kind of action comic book. But this theory is based at least in part of observation of forums, which are dominated by the primary comics-buying audience, and I think this behavior pattern may not be a product of gender at all, but a product of the sheer saturation of the monthly market with varying sorts of action titles.)

Ed, I actually think there’s a wider diversity of art styles, writing styles, and themes right now than in the 1980s. I’d have to sit down and really comprehensively look at the total field of publication, but there’s more going on in comics than ever from the standpoint of content. From the standpoint of publishers, I think you’re absolutely right: it’s a more constrained marketplace.

As for why people buy titles they’re not enjoying that much any more. The very point you raise, that floppies outsell and support trades, should hint at why that it is. It’s a serial medium, for the most part. The basic logic of reading serials encourages people to stick with titles to see “what happens next”–particularly because many of us old-timers know that a long-running title can suddenly spring to life in unheralded ways, and then it’s a chore to track down the previous three or four or five issues that you missed. It’s the same reason I buy a certain number of speculative fiction paperbacks on “spec”, so to speak: because if I miss something that I really turn out to like later on, or that others recommend to me, it may be enormously difficult to find that title.

Scalped is about the only current Vertigo title that I enjoy, and I’ve sampled them all over the last few months.

Criminal is awesome.

My local shop doesn’t always get a wide variety of indies. Most of what you’ve reviewed here are unfamiliar to me. I’d buy them online, however it’s very hard to pull the trigger on something like that sight-unseen. Comics be expensive. I do tend to sample an indy before I’ll sample yet another Marvel/DC.

>> I went back and thought about what you wrote, and I admit, I reacted a bit more harshly than it probably warranted, because of the fact that in Criminal, I think you’re preaching to the choir a bit.

Yeah, but you can’t always assume that the choir has heard the sermon before. I meet fans all the time who claim to be my biggest fan who have never heard of Criminal or read another book like it. But it wasn’t meant to be a thesis on the industry, anyway, just a little reminder in case anyone was paying attention. You spent more space on the topic than I did in your review.

In fact, if I may offer a criticism to you (hey, it’s the internet, everyone’s a critic, right?) — you kind of barely mention the comic in your review, and it seems like it was one of the issues you liked better, Greg. But you mostly complain about not liking Daredevil lately and rant about a paragraph on the text page. That’s not really much of a helpful review for your readers, is it?

>>I would still love to see a Brubaker romance comic! That would be awesome.

I have plans to do a Romance comic someday, too.

That’s very true, Ed. The problem with books I really like (and Criminal falls into that category) is that after a while, it becomes very difficult to write anything about them except “this is awesome.” With Criminal, it’s often more difficult, because of the format - we know bad things are going to happen, and I don’t want to spoil anything, so I often elide plot points so people who haven’t read it yet will have the chance to experience it. I’ve written before about Criminal being a difficult book to review, because it’s somewhat predictable, which sounds like a knock, but it’s not. We know what we’re going to get when we start, and it’s all about the way you present things. Even within the framework of “everything going to shit,” you’ve managed to write some very gripping stories.

I will say, for anyone who’s interested in reading it, that’s it’s excellent. And the use of black panels to show gaps in Teeg’s timeline is really nice, because it disorients us as much as Teeg. I don’t know if that’s your thing or Phillips’, but it was a cool touch.

Greg said:

“know in the 1980s there were more high-profile diverse comics, and I wonder how and why that went away.”
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Image. Image became so popular and big that only superheroes comic books could survive.
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The Golden Age of comics is 12. The Golden Age of diversity of subject matter was the 80s. And the Golden Age of good writing of comic books is the early to mid 2000s, although I think the quality of writing has been slipping in the last 2 years, which is probably leading to the recently noticed sales declines.
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Over 60 titles came out this week and you only bought 6? Elitist.

Criminal was fantastic. I loved the way that it was a done-in-one story yet at the same time managed to tie-in with things from the last issue and previous stories. The total black panels was a stroke of genius too, it’s easily the best book I read each month.

Hey Greg — Yeah, I used to write capsule movie reviews for a living, so I know what you mean. My editor was always on me to try to convey something about the films. It’s hardest when you neither love nor hate the subject, I think.

I like Criminal, but it’s really not my genre. I’d probably love to read a Brubaker romance comic. I really love the love stories in Locas, especially in The Death of Speedy — I think what sets those issues of Locas apart is partly the beautiful storytelling — telling as much as possible with as few panels as possible, contrasting the present time with flashbacks — and partly just that it’s about characters that seem cool, characters I’d like to hang out with. The current Locas cast seems kind of sad and old in comparison (eg Ray).

Hey Ed — I was wondering if you maybe got a chance to read this week’s Permanent Damage column by Steven Grant. He had some really interesting things to say about the Trades vs Singles debate, and it seems you disagree with him on all but a couple of points. I’d love to read more about your views on the subject.

(Oh, as Aubrey says in issue 2 - Morgana wants to kill Astrid because it strengthens Titania’s bloodline and hold on the throne.)

“confidently navigating his way through it”

Hahahahahaohchrist, if only you knew.

I love CRIMINAL, but I didn’t get a chance to pick up the newest issue yet. As such, I didn’t read the rant entire, just the part excerpted above.

I have to say that Ed is dead-on accurate if he’s only talking about the market for Diamond-distributed comic book specialty shops, but he’s completely off-base if you take into account that the LCS market is only a portion of the comics-reading audience.

People are often disappointed with the lack of diversity in the marketplace, but their disappointment is based on a percentage of all comic book readers. Everyone crying for parity should check out the graphic novel section of a bookstore… sure, you’ll see a lot of DC and Marvel superhero books, but you’ll see far more manga and alternative choices. Ditto if you get your comics from the public library.

Simply put, there’s nothing wrong with the comic book industry that leaving the comics shop can’t solve. Comic book specialty shops cater to the superhero-only crowd and ghettoize the entire artform to such an extent that even the people who enjoy the movies based on comics feel alienated. Comics should be a more open artform and I mean that commercially as well as artistically. Comics that are sold on newsstands and subways (like in Japan) or bookstores or libraries ARE more diverse.

Industry professionals rely on the LCS scene for their bread and butter, so there’s a reluctance to criticize. I can understand this and I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to bite the hand that feeds. But at the end of the day, I feel like the comic book industry is marginalizing itself through DISTRIBUTION methods and THAT is having an adverse affect on the creativity of the books being produced. Every time comics come in contact with a secular market, good things happen and every time comics hide in the “superhero clubhouse” it results in alienation. It’s kind of like complaining that you don’t have any friends if you’re too shy to leave your bedroom.

I’m not going to whine on and on. I went on a rant about the topic HERE.

While I’m on the topic of leaving the local comics shop, Marvel, DC, and everyone else needs to figure out how to distribute comics on the internet. It’s not optional anymore, it’s vital to the future of the industry. I know Marvel’s made recent attempts in this direction and I completely applaud that. MORE. That’s how young people get their media and it’s cheap. I, for one, can barely afford ANY comics at this point and I’m not the only twenty-something in my situation. Talking about “branching out” and “experimenting” in my buying habits is a tough sell when every unproven quantity costs a lot of money.

Anyway, hope that’s some food for thought. I often see creators talk about diversifying the content of comics. That’s a noble quest and I agree, but I can’t help but notice that there is a lot of diversity in comics as soon as you leave the shop and the more the industry gets out, the more interesting things get. Why not kill the Diamond system that’s choking the artform to death?

Thanks, Jamie. I knew I should have just kept the issues by my side when I wrote up the confounded review!

Well, it seems like you’re confident, Antony. Isn’t that what counts?

Greg said:

“But let’s be honest - Ellis is stuck in a “weird science” rut, and Brubaker is stuck in a “pulp noir” rut. ”

But are we being honest? Maybe to feelings, but not to fact. Fell, Crecy, Wolfskin, Gravel and Nextwave aren’t really “weird science.” Freakangels might touch on it soon, but it isn’t about body modification yet.

What writers would you say, that are of Ellis’s caliber (and are as prolific as him), display the kind of diversity that you wish Brubaker and Ellis would? I don’t think Morrison has done anything non-”love letter to the wonder of superheroes” in four years.

Also, I think having tropes is something that comes along with, you know, a) have a writing voice and b)making up your own stuff, instead of writing in the newest adventures of 40-60 year old characters.

Brad: There are very few writers who display diversity. I just mentioned Brubaker and Ellis because they’re in the rant. Those books you mention aren’t “weird science,” to be sure, but they display other marks of Ellis. One of the reasons I liked Crecy so much (even though I didn’t love it) was because Ellis was trying something out of his comfort zone. I wish he would do more of that.

So yes, I do wish other writers would be more diverse. I don’t mean to focus on Brubaker and Ellis. One of the reasons I’m a bit frustrated with Morrison is because he’s not more diverse.

Yeah, I’ve seen people use the term Ellis-ian when describing his work. And I’m not sure it’s a bad thing. At least he has created a unique voice, which is more than you can say for 90% of mainstream comics writers, even the better ones like Waid.

(There is also a significant difference between “stuck in a ‘weird science’ rut’” and “writing books that have other marks of Ellis.” How un-Ellis can he be? Especially with the volume of work he puts out.)

All that said, I’m not even interested in much of his current work Avatar work aside from Freakangels. I dropped Black Summer after two issues, and I haven’t bought a new Doktor Sleepless issue since the first one, but I’ll probably get the trade of that and Anna Mercury. But I always defend Ellis because he seems to be trying harder than any other mainstream writer (though is that a bit like being the fastest slug?).