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CSBG Archive

Snark Free Corner for 4/14

Welcome to the latest installment of your breath of snark free air!

Enjoy!

SNARK FREE DEBATE

Which Moore is appreciated more?

Two of Alan Moore’s most popular works are Watchmen and V for Vendetta – but which one is better?

Both works have iconic characters, to the point where I don’t think either one has an edge there.

V for Vendetta is a completely original work, while Watchmen is based on established characters, but I think we’ve established by now that a work being an analogue of a prior work does not necessarily mean that the analogue work is any less of a work.

V probably has the stronger ending of the two works.

Watchmen has more notable characters, as the cast is larger.

It’s a real close call, which is why I leave it to you all.

What do you folks think?

COVER THEME GAME

As always, here is the game. I show three covers. They all have something in common, whether it be a character, a trait all three characters share, locale, creator, SOMEthing. And it isn’t something obvious like “They all have prices!” “They all have logos!” “They all feature a man!” etc.

In addition, please note that you must have some familiarity with comic book history to correctly guess these comics. You cannot guess the connective theme just by looking at the covers solely, you must have some knowledge beyond just the covers.

A cool point to the first person to figure it out!

Good luck!

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SNARK FREE CHALLENGE

Who would win in a hot dog eating contest – the Hulk or the Blob?

THE COVER GAME

This week’s game is as follows…

Find me a cover (other than Birds of Prey) featuring Oracle on the cover (in the flesh, not the Oracle symbol).

Here is an example (which you can’t use! And you can’t use the other cover of Suicide Squad she was on)….

Remember, only one cover per commenter!

WHO IS IT?

Remember, tell me who it is and what number clue gave it away!

1. This creator worked with Will Eisner.
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2. This creator was in the US Marine Corps.
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3. This creator worked for Marvel during the 1970s.
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4. This creator worked for Crossgen.
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5. This creator briefly worked for DC Comics recently.

Who is it?

Well, that’s it for this installment of Snark Free Corner.

Hope you had fun!

38 Comments

Bernard the Poet

April 15, 2008 at 4:24 am

Which is better, V or Watchmen? My first reaction was that I didn’t want to play this game – it would be like choosing between my two children, I won’t do it. I can’t do it.

That was my first reaction, my second reaction was to plump for V for Vendetta, but only because of that old saying about ‘treating them mean to keep them keen.’ Reading V was hard work.

I used to have to walk for miles to buy Warrior magazine, and then – often as not – I found that it hadn’t arrived yet. It cost a whopping 50p for six black and white pages, (okay, to be fair, you also got six pages of Marvelman and five other strips) and just when it was reaching its climax, the comic folded and I had to wait another four years for DC to print the ending.

In comparison, Watchmen was an easy lay – it turned up on time, in colour and in 28 page bites.

And no, I don’t have a favourite child.

SanctumSanctorumComix

April 15, 2008 at 4:26 am

V for Vendetta.

I’ve long loved BOTH of these works, but as great as WATCHMEN is, V has always been my favorite of the two.

I know I should go into detail as to WHY, but there are too many reasons.
It resonates to me far more deeply, and speaks of many layers of humanity.
It’s uplifting and has lessons that are learned (either by overt “teaching” or by “historical backdrop”).

Evey is the reader-viewpoint character, a regular downtrodden human being striving to become more, and as such we each can experience the story far more closely than we can Watchmen.

~P~
P-TOR

SanctumSanctorumComix

April 15, 2008 at 4:28 am

WHO IS IT?

Mike Ploog?
(It’s the DC question that is throwing doubt my way, otherwise, all things point to Ploog)

~P~
P-TOR

Who Is It? Mike Ploog on 1, confirmed by 3-5

SanctumSanctorumComix

April 15, 2008 at 4:38 am

Oops. Forgot to tell WHICH clue “gave it away”.

# 1. The Will Eisner connection.

Then each one reinforced my belief (until the last one. I’m not much of a DC reader these days, and that caused me some doubt. But, I know that he worked for DC – well, WARNER Bros, anyway – doing SUPERMAN & BATMAN cartoons in the 60′s/70′s).

Sorry for the omission.

~P~
P-TOR

Cover game: Batman #511 http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=55630&zoom=4

And for Sanctum: The recent DC work was on a couple of issues of The Spirit. I think he was announced as a regular artist at one point, but only did two issues (14 and 15) before being replaced by Paul Smith.

SanctumSanctorumComix

April 15, 2008 at 5:03 am

OH?
That’s AWESOME.

(Ploog on the SPIRIT? Talk about coming full-circle.)

I’m going to have to go pick those up (AND the Paul Smith ones too. BIG fan of P.M.S. – er… Paul M. Smith. Not the ‘yknow… OTHER thing).

;-)

Thanks RobM!

~P~
P-TOR

Watchmen for me is far better than V for Vendetta – and I think Watchmen has a much stronger ending. They’re both good though.

Cover Theme Game : Each features a character who “died” during the Battle for Bloodhaven. Spellbinder, Technocrat and Major Disaster all fell there, though given that the nature of comic-book death, I wouldn’t be surprised if they all come back soon.

Watchmen was cool, brilliant and redefined the agenda of comics. It’s rightfully considered the zenith of the medium.

V For Vendetta changed the way I think and (along with other things I read and experienced around the time when it came out from DC in 1988-89) ultimately changed my life.

V For Vendetta therefore wins.

I’m going to go with V for Vendetta as well, even though I like Watchmen more, because Watchmen requires that you have some experience with superhero fiction to fully appreciate it, while V stands fully on it’s own.

Hulk wins over Blob. Just because Blob is a big boy doesn’t mean he can eat quicker, or eat more…. just keeps more weight on…. Hulk has an increased mass, increased size, increased stomach and jaw….. Heck, increased throat, he could just throw them down his throat and not even chew them…..

Cover theme – Sunglasses! 8-)

As far as Alan Moore… I enjoyed _Watchmen_ more, but thought _V for Vendetta_ was the better work. It was more thoughtful, and dealt with bigger ideas (IMO).

I kind of got bored of V for Vendetta about half way through and have yet to finish it off, I will go back to it someday, so for me Watchmen comes out on top.

V For Vendetta, based on influence on my life (read it when I was about 17).

I found Watchmen more engrossing, and reread it every few years. Dave Gibbons’ art is more appealing to me (although David Lloyd’s art was also very good). While V tells one story (mostly), Watchmen has many different character arcs, the text pages delving into its world’s history through its characters, and moments that have stayed with me since I first read it. I like V, but I love watchmen.

Hulk smash puny hot dogs (and Annoying Fat Man).

Matt Lazorwitz

April 15, 2008 at 7:01 am

Cover Theme Game: All three covers feature someone who has sold/has had their soul sold to the devil: Spellbinder II, Faust, Major Disaster.

Cover Game: Batman # 619 A

http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=203831&zoom=2

Haven’t the fans already spoken on Watchmen/V? Watchmen has had a lot more attention paid to it and clearly trumped V in long-term sales. Considering they’re both “intellectual comics”, not your normal spandex heroes, I think it’s fair to say you’re comparing apples to apples. Watchmen all the way.

Hulk wins due to his powers. I’m not 100% sure on the mainstream version, but the ultimate version almost instantly adapts to his environment. Assuming the same for the mainstream version, he adapts to the volume of food as it is ingested. “NO ONE IS HUNGRIER THAN HULK!!!!!”

Only read Watchmen and watched the filn based on V, so can’t decided between the two comic books. Therefor, for now I’m siding with Watchmen.

Cover game – Suicide Squad #63:
http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/3385/400/3385_4_63.jpg

Actually, I’m one of those few people who doesn’t “get” V for Vendetta. I thought the premise and the ambition were interesting, but I feel that he over-reached his grasp. With Watchmen, however, he was completely in control of his powers– as a story-teller, a world-builder, in characterization, and just plain as a writer.

I think part of that might also be the format– V’s ultra-short chapters lends it to having a more piecemeal feeling, while Watchmen “works” better, at least from my point of view, as one whole.

I think that Watchmen is a more complete work in the comic medium, even though I think Moore’s storytelling was better in V.

The art in Watchmen is what raises it above V for Vendetta, and is often overlooked next to Alan Moore’s writing.

Hulk would win. Blob would get tired first.

I’d give Watchmen over the edge over V for Vendetta, due to the book’s structure; Alan Moore created a number of sub-plots and side articles, often using non-comic book methods of telling his story that fleshed out the main plot; magazine interviews, ultra-right-wing publications, that sort of thing. V was brilliant, but Watchmen was breaking the rules and rewriting them.

For the cover game: Nightwing #38, which was set during No Man’s Land and helped establish Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon as a couple. God I miss those two!
http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/nightwing/38-1.jpg

I’ll vote V For Vendetta over Watchmen any day, although, y’know, they’re still two of the best 10 graphic novels ever made, so there’s not a big gap between the two.

Watchmen obviously had a bigger impact on the medium — but V4F had a much bigger impact on ME. I can still remember the electricity that book filled me with when I was reading it for the first time. Watchmen was more of a detached impressment; it’s absolutely brilliant, and it’s kind of a headier book, while V4V really goes for the gut.

So yeah, V4V is the best graphic novel Alan Moore’s ever written (yes, it tops From Hell for me too)… but he still outdid everything he’d ever done with Promethea!

Who is it? Mike Ploog. Got it on # 3, was completely sure by #5.

I’d say WATCHMEN holds together better. V FOR VENDETTA, you can tell was a serialized work with a huge whopping gap in the middle. Good, but sort of rough.

The Mad Monkey

April 15, 2008 at 1:07 pm

Cover Theme Game…

Could it be as simple as a character on all the covers is wearing some form of sunglasses?

The Mad Monkey

April 15, 2008 at 1:10 pm

Oops…I didn’t notice Allan Lappin beat me to it.
Silly me…

Cover challenge: Does Underworld Unleashed: Patterns of Fear count?

http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=57930&zoom=4

It has Barbara AND Batgirl on it.

I enjoyed both but I’m going to have to say V for Vendetta. The art’s more fluid and cinematic, and I think it has a stronger story. It also reads incredibly well in TPB form.

I found Watchmen to be overrated in that I read incredible amounts of praise for it, and it couldn’t possibly have lived up to my expectations.

V has better moments (I love that scene where Evey asks who said “Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici” and V says, “Nobody you would know. A German gentleman named Dr. Faust.” And then you have that great, unsettling panel of V smiling, and he says, and this is the only balloon in the panel, “He made a deal too.” THAT is one of the best uses ever of foreshadowing. I also use the phrase as the motto for a comic news site I run — click on my name to visit).

I don’t mean to be overcritical of Watchmen, because I enjoyed it a lot, but V for Vendetta has to be my favorite.

Can I vote for MIRACLEMAN? I’m another one who didn’t really get V. I read it once when DC first published it, and wasn’t inspired to read it again. I know I’m missing something, and I should read it again, but I’ve never found it urgent to do so.

OTOH, I can’t count how many times I’ve read WATCHMEN. So many times, that I was shocked by your question.

Hulk wins the eating contest, because the angrier he gets, the hungrier he gets???!

From Hell Is better than them both, but if I had to choose I’d say V For Vendetta by a hair.

Which Hulk and which Blob? If we’re talking the iconic versions of each I’d say Blob (even though I’m a huge Hulk fan). Hulk would get bored eating huge amounts of anything other than beans, his favorite.

Watchmen is far better in my view; the characters have far more depth, and is better paced; Vendetta loses momentum just after the half way mark as we get endless speeches from V explaining the themes. Watchmen trusts the reader to work out the themes on their own!

Hulk vs. The Blob? I say neither. The Kingpin would trounce both of them. He actually got that big by eating, the other two didn’t.

OK, this isn’t much a theme next to the whole selling-your-soul thing, but all three covers have people who have been members of both the Justice League and the Outsiders: Batman, Geo-Force, Green Arrow.

The three covers theme: each cover has a character that died during Infinite Crisis:

Batman cover: Spellbinder
Outsiders cover: Technocrat
Justice League Elite cover: Major Disaster

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