Indeed, it’s as much as one’s own expectations and perceptions of the characters / story as it is the craftsmanship of the author. My expectations exceeded Waid’s execution (and oft times exceed that of most of the writers at Marvel or DC, for that matter). Does this mean they’re bad writers? No. I know they’re trying, within the parameters of their employment with either company.

And you are quite welcome to enjoy the corny bad puns that wink to 40 to 60 year old pop culture, Kurt. Some of us prefer different styles humor and character interaction, though. And I don’t see why all of the Marvel / DC superhero comics have to be targeted to suit you, and none to the rest of us. Just because the writers are geeks who are obsessed with continuity effluvia? (And even then, they really aren’t, because they all just chuck whatever it is they personally don’t agree with and do whatever the hell they want.)

My Nerd is definitely the stronger of the two voices, being much older and more persuasive. When I say things like “I will always buy Uncanny X-Men, no matter what, because as long as I’ve read comics, I’ve read that book” that’s my nerd speaking. The Visionary is the voice that convinced me to buy Iron Fist, even though before that series I had no connection to or interest in Iron Fist, or the voice that kept me reading and enjoying the Order even when it was clear it was doomed to premature cancellation and the characters would likely fade to oblivion.

The Nerd is what keeps me buying things like Secret Invasion and Final Crisis, because I still have “to know” what the big happenings in their respective universes are, but assuages the guilt the Visionary feels by pointing out that Morrison is writing Final Crisis, and that the Nerd has gotten relaxed in recent years so that I don’t need to buy every tie-in and crossover story

The Nerd isn’t always bad though; I read Age of Bronze (a quality of comic the Visionary fully approves of) because I was a nerd about Greek mythology and the story of the fall of Troy long before I was a comic book nerd.

Your use of Star Trek as an example was also personally interesting to me, as I’ve always had an odd relationship with the Star Trek “expanded universe” of novels and comics (where continuity, as you say, is pretty loose) and the Star Wars expanded universe (where continuity is much more rigid and contradictions fewer, or addressed more often). My inner Nerd can go with the flow of Star Trek in a way that would enrage him if Star Wars adopted the same attitude.

1. “At which point it dawned on me that Didio isn’t really doing anything other than reacting to the market. Which is, y’know, his job.”

No, it’s only part of his job, the part that’s concerned with preserving what you’ve already got. Other parts include expanding the market and creating new markets. Which you can’t do by appealing only to already existing, long-time fans.

2. Your Nerd vs. Visionary dichotomy has some appeal, but it seems too simple. Where does your fondness for Haney’s Brave & Bold fit in? It’s not, as you point out, continuity obsessed, but it’s all about cool team-ups between characters you already know but don’t often get to see together. The former seems un-nerdish; the latter nerdish, and neither seems particularly “visionary.” Still, the appeal of Haney’s B&B and the appeal of “event” comics seem very different: they don’t necessarily both appeal to same nerd. So who’s sitting on your third ( 8^) )shoulder, saying, “I just want good stories, told straightforwardly, that are consistent with broad truths about a character [e.g., Bruce Wayne's parents were murdered by criminals and so he became Batman to wage war on crime] but do not hinge on massive knowledge of history and trivia?”

The dichotomy between the “inner nerd” (or perhaps inner child as well?) and “visionary” was pretty interesting, Greg. My Inner Child / Nerd typically only cares about getting back issues – the ones that were ‘his’ from times past that I lost over the many moves as a military brat. The stuff that I didn’t get to discover the first time around. And generally, my Visionary Self is okay with that. Probably because much of that material predates the “event” mentality of comics production at the Big Two.

B&B only got picked up because I’d been jonesing for new Perez story art and I had hoped against all hope that DC had enough brains to remember that a book like B&B is supposed to be one-shot or two-part stories, not the decompressed ‘writing for the trade’ style of writing.

That being said, it’s not like I never see anything worth my time. DC does try. Matt Wagner’s Batman minis in recent year and Englehart / Rogers’ DARK DETECTIVE mini were enjoyable enough. I may get the GOTHAM AFTER MIDNIGHT series in TPB when it comes out, depending on what I think of it as singles. I might try THE WAR THAT TIME FORGOT or MADAME XANADU or that Mike Kunkel version of Shazam. No guarantees, but at least it’s something to consider. That’s more than Marvel has to offer me these days.

It was almost forgivable when discussing 52, because the timing in 52 was so odd that the experimentation with pacing was pretty interesting. But it should have stopped there. Even if one thinks one is producing and selling sheer formulaic crap, one ought not to talk about it in formula terms to the readers.

I picked it up because it was George Perez doing the art, and dropped it at #12 (Jerry Ordway did a nice job filling in those last two issues).

But the stories have been horrid. What it boils down to is Mark Waid writes a lot of plot that doesn’t make sense to me (Why should Wally and Linda take the kids to Dr. Caulder and the Doom Patrol? Aren’t there enough super-scientists buddies in the JLA, Titans, Star Labs, etc. for Wally to turn to first? And if they have and turned up goose eggs, then why doesn’t Waid just say so for those of us who don’t buy every DCU book? Oh, and I’m sorry, but the whole Nth Metal / White Dwarf Matter canceling each other out for Hawkman & Atom and Choi’s solution in #9 was horrific.) , and he’s been writing incredibly bad fanboy level dialogue (Hal Jordan’s internal monologues about Supergirl in #2; Blue Beetle’s weird “sir” speeches to Batman in #3 & #4; “That Cro-Magnon stole my flight ring!”, “Faster than a speeding Nth Bullet” and “Holy hamstrings!”, among a variety of other bad lines in #5; the Doom Patrol “Munsters” gags in #8).

So okay, maybe it’s not at bad as COUNTDOWN (I wouldn’t know seeing as I wouldn’t touch that with a ten foot pole while wearing a radiation suit). But is certainly isn’t a shining example of good comics writing, either.

Back in the 1980s it used to bother me a lot that the only exposure the general public had to superheroes was the Adam West Batman TV show and the Superfriends cartoon. But now, after the X-Men movies, after the Heroes TV show, after Batman Begins and the Bruce Timm cartoon, I think the general public is more aware that there is more to superheroes than Adam West.

So it doesn’t really bother me anymore if they produce a superhero cartoon for children. I won’t watch it, and I still miss Bruce Timm’s style, but it doesn’t bother me. I wish it good luck.

This goes a long way towards explaining why the only DC titles I’ve bought in the last five years were Ross and Braithwaite’s Justice, Smith’s Shazam: Monster Society… and Waid and Perez’s B&B, which I’ve been enjoying DESPITE the continuity stuff, not because of it. And I haven’t bought a Marvel title since Busiek and Davis were doing Avengers.

I’ve been assuming that it was just an age thing, that I’m no longer the demographic the Big Two are aiming at just as I’m not the demographic contemporary movies, TV shows or recording artists are aiming at. Now I’m not so sure. Maybe the problem IS them, not me. My ego would like to think so anyway.

Oh, and for the record, I can’t wait to watch the B&B cartoon. I’m pretty sure I’ll love it.

i had only recently come back to comics after a time away, so it was a bit disorienting to see the status quo of the Man of Steel-mandated continuity i had left being upset–especially without the benefit of a full, new, “official” origin story. but once i got past the initial shock, i was cool with it. at that point, my Nerd didn’t exactly die, but he kinda packed up and went home. it was liberating.

i think that’s why the first three pages of All-Star Superman #1 resonated with me the way they did; it seemed to say “look, we don’t definitively know all the specifics and minutiae of Superman’s origin… and ultimately, it doesn’t matter that much. these are the broad strokes that define the character, and they are what counts.”

in some way, i felt like Marvel did the same thing, though it’s more centered around characterization than plot (although they’ve re-jiggered plot elements a lot, too). characters don’t seem to have fixed personalities; they change to serve whatever the story is supposed to be… and i’m not too bothered as long as the broad strokes remain consistent and the story is good.

Maybe that’s why I buy so few comics these days…

I do agree, there will be a backlash against all this non-stop crossover mess. Eventually.

As for B&B, Waid can sometimes pander to continuity obsessed fanboys. Maybe it’s not what the market represents. Either way, i will miss the beautiful Perez art…

As for the cartoon, my only gripe is that I’m not sure the current Blue Beetle will fit in with the retro style they seem to have chosen for the animation. But if that’s for only one ep, then it shouldn’t be an issue…

So, if you are not really into the flavour of the month, the worst you have to look forward to is a couple issues with odd guest stars. Might be good, might be bad, might make sense as a stand alone, might not. But really, you run into an off issue or two with or without a crossover going on. And if you are reading the core series already, well no problem at all. If you ignored all the tie-ins, the recent Hulk crossover was just another Hulk story. And everything tended to go back to status-quo in a fairly self contained way.

DC can’t keep it clean. If it doesn’t involve the big three, their entire supporting casts and the entire past, present and future cast of the Titans in individual rolls DC doesn’t seem to think it counts as a crossover. And to justify it they have to make it ‘count’. They do this by killing off random second and third string titles.

If I’m not big on DCs current crossover I can’t ignore it like I can with Marvel’s. It has gotten to the point where I am avoiding picking up DC titles that I think I would normally like out of fear that the whole thing it going to go sideways as soon as the next crossover comes around.

Seriously Greg, you can focus on what DC is doing, but not many people seem to realise that DC is only following Marvel’s lead in this regard.

Oh, I agree. It all started with Marvel — Omar did a nice job of summing all that part up. But the “Sightings” logo announcement is what puts it over the top for me. I mean, my God. They might as well issue a flowchart with each book at that point.

…come to think of it, I think the final issue of Zero Hour DID actually come with some kind of a fold-out flowchart.

And on that note, the 6-issue Legion story that just ended in Action Comics was fantastic. They used “the” Legion we remembered and I ate it right up.

Point One: Man, people bitching about the the new kiddie Batman cartoon made me embarrassed. Embarrassed for them, embarrassed for me that I’m sharing a hobby with them, embarrassed for me that I’m sharing a PLANET with them, embarrassed for their parents, their grandparents…. And their hypothetical-but-not-likely children.

I swear, every, single, argument against this show I heard boiled down to ” Every Batman product must appeal to ME or it’s a personal insult.”

Do these people cry themselves to sleep that Batman underoos don’t come in 42-D? How selfish, how stupid, how worthless does your life have to be that the very existence of a Batman cartoon aimed at young children makes you angry?

And then fans being all stupid makes me angry, because, well, I expect decent behavior from the groups I associate with.

This, as I tell the kids on my bus, is why I drink.

Point two: I collect team-up books, so I’ll probably (almost definitely) get all the new Brave and the Bold issues SOMEWHERE down the line.

Is it wrong of me to hope that a book gets cancelled, because that leads to back-issues turning up in the three for a buck box? It’s not good enough for me to pay three bucks an issue, even to satisfy my collector’s itch. And I only need like 125 more team-up books! (OK, I couldn’t resist the Wonder Woman Power Girl team-up, or the one with the Silent Knight. I (heart) the Silent Knight.)

But, in my defense, I TOTALLY wish Waid and Perez all the best in their future, not Brave and the Bold, endeavors.

Point three: Countdown counted.

But it also doesn’t seem to be good for the DC line as a whole. I hear a LOT of annoyed fans. And DC’s getting slaughtered by Marvel in sales, if rumors are true.

Maybe the stuff that counts has to have a certain level of quality?

Then again I’m expecting a crossover backlash huge sales crash at Marvel any day now. I predict a cyclical alternation between more editorial/continuity driven books and more creator driven books, ala
nu-Marvel. People get sick of having to buy everything that counts. And (I predict) leave comics en masse.

Point Four: Brave and the Bold, especially the Haney/Adams/Cardy/first 25 or so Aparo issues + # 150 is some glorious, glorious comics.

Point Five: I don’t think my nerd and my visionary are in competition.

Or maybe I don’t think visionarilly about comics. Since I’m personally happy with comics in general right now, I don’t look too/worry about the future. And my nerd is pretty good at connecting pointless trivia into human narrative… Get me wound up on the Justice League and we may start with an explanation of the Seven Soldiers of Victory arc from JLA 100, but let me talk long enough and I’ll be bitching about how DC fired most of their great sixties writer because they wanted health care. (Fuck DC.)

I guess my general view of American comics as of a historical narrative. (And current narrative.) So in order to get the broadest grasp of the form in all it’s complexities, I want to be semi-familiar with everything. I don’t really have a nostalgic attachment to my nerd-dom.

I AM really emotionally invested, mind. Note complaints about comics fans and historical treatments of creators above. But I don’t care about what THEY did to Spider-man’s marriage or if Manga, or some derivation thereof, completely replaces American comics. All part of the tapestry. (And the latter might be really interesting.) Changes in the comics medium and treatment of characters doesn’t bother me. People being assholes bothers me a lot.

Point Six I really shout re-watch Star Trek TOS. I think I missed the one with Seven. And Kitty! in! Spaaaaaccccccce! really appeals to me.