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	<title>Comments on: Lorendiac&#039;s Lists: Who Knew Bruce Was Batman, Pre-Crisis? (2nd Draft)</title>
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	<description>Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good!</description>
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		<title>By: KAM</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-695741</link>
		<dc:creator>KAM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-695741</guid>
		<description>Duela Dent aka The Joker&#039;s Daughter/Harlequin/&amp; several other identities - figured it out in Batman Family #9.

The Elongated Man - Technically Batman told him in Detective Comics #331, but Bats only did that knowing that EM would lose his memory of everything he learned at that time.

Hawkman &amp; Hawkgirl - Brave &amp; The Bold #70 -  This story showed that Batman did know Hawkman &amp; Hawkgirl&#039;s secret identities &amp; I&#039;d assume they knew his because of the Absorbascon when they came to Earth (they&#039;d just have to concentrate about it to bring up the info.)

Ka-Thar - World&#039;s Finest Comics #81 - a historian from 5956 knows who they are.

Lance Bruner - Brave &amp; The Bold #83 (the &quot;Punish not my Evil Son&quot; story already mentioned) Lance discovered the Batcave &amp; figured it out.

Mr. Jupiter - While not specifically stated, he had to know by Teen Titans #35. In that story the Titans &amp; Mr. Jupiter are in Italy. Robin appears out of costume &amp; Mr. Jupiter calls him Robin. Now in Teen Titans #25 when Mr. Jupiter first appeared Robin recognizes Mr. Jupiter as a friend of Bruce Wayne &amp; would doubtless know who Dick is.

Doubtful Cases &amp; Near Misses

Aunt Harriet - Detective Comics #351 - she found the elevator to the Batcave &amp; believed Bruce &amp; Dick were B&amp;R, but by the end of the story they convinced her she was mistaken.

Balthazar T. Balthazar aka The Collector - Brave &amp; The Bold #70 - his computer figured it out, but later Bats &amp; Hawkman confused the heck out of him.

Commissioner Gordon - Batman Family #11 - while not explicitly stated the story has Gordon putting the clues together &amp; ends implying that he knows the truth.

Governer Andrew Warner - Batman #165 - after being mutated into a future man he gave clues to a way that he could be defeated, clues that only his friend Bruce Wayne would have known so Bats suspected he had learned the secret telepathically, but didn&#039;t know for sure. Warner was sent off in a rocket in suspended animation.

Elwood Pearson &amp; Mr. Incognito - Batman #173 - Pearson had a special camera &amp; mirror that could show what someone looked like under a mask. Both saw Bruce &amp; Dick&#039;s faces, but didn&#039;t recognize them. B&amp;R hoped they didn&#039;t have time to commit their faces to memory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duela Dent aka The Joker's Daughter/Harlequin/&amp; several other identities - figured it out in Batman Family #9.</p>
<p>The Elongated Man - Technically Batman told him in Detective Comics #331, but Bats only did that knowing that EM would lose his memory of everything he learned at that time.</p>
<p>Hawkman &amp; Hawkgirl - Brave &amp; The Bold #70 -  This story showed that Batman did know Hawkman &amp; Hawkgirl's secret identities &amp; I'd assume they knew his because of the Absorbascon when they came to Earth (they'd just have to concentrate about it to bring up the info.)</p>
<p>Ka-Thar - World's Finest Comics #81 - a historian from 5956 knows who they are.</p>
<p>Lance Bruner - Brave &amp; The Bold #83 (the "Punish not my Evil Son" story already mentioned) Lance discovered the Batcave &amp; figured it out.</p>
<p>Mr. Jupiter - While not specifically stated, he had to know by Teen Titans #35. In that story the Titans &amp; Mr. Jupiter are in Italy. Robin appears out of costume &amp; Mr. Jupiter calls him Robin. Now in Teen Titans #25 when Mr. Jupiter first appeared Robin recognizes Mr. Jupiter as a friend of Bruce Wayne &amp; would doubtless know who Dick is.</p>
<p>Doubtful Cases &amp; Near Misses</p>
<p>Aunt Harriet - Detective Comics #351 - she found the elevator to the Batcave &amp; believed Bruce &amp; Dick were B&amp;R, but by the end of the story they convinced her she was mistaken.</p>
<p>Balthazar T. Balthazar aka The Collector - Brave &amp; The Bold #70 - his computer figured it out, but later Bats &amp; Hawkman confused the heck out of him.</p>
<p>Commissioner Gordon - Batman Family #11 - while not explicitly stated the story has Gordon putting the clues together &amp; ends implying that he knows the truth.</p>
<p>Governer Andrew Warner - Batman #165 - after being mutated into a future man he gave clues to a way that he could be defeated, clues that only his friend Bruce Wayne would have known so Bats suspected he had learned the secret telepathically, but didn't know for sure. Warner was sent off in a rocket in suspended animation.</p>
<p>Elwood Pearson &amp; Mr. Incognito - Batman #173 - Pearson had a special camera &amp; mirror that could show what someone looked like under a mask. Both saw Bruce &amp; Dick's faces, but didn't recognize them. B&amp;R hoped they didn't have time to commit their faces to memory.</p>
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		<title>By: troy p pierce</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-660909</link>
		<dc:creator>troy p pierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 10:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-660909</guid>
		<description>[...] Grayson is listed under ???Nightwing.??? Or, if the character was long dead or otherwise had ...http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/Monday Poem ,,, Before the Ink Dries Jim Culleny When suits enter the woods the animals flee. When [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Grayson is listed under ???Nightwing.??? Or, if the character was long dead or otherwise had ...http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/Monday Poem ,,, Before the Ink Dries Jim Culleny When suits enter the woods the animals flee. When [...]</p>
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		<title>By: wwk5d</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-660888</link>
		<dc:creator>wwk5d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 05:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-660888</guid>
		<description>BTW, Lorendiac, came across your website and I loved your &#039;version&#039; of &#039;Sins Past&#039;. It cracked me up. Now whenever I read a scene where a character is acting stupidly, I pretend they were going to the the right and smart thing, but then along came JQ/Didio/the writer and beating them senseless with a mallet. The &#039;Hush&#039; parody you did was also good, but the &#039;Sins Past&#039; was awesome. Can&#039;t wait to see you version of, say, &#039;One More Day&#039; ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, Lorendiac, came across your website and I loved your 'version' of 'Sins Past'. It cracked me up. Now whenever I read a scene where a character is acting stupidly, I pretend they were going to the the right and smart thing, but then along came JQ/Didio/the writer and beating them senseless with a mallet. The 'Hush' parody you did was also good, but the 'Sins Past' was awesome. Can't wait to see you version of, say, 'One More Day' <img src='http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Lorendiac</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-660827</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorendiac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 19:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-660827</guid>
		<description>That &quot;oops&quot; was supposed to be in italics, but HTML tags don&#039;t come naturally to me these days. (Sigh.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That "oops" was supposed to be in italics, but HTML tags don't come naturally to me these days. (Sigh.)</p>
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		<title>By: Lorendiac</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-660825</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorendiac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 19:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-660825</guid>
		<description>Alex -- actually, even before I read your comment, it occurred to me that Brother Blood and at least some of his underlings in the 1980s probably knew . . . because Brother Blood definitely learned that Dick Grayson was the other identity of &quot;Robin&quot; (later Nightwing). And beyond that, I realized there were probably other people from Titans continuity who &quot;implicitly&quot; should have known, although the only ones I had thought to mention were Dick&#039;s fellow Titans, and Donna&#039;s husband Terry, and Deathstroke -- who was Terra&#039;s secret partner as she infiltrated them. 

Come to think of it, I forgot to mention Slade and Addie&#039;s kid who eventually became a Titan in good standing, Jericho, didn&#039;t I? [i]Oops![/i]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex -- actually, even before I read your comment, it occurred to me that Brother Blood and at least some of his underlings in the 1980s probably knew . . . because Brother Blood definitely learned that Dick Grayson was the other identity of "Robin" (later Nightwing). And beyond that, I realized there were probably other people from Titans continuity who "implicitly" should have known, although the only ones I had thought to mention were Dick's fellow Titans, and Donna's husband Terry, and Deathstroke -- who was Terra's secret partner as she infiltrated them. </p>
<p>Come to think of it, I forgot to mention Slade and Addie's kid who eventually became a Titan in good standing, Jericho, didn't I? [i]Oops![/i]</p>
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		<title>By: alex</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-660673</link>
		<dc:creator>alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 23:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-660673</guid>
		<description>Adeline Kane and Steve Dayton.
Following the Wolfman/Titans logic, these two cast members would know.  This is also quite dangerous, considering Addie&#039;s involvement with HIVE and Dayton&#039;s role as Crimemaster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adeline Kane and Steve Dayton.<br />
Following the Wolfman/Titans logic, these two cast members would know.  This is also quite dangerous, considering Addie's involvement with HIVE and Dayton's role as Crimemaster.</p>
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		<title>By: neil stein</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-660466</link>
		<dc:creator>neil stein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 12:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-660466</guid>
		<description>[...] this six ways from Sunday, but that has nothing to do with how things stood in the early-to-mid ...http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/Clinton delegate candidatesThe complete list of eligible Clinton candidates, 3rd or 4th hand. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this six ways from Sunday, but that has nothing to do with how things stood in the early-to-mid ...http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/Clinton delegate candidatesThe complete list of eligible Clinton candidates, 3rd or 4th hand. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Mayket</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-660066</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Mayket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 23:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-660066</guid>
		<description>The Aurakle that became Halo possessed the body of Violet Harper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Aurakle that became Halo possessed the body of Violet Harper.</p>
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		<title>By: Lorendiac</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-660052</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorendiac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 22:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-660052</guid>
		<description>Jeff R. -- yeah, I should have remembered about that gender-reversed world. A few years ago when I was working on my lengthy Timeline listing First (and sometimes Final) appearances of each of DC&#039;s Supergirls (and Superwomen, etc.), someone called that story to my attention. Shortly after that, I found that issue in the bins of a local shop and paid a few bucks for it. But when I was reacting to the question about what Mxy knew or didn&#039;t know, earlier today, Mxy&#039;s telltale mistake in that old story just slipped my mind. 

(Although looking back on it, I have to conclude that if Pre-COIE Mxy didn&#039;t know who Superman was, it could only mean he didn&#039;t really &lt;I&gt;want&lt;/I&gt; to know!) 

Bernard the Poet -- about that gender-reversed world which you want to see again . . . did you see how Jeph Loeb gave us glimpses of something very similar in the last story arc he did for the &quot;Superman/Batman&quot; title? (I imagine he too has read that old Pre-COIE story, because his version also had Mxy involved in all the weirdness happening in that story arc.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff R. -- yeah, I should have remembered about that gender-reversed world. A few years ago when I was working on my lengthy Timeline listing First (and sometimes Final) appearances of each of DC's Supergirls (and Superwomen, etc.), someone called that story to my attention. Shortly after that, I found that issue in the bins of a local shop and paid a few bucks for it. But when I was reacting to the question about what Mxy knew or didn't know, earlier today, Mxy's telltale mistake in that old story just slipped my mind. </p>
<p>(Although looking back on it, I have to conclude that if Pre-COIE Mxy didn't know who Superman was, it could only mean he didn't really <i>want</i> to know!) </p>
<p>Bernard the Poet -- about that gender-reversed world which you want to see again . . . did you see how Jeph Loeb gave us glimpses of something very similar in the last story arc he did for the "Superman/Batman" title? (I imagine he too has read that old Pre-COIE story, because his version also had Mxy involved in all the weirdness happening in that story arc.)</p>
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		<title>By: Omar Karindu</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-660050</link>
		<dc:creator>Omar Karindu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 22:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-660050</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;This story was also scripted by Bob Haney, who I think we can assume didnâ€™t share Denny Oâ€™Neilâ€™s hang-ups about people knowing Batmanâ€™s secret.&lt;/I&gt;

At that point in time, there&#039;s not much evidence that &lt;I&gt;Denny&lt;/I&gt; had his later hang-ups about people knowing the identity.  After all, O&#039;Neil created Talia and Ra&#039;s as recurring characters who specifically knew The Secret, had the Shadow know it, and probably one or two more examples I&#039;m forgetting without looking back up at the list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This story was also scripted by Bob Haney, who I think we can assume didnâ€™t share Denny Oâ€™Neilâ€™s hang-ups about people knowing Batmanâ€™s secret.</i></p>
<p>At that point in time, there's not much evidence that <i>Denny</i> had his later hang-ups about people knowing the identity.  After all, O'Neil created Talia and Ra's as recurring characters who specifically knew The Secret, had the Shadow know it, and probably one or two more examples I'm forgetting without looking back up at the list.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard the Poet</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-659972</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard the Poet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 16:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-659972</guid>
		<description>Jeff R. I loved that gender reversed world. Is my memory playing tricks on me, or did the male Black Canary continue to wear the fishnet stockings? 

DC should definitely bring it back. It deserves its own series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff R. I loved that gender reversed world. Is my memory playing tricks on me, or did the male Black Canary continue to wear the fishnet stockings? </p>
<p>DC should definitely bring it back. It deserves its own series.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard the Poet</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-659966</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard the Poet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 16:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-659966</guid>
		<description>In the Senator&#039;s Been Shot (Brave and the Bold no. 85), Batman reveals his secret identity to the psychiatrist, Dr Edmund Cathcart. The story ends with Cathcart vowing to undergo a series of self-hypnosis sessions to wipe the information from his memory, but we never see if he does this or not. 

This story was also scripted by Bob Haney, who I think we can assume didn&#039;t share Denny O&#039;Neil&#039;s hang-ups about people knowing Batman&#039;s secret. 

This may not be the place to write this, but whilst going through my old Brave and the Bold issues, I couldn&#039;t help but notice thirteenth entry for your 12 Tricks for Keeping a Superhero Young. In B &amp; B # 84, The Angel, the Rock and the Cowl, Batman teams up with Sgt Rock. The story is set in the present (1969) with flashbacks to June, 1944, but Batman remains ageless throughout while Rock and the evil von Stauffen are visibly older in the present-day section of the story. 

Now I can see that Haney was trying to create a fable, but when I was a kid, it irritated the hell out of me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the Senator's Been Shot (Brave and the Bold no. 85), Batman reveals his secret identity to the psychiatrist, Dr Edmund Cathcart. The story ends with Cathcart vowing to undergo a series of self-hypnosis sessions to wipe the information from his memory, but we never see if he does this or not. </p>
<p>This story was also scripted by Bob Haney, who I think we can assume didn't share Denny O'Neil's hang-ups about people knowing Batman's secret. </p>
<p>This may not be the place to write this, but whilst going through my old Brave and the Bold issues, I couldn't help but notice thirteenth entry for your 12 Tricks for Keeping a Superhero Young. In B &amp; B # 84, The Angel, the Rock and the Cowl, Batman teams up with Sgt Rock. The story is set in the present (1969) with flashbacks to June, 1944, but Batman remains ageless throughout while Rock and the evil von Stauffen are visibly older in the present-day section of the story. </p>
<p>Now I can see that Haney was trying to create a fable, but when I was a kid, it irritated the hell out of me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff R.</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-659957</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 15:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-659957</guid>
		<description>Pre-crisis Myx canonically didn&#039;t know who Superman was.  (In the bronze age story where Superman finds himself in a gender-reversed world, he deduced that Myx is involved by the fact that in that world, Superwoman and Clara Kent are two different people.)  So it&#039;s unlikely that he knows who Batman is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pre-crisis Myx canonically didn't know who Superman was.  (In the bronze age story where Superman finds himself in a gender-reversed world, he deduced that Myx is involved by the fact that in that world, Superwoman and Clara Kent are two different people.)  So it's unlikely that he knows who Batman is.</p>
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		<title>By: Lorendiac</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-659902</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorendiac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 10:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-659902</guid>
		<description>I remembered from Doug Moench&#039;s run, over a hundred issues later (mid-80s) that Man-Bat could find his way into the Batcave any time he really felt the urge. Did he definitely know it was located directly beneath the stately home of millionaire Bruce Wayne and his youthful ward, Dick Grayson, though? You didn&#039;t say he specifically was aware of a Bruce/Batman connection. (Other people, Pre-COIE or Post-COIE, have spent time in the Batcave without knowing it was basically Bruce Wayne&#039;s sub-basement. Spoiler, for one!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remembered from Doug Moench's run, over a hundred issues later (mid-80s) that Man-Bat could find his way into the Batcave any time he really felt the urge. Did he definitely know it was located directly beneath the stately home of millionaire Bruce Wayne and his youthful ward, Dick Grayson, though? You didn't say he specifically was aware of a Bruce/Batman connection. (Other people, Pre-COIE or Post-COIE, have spent time in the Batcave without knowing it was basically Bruce Wayne's sub-basement. Spoiler, for one!)</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard the Poet</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-659899</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard the Poet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 10:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-659899</guid>
		<description>Batman&#039;s deceased ward was called Lance Bruner and appeared in the Brave and the Bold no. 83 - the Teen Titans (Robin, Kid Flash, Wonder Girl and Speedy) also appear and clearly know Bruce&#039;s identity. Deadman discovers it in Brave and the Bold no. 79. 

You also need to add Cain from the House of Mystery, who is shown to know it in Brave and the Bold no. 93. 

On your Doubtful Cases list, you might want to add Sgt Rock and Man Bat. Rock parachuted into occupied France with Bruce Wayne, but before you know it, Batman is helping Easy Co. and Bruce isn&#039;t anywhere to be seen (Brave and the Bold no. 84). Man Bat finds the Batcave in Detective Comics no. 402. 

The Brave and the Bold were all written by Bob Haney, the Man Bat stories were written by Frank Robbins. I hope that&#039;s helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Batman's deceased ward was called Lance Bruner and appeared in the Brave and the Bold no. 83 - the Teen Titans (Robin, Kid Flash, Wonder Girl and Speedy) also appear and clearly know Bruce's identity. Deadman discovers it in Brave and the Bold no. 79. </p>
<p>You also need to add Cain from the House of Mystery, who is shown to know it in Brave and the Bold no. 93. </p>
<p>On your Doubtful Cases list, you might want to add Sgt Rock and Man Bat. Rock parachuted into occupied France with Bruce Wayne, but before you know it, Batman is helping Easy Co. and Bruce isn't anywhere to be seen (Brave and the Bold no. 84). Man Bat finds the Batcave in Detective Comics no. 402. </p>
<p>The Brave and the Bold were all written by Bob Haney, the Man Bat stories were written by Frank Robbins. I hope that's helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: wwk5d</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-659898</link>
		<dc:creator>wwk5d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 10:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-659898</guid>
		<description>&quot;Denny Oâ€™Neilâ€™s frantic attempt in the mid-90s to retcon it to say: â€œAnyone in Titans continuity who knows Dick Graysonâ€™s secret is far too clueless to ever figure out who Batman really isâ€&quot;

I realize that by the time Crisis came around, too many people knew his identity, and they had to trim the number of people knowing...but did they really have to make the Titans characters such morons just to do it? Really? ALL OF THEM where that clueless? I mean, I know Dick was the brains of the team, but still! lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Denny Oâ€™Neilâ€™s frantic attempt in the mid-90s to retcon it to say: â€œAnyone in Titans continuity who knows Dick Graysonâ€™s secret is far too clueless to ever figure out who Batman really isâ€"</p>
<p>I realize that by the time Crisis came around, too many people knew his identity, and they had to trim the number of people knowing...but did they really have to make the Titans characters such morons just to do it? Really? ALL OF THEM where that clueless? I mean, I know Dick was the brains of the team, but still! lol</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob T. Levy</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-659897</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob T. Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 10:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-659897</guid>
		<description>According to this Deadman index:

http://darkmark6.tripod.com/deadmanind.htm

Deadman learned The Secret in his very first Batman team-up, BB #79.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to this Deadman index:</p>
<p><a href="http://darkmark6.tripod.com/deadmanind.htm" rel="nofollow">http://darkmark6.tripod.com/deadmanind.htm</a></p>
<p>Deadman learned The Secret in his very first Batman team-up, BB #79.</p>
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		<title>By: Lorendiac</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-659886</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorendiac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 09:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-659886</guid>
		<description>Jacob T. Levy -- the comment about Deadman sounds familiar. I think someone may have told me once that the Pre-COIE Deadman knew in at least one story, but if so, I must have forgotten the details of whatever I was told. (Given that Deadman had been using the body of Thomas Wayne Jr. as his regular host for awhile, which I did hear about some time ago, that might be the same story in which Boston Brand learned Batman&#039;s secrets? Or were you thinking of some other story that nailed the point down in the Bronze Age continuity?) 

Lothor -- Frankly, I have no idea whether the Pre-COIE Mxyzptlk ever showed signs of knowing who Batman really was. Heck, offhand I&#039;m not too clear on whether he ever definitely knew who Superman really was! (He may have -- I just wouldn&#039;t know! I&#039;ve read a few of his Pre-COIE stories, but not in ages, and I don&#039;t have a photographic memory for whatever I read!) 

About Clark&#039;s parents -- well, on the one hand, I&#039;m pretty sure Bruce didn&#039;t become Batman until after Clark&#039;s parents died while Clark was in college. On the other hand, now that you&#039;ve stirred my memory, I know I have read at least a few stories from the Pre-COIE era that worked on the theory that juvenile Clark and juvenile Bruce were pretty well-acquainted and sometimes worked on cases together (in sharp contradiction to the story I cited in my List, wherein they bumped into each other for the very first time as grown men on a cruise ship) . . . and I even seem to recall that Clark had some device that sometimes let him see into the future so that he, as Superboy, knew that someday Bruce would be Batman . . . so I guess he could have mentioned the &quot;secret identity of Batman&quot; to his parents before there even was a Batman!

On the other hand . . . in &quot;World&#039;s Finest #300&quot; Batman ends up traveling through time and manages to save Pa and Ma Kent from a gunman. Superboy pops up just after Bats has disappeared, and as I recall, Ma and Pa just say something like this about their rescuer: &quot;It was a man -- dressed all in black -- he seemed to recognize us and then ran away.&quot; That implies a certain failure to recognize &quot;Batman,&quot; although admittedly it was only a quick glimpse of him, and there&#039;s nothing that would have prevented Clark from telling them all about the future Batman a year later . . . 

I guess what it boils down to is that if anyone can show me a story in which Ma and Pa definitely knew, &quot;in continuity,&quot; all about Bruce Wayne&#039;s future plans before he actually started wearing a Batman costume, then I&#039;ll add them to the List -- but at this moment, I don&#039;t know of any solid reason to do so! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacob T. Levy -- the comment about Deadman sounds familiar. I think someone may have told me once that the Pre-COIE Deadman knew in at least one story, but if so, I must have forgotten the details of whatever I was told. (Given that Deadman had been using the body of Thomas Wayne Jr. as his regular host for awhile, which I did hear about some time ago, that might be the same story in which Boston Brand learned Batman's secrets? Or were you thinking of some other story that nailed the point down in the Bronze Age continuity?) </p>
<p>Lothor -- Frankly, I have no idea whether the Pre-COIE Mxyzptlk ever showed signs of knowing who Batman really was. Heck, offhand I'm not too clear on whether he ever definitely knew who Superman really was! (He may have -- I just wouldn't know! I've read a few of his Pre-COIE stories, but not in ages, and I don't have a photographic memory for whatever I read!) </p>
<p>About Clark's parents -- well, on the one hand, I'm pretty sure Bruce didn't become Batman until after Clark's parents died while Clark was in college. On the other hand, now that you've stirred my memory, I know I have read at least a few stories from the Pre-COIE era that worked on the theory that juvenile Clark and juvenile Bruce were pretty well-acquainted and sometimes worked on cases together (in sharp contradiction to the story I cited in my List, wherein they bumped into each other for the very first time as grown men on a cruise ship) . . . and I even seem to recall that Clark had some device that sometimes let him see into the future so that he, as Superboy, knew that someday Bruce would be Batman . . . so I guess he could have mentioned the "secret identity of Batman" to his parents before there even was a Batman!</p>
<p>On the other hand . . . in "World's Finest #300" Batman ends up traveling through time and manages to save Pa and Ma Kent from a gunman. Superboy pops up just after Bats has disappeared, and as I recall, Ma and Pa just say something like this about their rescuer: "It was a man -- dressed all in black -- he seemed to recognize us and then ran away." That implies a certain failure to recognize "Batman," although admittedly it was only a quick glimpse of him, and there's nothing that would have prevented Clark from telling them all about the future Batman a year later . . . </p>
<p>I guess what it boils down to is that if anyone can show me a story in which Ma and Pa definitely knew, "in continuity," all about Bruce Wayne's future plans before he actually started wearing a Batman costume, then I'll add them to the List -- but at this moment, I don't know of any solid reason to do so! <img src='http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Lorendiac</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-659883</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorendiac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 09:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-659883</guid>
		<description>Mr. Pete -- a few years ago I heard, for the first time in my life, about Bruce&#039;s long-lost brain-damaged older brother, Thomas Wayne Jr. I learned that he apparently appeared in just two stories written by Bob Haney -- at the end of the second, he died while taking a bullet (after having previously served as a &quot;host body&quot; for Deadman for awhile). But I&#039;m not clear on whether or not Thomas Jr. ever knew &quot;Batman&quot; was his little brother &quot;Bruce&quot;? Since I&#039;ve never read those stories, I know precious little about just how much of the world around him Thomas Jr. was capable of understanding. 

MarkAndrew -- on the other hand, I can honestly say I&#039;d &lt;I&gt;never even heard&lt;/I&gt; of Bruce Wayne&#039;s &quot;adopted and deceased ward&quot; before! I&#039;ll look into it, as best I can -- probably via online databases, since I don&#039;t feel too tempted to spend an arm and a leg to buy a copy of such an old issue of &quot;Brave and the Bold.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Pete -- a few years ago I heard, for the first time in my life, about Bruce's long-lost brain-damaged older brother, Thomas Wayne Jr. I learned that he apparently appeared in just two stories written by Bob Haney -- at the end of the second, he died while taking a bullet (after having previously served as a "host body" for Deadman for awhile). But I'm not clear on whether or not Thomas Jr. ever knew "Batman" was his little brother "Bruce"? Since I've never read those stories, I know precious little about just how much of the world around him Thomas Jr. was capable of understanding. </p>
<p>MarkAndrew -- on the other hand, I can honestly say I'd <i>never even heard</i> of Bruce Wayne's "adopted and deceased ward" before! I'll look into it, as best I can -- probably via online databases, since I don't feel too tempted to spend an arm and a leg to buy a copy of such an old issue of "Brave and the Bold."</p>
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		<title>By: Lorendiac</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/01/lorendiacs-lists-who-knew-bruce-was-batman/comment-page-1/#comment-659882</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorendiac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 09:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16280#comment-659882</guid>
		<description>ykw -- No, your memory must be playing tricks on you. The three-part &quot;Untold Legend of the Batman&quot; miniseries from 1980 has a lengthy flashback sequence (from Alfred&#039;s point of view) that makes it crystal-clear how he inserted himself into the daily routine at Wayne Manor (I reread it about a year and a half ago, for the umpteenth time). 

He fought in World War II. Then he spent a long time as a dramatic actor in England. Then, as his father, a former butler at Wayne Manor, was dying, Daddy Pennyworth extorted a promise from Alfred to continue the proud family tradition of each generation of Pennyworths having at least one member in domestic service. Very reluctantly, Alfred promised to keep the tradition alive. Deciding to pick up where his father had left off, he sailed across the Atlantic to Gotham and knocked on the door of Wayne Manor, totally unexpected, and &lt;I&gt;informed&lt;/I&gt; Bruce and Dick that he was their new butler. Bruce tried to politely explain that Alfred must have the wrong address or something, because Bruce hadn&#039;t been advertising for a new butler and didn&#039;t really need one. Alfred firmly &quot;corrected&quot; him on that point -- something like &quot;My father served your father, and now I shall serve you. That&#039;s the way of the world!&quot; and headed off to find himself a vacant room to sleep in. They couldn&#039;t get rid of him . . . or didn&#039;t have the heart to use brute force to throw him out, or something . . . but the way it&#039;s written, it&#039;s clear that the writer (Len Wein) was working on the belief that Bruce &lt;I&gt;never&lt;/I&gt; even laid eyes on Alfred Pennyworth until right then and there, well after he had already created the role of Batman; there was no sense of recognition; nothing like Alfred saying, &quot;Young Master Bruce! You&#039;ve grown considerably since I last saw you!&quot;; nothing even remotely similar.

We then skip ahead to some weeks later. Alfred awoke in the middle of the night to hear someone yelling his name, and found the noise was coming from behind that old grandfather clock downstairs. When he moved the clock aside, he found Bruce and Dick -- still dressed as Batman and Robin -- with Batman suffering from a gunshot wound and Dick more or less dragging him up the stairs. Alfred had apparently learned emergency battlefield medicine during his time in uniform, so he was able to help. (Although looking back at my own list, you&#039;d think they&#039;d have called for Doctor Dundee. I don&#039;t remember Dundee ever being mentioned in that miniseries, however.) 

As far as I know -- and I think I&#039;ve read something very close to every issue of &quot;Batman&quot; and &quot;Detective Comics&quot; story ever published by DC throughout the decade of the 1980s -- no &quot;in continuity&quot; story ever had Alfred as a butler who&#039;d been around at the Manor ever since Bruce was just a wee slip of a lad until &lt;I&gt;after&lt;/I&gt; the transition to Post-COIE continuity. I do seem to recall the Frank Miller&#039;s &quot;Dark Knight Returns&quot; had Alfred reminiscing at least once about what Bruce was like as a small boy, but that wasn&#039;t even remotely &quot;in continuity&quot; for the regular Batman titles. Then Miller had Bruce in &quot;Year One&quot; thinking something to the effect that his father had left him with the services of a butler trained in battlefield medicine, and that story arc seems to have first established &quot;in continuity&quot; (the Post-COIE continuity, of course!) the idea that Alfred is an &quot;old family retainer&quot; who&#039;s been hanging around the Manor ever since Bruce&#039;s parents were alive. 

(Although I believe at least one or two of the other Post-COIE writers have written things that stated or implied that Alfred only started working at the Manor after Bruce was a grown man, but in general that&#039;s no longer the &quot;conventional wisdom&quot; on the subject.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ykw -- No, your memory must be playing tricks on you. The three-part "Untold Legend of the Batman" miniseries from 1980 has a lengthy flashback sequence (from Alfred's point of view) that makes it crystal-clear how he inserted himself into the daily routine at Wayne Manor (I reread it about a year and a half ago, for the umpteenth time). </p>
<p>He fought in World War II. Then he spent a long time as a dramatic actor in England. Then, as his father, a former butler at Wayne Manor, was dying, Daddy Pennyworth extorted a promise from Alfred to continue the proud family tradition of each generation of Pennyworths having at least one member in domestic service. Very reluctantly, Alfred promised to keep the tradition alive. Deciding to pick up where his father had left off, he sailed across the Atlantic to Gotham and knocked on the door of Wayne Manor, totally unexpected, and <i>informed</i> Bruce and Dick that he was their new butler. Bruce tried to politely explain that Alfred must have the wrong address or something, because Bruce hadn't been advertising for a new butler and didn't really need one. Alfred firmly "corrected" him on that point -- something like "My father served your father, and now I shall serve you. That's the way of the world!" and headed off to find himself a vacant room to sleep in. They couldn't get rid of him . . . or didn't have the heart to use brute force to throw him out, or something . . . but the way it's written, it's clear that the writer (Len Wein) was working on the belief that Bruce <i>never</i> even laid eyes on Alfred Pennyworth until right then and there, well after he had already created the role of Batman; there was no sense of recognition; nothing like Alfred saying, "Young Master Bruce! You've grown considerably since I last saw you!"; nothing even remotely similar.</p>
<p>We then skip ahead to some weeks later. Alfred awoke in the middle of the night to hear someone yelling his name, and found the noise was coming from behind that old grandfather clock downstairs. When he moved the clock aside, he found Bruce and Dick -- still dressed as Batman and Robin -- with Batman suffering from a gunshot wound and Dick more or less dragging him up the stairs. Alfred had apparently learned emergency battlefield medicine during his time in uniform, so he was able to help. (Although looking back at my own list, you'd think they'd have called for Doctor Dundee. I don't remember Dundee ever being mentioned in that miniseries, however.) </p>
<p>As far as I know -- and I think I've read something very close to every issue of "Batman" and "Detective Comics" story ever published by DC throughout the decade of the 1980s -- no "in continuity" story ever had Alfred as a butler who'd been around at the Manor ever since Bruce was just a wee slip of a lad until <i>after</i> the transition to Post-COIE continuity. I do seem to recall the Frank Miller's "Dark Knight Returns" had Alfred reminiscing at least once about what Bruce was like as a small boy, but that wasn't even remotely "in continuity" for the regular Batman titles. Then Miller had Bruce in "Year One" thinking something to the effect that his father had left him with the services of a butler trained in battlefield medicine, and that story arc seems to have first established "in continuity" (the Post-COIE continuity, of course!) the idea that Alfred is an "old family retainer" who's been hanging around the Manor ever since Bruce's parents were alive. </p>
<p>(Although I believe at least one or two of the other Post-COIE writers have written things that stated or implied that Alfred only started working at the Manor after Bruce was a grown man, but in general that's no longer the "conventional wisdom" on the subject.)</p>
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