This gets thrown around a lot, but I really don't agree with it. Aside from putting the X-Men back into their superhero costumes (which I didn't like but there was a good reason for), and retconning Xorn's identity, the bulk of Morrison's New X-Men is certainly still in-continuity. The current X-books may not be moving in the same direction as Morrison was, but I think it's inaccurate to say Morrison's run on New X-Men was "retconned out of existence."

Some people can't just ignore this, understandable. Some people just aren't wired that way. But if you're among the people who are able to look past this, I think Johns's GL is a fine superhero comic. Not a work of genius like some nostalgic Hal fans make it out to be, but certainly not meriting the hatred another portion of fans have for it.

There are plenty of cool ideas in this series. The Sinestro Corps, Hal's war story, Coast City as a ghost city, even Hal's confrontation with Hammond (that I didn't read as Hannibal Lecter-like, much more like a pathetic crippled telepath desperately envious of Hal's alpha male life), and making guys like Black Hand and the Shark more of a threat. Even Hal's reconnecting with his family was sorta warming, though it was also so predictable.

Not saying my oppinion is better than anyone else's, but maybe because I have no strong feelings for Hal, good or bad, nor any strong feelings for Emerald Twilight or Kyle Rayner, good or bad, I approached this series just as another work of the guy I already liked in JSA and Flash, and I think it has been good. Certainly better than Johns first issues in the Flash.

I'm not sure if that was actually directed at me Rene (I believe you are addressing the gestalt dislike of the choices surrounding Hal's redemption, if not rebirth)- but yes I do want to clarify, I have no dislike of Johns- he's simply doing the job DC/fandom wants him to do. But Hal's rather vanilla return just doesn't engage me, though as I said there is some gold to be mined in them thar hills- as evidenced by that nice POW story that introduced Hal's potential/current love interest. The issues prior, with the shark guy, Hector Hammond in the jail doing a poor man's -- see Red Dragon versus Manhunter-- Hannibal Lecter job on Hal (i'm going to catch hell for this, aren't I?), Hal just magically being sucked back into the air force, I just couldn't get into it all. I think there is a way to keep stuff light while still having recriminations. Alan Davis managed it with Captain Britain in Excalibur, so too could it be done with Hal, who I'd just like to see having to work a bit harder to adjust to his new life given all that went down (even with the overall consequenceless retconn).

And hey, Emerald Twilight had its problems too- Hal's rather abrupt shift into crazy, especially right after his inspiring beatdown of Mogul and... what, he's taking everybody down, but decides to skip over Mogo? Now that I would have liked to see- the greatest versus the biggest.

Damn but we hijacked the shit out of this thread didn't we GL's?

As far as T's arguement about Marvel villains and whatnot, I grew up a Marvel Zombie, but have been about 80% DC for the past 8 years. That said, I still don't feel like I know who most of the DC villains are, aside from the Batman ones. I've been reading JLA, JSA, Teen Titans, Flash, Green Lantern, all the Batman titles, and several of the SUperman titles for years now, and I still have no idea who most of the villains are. But I can pick up almost any Marvel book and have a good chance of at least knowing who the villain is. Marvel, in my opinion, has definitely created and cultivated more memorable and unique characters than DC. DC has had more well written runs/series, but Marvel has done a much better job with the shared universe concept.

Re: The Invisibles, I got lost a few times too on the first read. Try it again. Someone ( I can't remember who) once said that a prerequisite for reading The Invisibles is having already read it. Most, if not all, of the confusing bits make sense on a second read. Bear in mind that I'm speaking about the story itself, not all of the stuff bubbling under the surface -- I'm still struggling with understanding some of that, and I've been trying.
-k-

I don't care about Hal one way or the other. I read three issues of the current GL series (7-9), and wasn't impressed, but I've heard Sinestro War was well-done. I tried the 1st Johns Flash trade, and didn't like it, so I never bothered with the rest of them. I liked his JSA, however, and the recent Legion story in Action was a lot of fun (even if it was fan-service).

As to the editing on Starman, there were a few mis-namings in the early issues. On the other hand, there were top-notch stories and art. I'm sure Goodwin had some input there, especially as he was credited as "guiding light" in every issue of the book after he passed away. Robinson wrote some loving tributes to the man. With the quality of the comic being so high, I can forgive a few minor errors.

Re the "Portrait..." panel- I seem to recall the name of the story being in its own panel, which would indicate the misnaming was intentional, and Robinson was drawing some attention to it. Maybe I'm just remembering a flashback in the later issues...

If Johns dwelled more on the memories of what Hal did, I bet a lot of fans would accuse him of going the angsty route. But from the issues I've read, Hal does remember what he did, particularly when he faces distrust among the alien Green Lanterns. But true, Johns avoid dwelling on that very much, because this isn't the Hal the fans of the character want.

What Dean said (that Hal is a man of another time, that Kyle is cool, that Emerald Twilight was valid, etc.) are all reasons one might enumerate for why Rebirth shouldn't be done. But it's done, and it isn't Geoff Johns's writing that will change anything. I'm a little confused by the anger directed at Johns for doing a story that certain people would dislike no matter what.

I can understand it if DC was reluctant to bring Hal back, and then Johns put a lot of pressure to make it happen. I dunno. Was that what happened? Then I can see how you can blame Johns. But if DC decided to re-introduce the character's status quo, and then Johns volunteered, I don't think he deserves the hate.

The editing on this is really, really bad. There’s page after page of things that are just plain wrong and shouldn’t be.

You're the first person I've ever seen say negative things about Archie Goodwin.

Y'see, I'm not a Superman guy. Don't care one jot for Spider-man. Haven't thought Wolverine was cool since I was 15. But I really like Hal Jordan - he was number 3 on my top 10 favorite DC characters list. Am I so wrong for wanting my heroic Hal back? Am I an idiot for excusing Rebirth its faults because I feel it “fixes” a horrible story?

Vincent, I certainly empathize. Comics have been so focused on the shocking twist that a lot of characters died in a way that left a sour taste in my mouth. Hal Jordan was the most prominent example.

However, 'fixing' a story like that rarely works. The truth is that "Emerald Twilight" was not badly written and Kyle Rayner was in interesting character. Walking back a well-done story to make one group of fans happy just irritates another. So, the 'fix' needs fixing and the snake starts to eat his own tail.

On Hal Jordan as GL, his modern stories very rarely interest me. There are just certain characters who are "of their time". Hal Jordan is a great character in the context of the '60s. He is part and parcel of all that cool space race stuff. He also served as a great contrast to Ollie Queen and the social changes he represented. However, you move him out of that time period and he loses some dimension. The guy just has never been plausible as being a member of later generation. He always seems like an old man in a young man's body to me.

That is true of a lot of Silver Agers. Reed Richards, Sue Storm-Richards, Johnny Storm and Ben Grimm were all "of their time" in the same way. Very cool in the '60s, but by the '90s they were out of date. Life changes and puts even great story-telling engines firmly into the past.

I get why monkey sex is funny (tee-hee) but did the detractors actually read the story arc?

These days though, at least I can console myself that it could be far worse: I could be a Spidey fan!

I made an exception for All Star Superman, which is worthy of it.

This also conveniently meant my top ten wasn't largely composed of Alan Moore comics. Any future top ten mini-series, however, is doomed to read 'Alan Moore' almost across the board!

A few notes on how I chose my list:

* First and foremost, I had to enjoy the run and consider that i would likely read it again not just when I got it, but also many years afterwards. This meant 'instant classics' like All Star Superman would be included, but stuff I like very much but doubt I will re-read ten years from now did not.

* New Mutants made #1 because of two things: nostalgia & Illyana. I consider both to be excellent reasons, even though Lucifer, my #2, is in fact a vastly better series. New Mutants was the first US series I collected, and I thought both then and now that it represents Claremont's best work, even over his X-Men run.

* I ignored everything that wasn't a published US comic on the sure grounds that almost everyone else would do the same This also kept things simple, as I did not have to worry about the 1500+ issues of 2000AD, nor the many web comics to which I am addicted. I felt I had more than enough US comics to work through without making it worse for myself.

* I've forgotten at least half of my list by now - but that's OK, coz it'd likely be different tomorrow anyway! Lucifer or the New Mutants will always make #1, Hitman will be #3 but beyond that... another day is another world, ya know? There's a TON of good stuff out there.

All in all, though, this list has been huge fun, and I've thoroughly enjoyed reading a lot of the very thoughtful and interesting discussions that follow the threads. There are some great people on here

Seriously, while I didn't vote for Johns' GL run as one of my 10 favorites, I guess it's fair to say that I'm the kind of fan to whom he's pandering. Sorry, my bad.

Y'see, I'm not a Superman guy. Don't care one jot for Spider-man. Haven't thought Wolverine was cool since I was 15. But I really like Hal Jordan - he was number 3 on my top 10 favorite DC characters list. Am I so wrong for wanting my heroic Hal back? Am I an idiot for excusing Rebirth its faults because I feel it “fixes” a horrible story?

We can all talk about how we only care that a story is interesting but, c’mon, story only trumps character until it's your favorite character whose being @#$%ed over.

Great analysis Greg. I too am a reverse nostalgist- in that I can't get into the simplistic plots of the early days as much as the deeply delved into character work of today. I think Spidey is the only exception to that rule, as there was always a healthy amount of focus on Peter's trials and tribulations with his friends and family- which is really what made that comic stand above all its predecessors and contemporaries of that period.

Btw, what was the reason for the rift between Moore and Davis? I don't think I've read the story behind that.

Now, suppose you had to bring Hal Jordan back, and suppose that DC said you had to make him an acceptable hero again. What would you do?

a) Shit happened, but now Hal is a hero again, even mass murderers can find redemption and be accepted as heroes again, right?

b) Everyone he killed somehow wasn't really killed. After all, it's comic book death. Problem is, this doesn't change the fact he still intended to kill them.

c) Hal wasn't himself.

d) Just reboot the whole thing by getting a younger clone of Hal Jordan or having Jordan make a deal with the devil or something.

Is there an "e" option? I don't think so. The "c" option seems to be the least of several evils.