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CSBG Archive

Snark Free Corner for 5/20

Sorry, this should have been up yesterday, but the server went down for a bit!

Welcome to the latest installment of your breath of snark free air!

Enjoy!

SNARK FREE DEBATE

Which Legion was cooler – Abnett and Lanning’s or McGraw/Peyer/Stern’s?

The McGraw/Peyer/Stern Legion was notable in the way that, along with artists Jeffrey Moy and Lee Moder, it portrayed the Legion as heroes in the mold of the old Binder, Siegel, Hamilton and Shooter days.

The Abnett and Lanning stories were noted by their artist, as well, as Olivier Coipel had a darker feel to his work than Moy and Moder, and the D’n'A stories were a good deal darker.

Both runs spotlighted characterizations as a key part of their writing.

Which one do you Legion fans like better?

Let me know – and remember, in the debate, no snarkiness allowed!!

COVER THEME GAME

As always, here is the game. I show three covers. They all have something in common, whether it be a character, a trait all three characters share, locale, creator, SOMEthing. And it isn’t something obvious like “They all have prices!” “They all have logos!” “They all feature a man!” etc.

In addition, please note that you must have some familiarity with comic book history to correctly guess these comics. You cannot guess the connective theme just by looking at the covers solely, you must have some knowledge beyond just the covers.

A cool point to the first person to figure it out!

Good luck!

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SNARK FREE CHALLENGE

Who would win in a game of basketball – Guy Gardner or Hawkeye?

THE COVER GAME

This week’s game is as follows…

Find me a cover featuring Batman laughing…

Here is an example (which you can’t use!)…

Remember, only one cover per commenter!

WHO IS IT?

Remember, tell me who it is and what number clue gave it away!

1. This character dated a superhero.
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2. This character has been a superhero.
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3. This character has been a supervillain.
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4. This character was once thought to be possessed by the devil.
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5. This character’s superhero name is a color.

Who is it?

Well, that’s it for this installment of Snark Free Corner.

Hope you had fun!

29 Comments

Graham Vingoe

May 21, 2008 at 1:56 am

Of the 2 Legion runs you mention I’d plump for the Abnett/Lanning run well over the McGraw/Peyer/Stern run Abnett and Lanning turned Legion into a series with much greater science fictional feel and Ra’s Al Ghul appearing was simply a genius move. Mcgraw/Peyer/Stern as a team produced some great stuff but they produced it after what I felt was an unnecessary reboot after Zero Hour.

Definitely the McGraw/Peyer/Stern. After the 5YL run, it was a nice change and breath of fresh hair. It wasn’t perfect (I never got into their pet character, Kinetix), but overall, a great run. It did, however, IMO, lose steam during the Dark Circle and never got got it’s groove back. The Abnett/Lanning run was good too, just not as good.

Francisco Germiniani

May 21, 2008 at 3:07 am

It’s Magenta, from the Flash. The color clue gave her away.

Tom Fitzpatrick

May 21, 2008 at 3:26 am

Really?, I figured the Blue Devil.

The Giffen/Levitz Legion run wuz the cooolest.

The covers, I guessing here, is about helpless females in distress, needing to be saved.

Both Legion runs definitely had a lot going on to shake up the characters’ lives. The notable moment of the tongue-sticking-out era was the trials they put Vi through, but that era had too many low points for me to give it the nod. The DnA era consistently shook things up which I really enjoyed.

My question is, “Who’s the ref?” Because Guy, he’d play dirty. He’d throw elbows, he’d flop, he would violently and egregiously foul until Hawkeye decided to use some of those skills Captain America taught him and it would turn from a basketball game into a brawl.

But if the ref is keeping them from fighting, Hawkeye in a walkover. He’d be an absolute killer shot from anywhere on the court, knocking down three after three after three until Guy begged for mercy.

McGraw/Peyer/Stern had their moments, but the Abnett and Lanning run was much better. The art was better, for one thing, thanks to Coipel and Batista, and the stories were darker without compromising the Legion’s essential innocence. I think that Abnett and Lanning’s Legion was about as good as Legion storytelling ever got. Maybe best ever.

A few covers I found:

[img]http://www.goldenagebatman.com/cover12.html[/img]

[img]http://www.goldenagebatman.com/cover112.html[/img]

[img]http://www.goldenagebatman.com/bat33a.jpg[/img]

The cover theme is “hounds.” Catwoman’s fighting Hellhound, Claremont had Rachel constantly refer to herself as a “hound”, and of course, Ace, the Bat-Hound on the Batman cover.

I don’t know if either series had better art, I’d say both had art that was appropriate for the tone of the book at the time. And while DnA had a good run, I wouldn’t say it was my favorite…

Hawkeye would win. He’d take out his hearing aid, depriving Guy of his best skill, the trash talking.

After that, Hawkeye would just nail jumper after jumper. It’d be over fast.

Wasn’t Guy a phys ed teacher at one point? Even still, I have to go with Hawkeye. Guy would be fouling up a storm (and probably have a better grasp of the fundamentals) but he just couldn’t compete with all the shots Hawkeye would make.

I was going to throw up a guess for Black Cat. I don’t know about the “posessed” qualifier, but she meets the rest of the items.

I agree that Clint would beat Guy. PE teacher or not, Clint is the better athlete and unmatched with accuracy.

Hate to use the obvious for the cover challenge but…

http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=32073&zoom=4

That said, I don’t think there’s any proof that Batman’s actually laughing in the sample– if you’re looking at broad grins, I can find dozens of examples.

I would probably choose the Waid / Peyer McCraw Legion over DnA, but it would be pretty close.

This version of the Legion was a true Reboot, and even though it did not follow the established Pre-Zero-Hour chronology exactly, it was definitely parallel, including bits for the long-term fan (me!) as well as throwing in unexpected curves at times. I also may be the only person that admits to liking Jeff Moy’s artwork, but he had a very solid performance across the entire series.

DnA / Coipel told some very interesting stories, and picked up the interest and excitement after the previous run had lost it’s steam. I really liked Chris Batista’s run towards the end.

Laughing Batman: Batman #40 http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=5870&zoom=4

I’d go with the McGraw/Peyer Legion, but I generally prefer the old-school style.

I have to go with the McGraw/Peyer/Stern Legion. That was the first version of the Legion I ever read, sifting through about the first year and a half’s worth of issues that my uncle had in his comic collection one summer. I absolutely fell in love with the book’s writing and art (you’re not the only Moy fan, Greg Geren). I haven’t really read much of the DnA Legion yet, but I doubt it will overtake the initial reboot run in my heart.

Stephane Savoie

May 21, 2008 at 8:50 am

DnA Legion, for sure. While I hated the Ra’s Al Ghul story (and concept), the McGraw/Peyer/Stern years had too many horrendous moments, from Sneckie to Monstress.

John Trumbull

May 21, 2008 at 9:09 am

I never read much of the DnA Legion, so I’ll have to go with the McGraw/Peyer/Stern Legion out of default. For my money, though, the best Legion ever was the Paul Levitz/Steve Lightle Legion.

I say Hawkeye for the B-ball game. He’s got more drive, and I have a gut feeling he’s got more skills.

The knock against the McGraw/Peyer/Stern (not to mention the Biernbaums) run on Legion/Legionnaires was that it was too fun. TOO FUN!!! Let that sink in. People didn’t want fun stories, they wanted dark sci-fi. I cant believe I used to hear that about this title. I enjoyed reading comics especially when Moy was on the art. It was a breath of fresh air in the age of darker comic books. Go back and read it and see if you don’t have a good time reading the series.

It wouldn’t work in today’s DC where it seems like killing off characters is the way that attention is received.

For the cover theme game, I was going to say “cats and dogs,” since you’ve got Catwoman, Shadowcat (at the top left of the second cover) and Ace, the Bat-hound in the third, but I think DanLarkin’s got it with “hounds.” Wasn’t Rachel Summers called a “hellhound” or something like that in the future where she came from? I didn’t know the character attacking Catwoman in the first cover was also called Hellhound, so that clinches it for me.

And Guy Gardner – he’s a gym teacher, for heaven’s sake! Just because you can fight with a sword and shoot arrows doesn’t mean you’re good at every athletic pursuit! Then again, if Hawkeye’s a Skrull, he could make himself taller and have a real advantage!

Given that Hawkeye is slightly taller than Guy (6’3″ versus 6’1″ or so) and that he’s a better shooter, in a game without powers Hawkeye should win.

Of course, let them use trick arrows and the ring, and all bets are off.

Remember, Guy is not just a gym coach – he almost made it to the pros playing football, so that’s why I hoped it’d be a fair fight – Guy’s overall sports skills (and yes, trash talking) versus Clint’s shooting ability (plus the fact that both of them would likely cheat :) ).

Hmm, my comments aren’t showing up again, but I’ll try another one anyway:

For the life of me, I can’t tell DC’s Hellhound and Marvel’s Mad Dog apart.

And the Colorist / Co-Writer on that Legion series was Tom McCraw.

That is all…

FunkyGreenJerusalem

May 21, 2008 at 5:37 pm

I like the Waid and Kitson run the best!
Admittedly, it’s the only Legion I’ve read, but it’s probably the only legion I will read – if this Johns series takes it’s place, I’m out… which would be a shame, as I think the Waid and Kitson brand of Legion is excellent, and can’t figure out why everybody doesn’t read it.

C. Adams, noone (myself included) would knock the Biernbaums run for being too fun; if anything, it was too dark as well. My favorite Legion would be the Levitz/Giffen/Lightle/LaRoque run.

Yes, Rachael was a ‘hound’ in her era. Like other hounds, she was tortured and used to locate and capture other mutants.

Actually, Hellhound reminded me of Amalgams’s Darlclaw…mostly the mouthpiece.

Damn.
I got here too late.
And for ONCE! I knew the answer to this.
Which, of course, is “hounds”.
Hellhound, Rachel the Hound, and Bat-Hound.
Goddammit.

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