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	<title>Comments on: Manga Before Flowers -- News Flash: Corporations Suck!</title>
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	<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/</link>
	<description>Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good!</description>
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		<title>By: Reader</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-664059</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 15:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-664059</guid>
		<description>This is also discussed on my blog here:
http://readingbookwatchingmoviesandmore.blogspot.com/2008/05/tokeyopops-contracts.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is also discussed on my blog here:<br />
<a href="http://readingbookwatchingmoviesandmore.blogspot.com/2008/05/tokeyopops-contracts.html" rel="nofollow">http://readingbookwatchingmoviesandmore.blogspot.com/2008/05/tokeyopops-contracts.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Blog@Newsarama &#187; More on that horrible, horrible, horrible Tokyopop contract</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-664031</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog@Newsarama &#187; More on that horrible, horrible, horrible Tokyopop contract</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 12:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-664031</guid>
		<description>[...] Here, here, here, here, here and here. And Lea Hernandez has even more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Here, here, here, here, here and here. And Lea Hernandez has even more [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Danielle Leigh</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663964</link>
		<dc:creator>Danielle Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 20:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663964</guid>
		<description>hi Alan,

The sad part is that some of these young artists *still* think it is a good idea to sign with Tokyopop after being exposed to more experienced commentary about the contract (i.e. Bryan Lee O&#039;Malley&#039;s dissection of the entire thing).

See their comments on page 12 and 13 of TP Pilot Program thread: http://messageboard.tokyopop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11709&amp;page=12

It is their decision in the end but I&#039;m so amazed how they think it will turn out differently for them than it did for the majority of TP&#039;s first wave OEL creators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi Alan,</p>
<p>The sad part is that some of these young artists *still* think it is a good idea to sign with Tokyopop after being exposed to more experienced commentary about the contract (i.e. Bryan Lee O'Malley's dissection of the entire thing).</p>
<p>See their comments on page 12 and 13 of TP Pilot Program thread: <a href="http://messageboard.tokyopop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11709&amp;page=12" rel="nofollow">http://messageboard.tokyopop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11709&amp;page=12</a></p>
<p>It is their decision in the end but I'm so amazed how they think it will turn out differently for them than it did for the majority of TP's first wave OEL creators.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Coil</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663951</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Coil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 17:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663951</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s put this in plain words---that contract sucks. It&#039;s crap.

That the contract is written with a slant toward, &quot;Hey, we&#039;re your buddies here. Them French sure had funny ideas, didn&#039;t they?&quot; is just so obviously fake in tone that most of us who read it will see it as a scam-type offering. But it is the young hopefuls who will read it and get taken in.

&quot;We&#039;ll sell this car to you at a loss and make up for it in volume!&quot;

&quot;Want to make a thousand dollars a week working from home?&quot;

It has been reported elsewhere that the contract pays $750 for a completed comic book. That&#039;s roughly $31 a page for 24 pages. A completed comic, not just the writing. Good luck finding any artist who will draw and ink and color an entire comic for that kind of money. A whole month&#039;s worth of work for $750 is $9000 a year. You can easily make that much working in the fast food business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let's put this in plain words---that contract sucks. It's crap.</p>
<p>That the contract is written with a slant toward, "Hey, we're your buddies here. Them French sure had funny ideas, didn't they?" is just so obviously fake in tone that most of us who read it will see it as a scam-type offering. But it is the young hopefuls who will read it and get taken in.</p>
<p>"We'll sell this car to you at a loss and make up for it in volume!"</p>
<p>"Want to make a thousand dollars a week working from home?"</p>
<p>It has been reported elsewhere that the contract pays $750 for a completed comic book. That's roughly $31 a page for 24 pages. A completed comic, not just the writing. Good luck finding any artist who will draw and ink and color an entire comic for that kind of money. A whole month's worth of work for $750 is $9000 a year. You can easily make that much working in the fast food business.</p>
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		<title>By: J to the AAP</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663907</link>
		<dc:creator>J to the AAP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 08:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663907</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Moral rights, schmoral rights! You don&#039;t need those at Tokyopop, where your BFF&#039;s!&lt;/i&gt;

Yugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Moral rights, schmoral rights! You don't need those at Tokyopop, where your BFF's!</i></p>
<p>Yugh.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663898</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 04:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663898</guid>
		<description>Comic book companies don&#039;t need to distinguish between work for hire and original work. The law does it for them. Well, actually, they distinguish between work-for-hire and creator-owned work. Working on pre-established characters versus creating new ones is something else entirely, and not really a legal matter.

In fact, hiring someone to ink someone else&#039;s work and hiring someone to create something completely new out of whole cloth can both be work-for-hire, depending on the arrangement between the artist and the company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comic book companies don't need to distinguish between work for hire and original work. The law does it for them. Well, actually, they distinguish between work-for-hire and creator-owned work. Working on pre-established characters versus creating new ones is something else entirely, and not really a legal matter.</p>
<p>In fact, hiring someone to ink someone else's work and hiring someone to create something completely new out of whole cloth can both be work-for-hire, depending on the arrangement between the artist and the company.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Fitzpatrick</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663878</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Fitzpatrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 00:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663878</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m mostly a Dark Horse manga fan kind of a guy.

Tho&#039;, I kinda like DEATH NOTE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm mostly a Dark Horse manga fan kind of a guy.</p>
<p>Tho', I kinda like DEATH NOTE.</p>
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		<title>By: Danielle Leigh</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663876</link>
		<dc:creator>Danielle Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 00:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663876</guid>
		<description>hi Baron -- I&#039;ll be honest and note I&#039;m not sure about this but wonder if most comic book companies / publisher distinguish between &quot;work for hire&quot; and &quot;original creative work&quot;?  (i.e. hiring someone to ink some else&#039;s creative vision versus hiring someone to create from scratch an entire work?  Or, in this case, buying a work created independently, but only if it is judged to have some kind of merit / sale-ability.)

Or am I missing some thing vital about what it means to produce creative work for a corporation?

I&#039;m not being snarky, by the way, I just see T&#039;pop&#039;s notion of a &quot;contract&quot; here insanely unfair and am trying to figure out how bad it really is if we look at real world expectations of what comic book creators should receive....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi Baron -- I'll be honest and note I'm not sure about this but wonder if most comic book companies / publisher distinguish between "work for hire" and "original creative work"?  (i.e. hiring someone to ink some else's creative vision versus hiring someone to create from scratch an entire work?  Or, in this case, buying a work created independently, but only if it is judged to have some kind of merit / sale-ability.)</p>
<p>Or am I missing some thing vital about what it means to produce creative work for a corporation?</p>
<p>I'm not being snarky, by the way, I just see T'pop's notion of a "contract" here insanely unfair and am trying to figure out how bad it really is if we look at real world expectations of what comic book creators should receive....</p>
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		<title>By: The Baron</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663870</link>
		<dc:creator>The Baron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 23:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663870</guid>
		<description>Work for hire is not exactly uncommon in comics either. Is getting payed per page of pitch usual? i&#039;ve not heard of it, and rates for finished scripts for beginners are usually appauling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Work for hire is not exactly uncommon in comics either. Is getting payed per page of pitch usual? i've not heard of it, and rates for finished scripts for beginners are usually appauling.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Cronin</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663864</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Cronin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 22:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663864</guid>
		<description>Yeah, it&#039;s ridiculous.

I would differ on one slight, minor point - poorly written contracts are a &lt;em&gt;slight&lt;/em&gt; aid for the party that did not write them, for ambiguity almost always goes AGAINST the party who constructed the contract (as just a matter of natural fairness - if you write a crappy contract, you can&#039;t get the benefit of possibly misleading the other party due to your poor writing).

But yeah, it&#039;s a joke of a deal. Very lame, and also, yes, fairly unsurprising, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it's ridiculous.</p>
<p>I would differ on one slight, minor point - poorly written contracts are a <em>slight</em> aid for the party that did not write them, for ambiguity almost always goes AGAINST the party who constructed the contract (as just a matter of natural fairness - if you write a crappy contract, you can't get the benefit of possibly misleading the other party due to your poor writing).</p>
<p>But yeah, it's a joke of a deal. Very lame, and also, yes, fairly unsurprising, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Lea Hernande</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663861</link>
		<dc:creator>Lea Hernande</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 22:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663861</guid>
		<description>Thanks for getting the word out. Doing that is not negative!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for getting the word out. Doing that is not negative!</p>
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