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	<title>Comments on: Manga Before Flowers &#8212; News Flash: Corporations Suck!</title>
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	<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/</link>
	<description>Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good!</description>
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		<title>By: Reader</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-664059</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 15:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-664059</guid>
		<description>This is also discussed on my blog here:
http://readingbookwatchingmoviesandmore.blogspot.com/2008/05/tokeyopops-contracts.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is also discussed on my blog here:<br />
<a href="http://readingbookwatchingmoviesandmore.blogspot.com/2008/05/tokeyopops-contracts.html" rel="nofollow">http://readingbookwatchingmoviesandmore.blogspot.com/2008/05/tokeyopops-contracts.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Blog@Newsarama &#187; More on that horrible, horrible, horrible Tokyopop contract</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-664031</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog@Newsarama &#187; More on that horrible, horrible, horrible Tokyopop contract</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 12:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-664031</guid>
		<description>[...] Here, here, here, here, here and here. And Lea Hernandez has even more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Here, here, here, here, here and here. And Lea Hernandez has even more [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Danielle Leigh</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663964</link>
		<dc:creator>Danielle Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 20:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663964</guid>
		<description>hi Alan,

The sad part is that some of these young artists *still* think it is a good idea to sign with Tokyopop after being exposed to more experienced commentary about the contract (i.e. Bryan Lee O&#039;Malley&#039;s dissection of the entire thing).

See their comments on page 12 and 13 of TP Pilot Program thread: http://messageboard.tokyopop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11709&amp;page=12

It is their decision in the end but I&#039;m so amazed how they think it will turn out differently for them than it did for the majority of TP&#039;s first wave OEL creators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi Alan,</p>
<p>The sad part is that some of these young artists *still* think it is a good idea to sign with Tokyopop after being exposed to more experienced commentary about the contract (i.e. Bryan Lee O&#8217;Malley&#8217;s dissection of the entire thing).</p>
<p>See their comments on page 12 and 13 of TP Pilot Program thread: <a href="http://messageboard.tokyopop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11709&amp;page=12" rel="nofollow">http://messageboard.tokyopop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11709&amp;page=12</a></p>
<p>It is their decision in the end but I&#8217;m so amazed how they think it will turn out differently for them than it did for the majority of TP&#8217;s first wave OEL creators.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Coil</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663951</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Coil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 17:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663951</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s put this in plain words---that contract sucks. It&#039;s crap.

That the contract is written with a slant toward, &quot;Hey, we&#039;re your buddies here. Them French sure had funny ideas, didn&#039;t they?&quot; is just so obviously fake in tone that most of us who read it will see it as a scam-type offering. But it is the young hopefuls who will read it and get taken in.

&quot;We&#039;ll sell this car to you at a loss and make up for it in volume!&quot;

&quot;Want to make a thousand dollars a week working from home?&quot;

It has been reported elsewhere that the contract pays $750 for a completed comic book. That&#039;s roughly $31 a page for 24 pages. A completed comic, not just the writing. Good luck finding any artist who will draw and ink and color an entire comic for that kind of money. A whole month&#039;s worth of work for $750 is $9000 a year. You can easily make that much working in the fast food business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s put this in plain words&#8212;that contract sucks. It&#8217;s crap.</p>
<p>That the contract is written with a slant toward, &#8220;Hey, we&#8217;re your buddies here. Them French sure had funny ideas, didn&#8217;t they?&#8221; is just so obviously fake in tone that most of us who read it will see it as a scam-type offering. But it is the young hopefuls who will read it and get taken in.</p>
<p>&#8220;We&#8217;ll sell this car to you at a loss and make up for it in volume!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Want to make a thousand dollars a week working from home?&#8221;</p>
<p>It has been reported elsewhere that the contract pays $750 for a completed comic book. That&#8217;s roughly $31 a page for 24 pages. A completed comic, not just the writing. Good luck finding any artist who will draw and ink and color an entire comic for that kind of money. A whole month&#8217;s worth of work for $750 is $9000 a year. You can easily make that much working in the fast food business.</p>
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		<title>By: J to the AAP</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663907</link>
		<dc:creator>J to the AAP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 08:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663907</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Moral rights, schmoral rights! You don&#039;t need those at Tokyopop, where your BFF&#039;s!&lt;/i&gt;

Yugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Moral rights, schmoral rights! You don&#8217;t need those at Tokyopop, where your BFF&#8217;s!</i></p>
<p>Yugh.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663898</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 04:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663898</guid>
		<description>Comic book companies don&#039;t need to distinguish between work for hire and original work. The law does it for them. Well, actually, they distinguish between work-for-hire and creator-owned work. Working on pre-established characters versus creating new ones is something else entirely, and not really a legal matter.

In fact, hiring someone to ink someone else&#039;s work and hiring someone to create something completely new out of whole cloth can both be work-for-hire, depending on the arrangement between the artist and the company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comic book companies don&#8217;t need to distinguish between work for hire and original work. The law does it for them. Well, actually, they distinguish between work-for-hire and creator-owned work. Working on pre-established characters versus creating new ones is something else entirely, and not really a legal matter.</p>
<p>In fact, hiring someone to ink someone else&#8217;s work and hiring someone to create something completely new out of whole cloth can both be work-for-hire, depending on the arrangement between the artist and the company.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Fitzpatrick</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663878</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Fitzpatrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 00:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663878</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m mostly a Dark Horse manga fan kind of a guy.

Tho&#039;, I kinda like DEATH NOTE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m mostly a Dark Horse manga fan kind of a guy.</p>
<p>Tho&#8217;, I kinda like DEATH NOTE.</p>
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		<title>By: Danielle Leigh</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663876</link>
		<dc:creator>Danielle Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 00:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663876</guid>
		<description>hi Baron -- I&#039;ll be honest and note I&#039;m not sure about this but wonder if most comic book companies / publisher distinguish between &quot;work for hire&quot; and &quot;original creative work&quot;?  (i.e. hiring someone to ink some else&#039;s creative vision versus hiring someone to create from scratch an entire work?  Or, in this case, buying a work created independently, but only if it is judged to have some kind of merit / sale-ability.)

Or am I missing some thing vital about what it means to produce creative work for a corporation?

I&#039;m not being snarky, by the way, I just see T&#039;pop&#039;s notion of a &quot;contract&quot; here insanely unfair and am trying to figure out how bad it really is if we look at real world expectations of what comic book creators should receive....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi Baron &#8212; I&#8217;ll be honest and note I&#8217;m not sure about this but wonder if most comic book companies / publisher distinguish between &#8220;work for hire&#8221; and &#8220;original creative work&#8221;?  (i.e. hiring someone to ink some else&#8217;s creative vision versus hiring someone to create from scratch an entire work?  Or, in this case, buying a work created independently, but only if it is judged to have some kind of merit / sale-ability.)</p>
<p>Or am I missing some thing vital about what it means to produce creative work for a corporation?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not being snarky, by the way, I just see T&#8217;pop&#8217;s notion of a &#8220;contract&#8221; here insanely unfair and am trying to figure out how bad it really is if we look at real world expectations of what comic book creators should receive&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: The Baron</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663870</link>
		<dc:creator>The Baron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 23:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663870</guid>
		<description>Work for hire is not exactly uncommon in comics either. Is getting payed per page of pitch usual? i&#039;ve not heard of it, and rates for finished scripts for beginners are usually appauling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Work for hire is not exactly uncommon in comics either. Is getting payed per page of pitch usual? i&#8217;ve not heard of it, and rates for finished scripts for beginners are usually appauling.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Cronin</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663864</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Cronin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 22:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663864</guid>
		<description>Yeah, it&#039;s ridiculous.

I would differ on one slight, minor point - poorly written contracts are a &lt;em&gt;slight&lt;/em&gt; aid for the party that did not write them, for ambiguity almost always goes AGAINST the party who constructed the contract (as just a matter of natural fairness - if you write a crappy contract, you can&#039;t get the benefit of possibly misleading the other party due to your poor writing).

But yeah, it&#039;s a joke of a deal. Very lame, and also, yes, fairly unsurprising, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s ridiculous.</p>
<p>I would differ on one slight, minor point &#8211; poorly written contracts are a <em>slight</em> aid for the party that did not write them, for ambiguity almost always goes AGAINST the party who constructed the contract (as just a matter of natural fairness &#8211; if you write a crappy contract, you can&#8217;t get the benefit of possibly misleading the other party due to your poor writing).</p>
<p>But yeah, it&#8217;s a joke of a deal. Very lame, and also, yes, fairly unsurprising, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Lea Hernande</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/27/manga-before-flowers-news-flash-corporations-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-663861</link>
		<dc:creator>Lea Hernande</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 22:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=16885#comment-663861</guid>
		<description>Thanks for getting the word out. Doing that is not negative!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for getting the word out. Doing that is not negative!</p>
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