Comic Book Resources

I’m very interested into seeing why this has occurred. Drama.

Yeah, it does seem kinda dramatic, doesn’t it?

Well, I’m back off Robin again, after dropping it back in 1994.

after thinking about this a bit, i am sure this has to do with the fallout of the RIP storyline and how it effected dixion’s stories going forward.

but would love to be proven wrong.

So, whose wife did he screw?

Maybe, it’s a matter of whose wife he didn’t screw.

“Hell hath no fury of a woman scorned”

I think Nadir’s leaning in the right direction. For a response this abrupt, I’d have to imagine a note from editorial along the lines of: “Okay, staff, after Final Crisis, Damien is Robin and Tim is trapped in the Phantom Zone. So anyone whose books this affects, keep that in mind.”

I found this pretty odd, too. The suddenness of it is so surprising, you have to wonder what caused it.

It’s a real pity, as I’ve found his Batman and the Outsiders to be… well, competent, really. It’s not the best book I’ve ever read, but it’s decent enough to keep reading.

Are his books not selling well?
I would’ve thought getting Dixon back on the Bat books would have been a bit of a coup for DC as he’s name is so closely associated with them.

But then I thought that with Shooter on the Legion as well.

Not really on topic, but that is some crappy message board software. I’ve always hated the ones where you have to click on every single message to read it, rather than being able to select a “flat” or “inline” view where all the messages in the thread are all visible and you just have to scroll through them.
On the Chuck Dixon side, too bad there’s no embittered intern to leak the details on the web, this is so damn vague.

I found it interesting on his message board that he mentions even when not working at DC, royalties and such still make up the bulk of his income.

(Royalties from DC that is)

I guess I’m just an old man, but I thought it was kind of nice that he just let the bare fact lie and didn’t add in some sort of rant.

I’m sorry to hear it; I like his work, especially on the Bat-books. I was hoping maybe DC would let him take a swing at a Western down the road. It’s a shame he won’t be doing work on their characters, because he’s done very well there. But the reasons for his departure aren’t really our business.

It could be Batman RIP fallout, but I’m not sure I buy that — maybe I’ve got rose-colored glasses, but I should think that the writers of the Bat books would have been aware of the fallout from RIP and how it affected their books for a while now.

I guess I’m just an old man, but I thought it was kind of nice that he just let the bare fact lie and didn’t add in some sort of rant.

Well that way at least it’s probably not something permanent… I find it odd when creators do rant against a company for just deciding to go with someone us – in such a small industry, why burn a bridge unless you really never want to cross it again?
(Like that small time creator (no offense to them, but they weren’t big enough to be certain of work elsewhere) who put up a big rant about a Vertigo series that didn’t take off, and whinged about everything from the lobby to Shelly Bond’s clothing).

So, are they putting Spoiler back in the fridge now that Dixon is gone? Seems rather abrupt and hot on the heels of something most of fandom was overly happy about. Did he step on someone’s toes when he wrote it? Upset with something he was being forced to do for Batman RIP? Outsiders?

Seems so odd that DC and Dixon are both being so hush hush over this. Not even a “difference of opinions” or other PR spin. Just no comment.

Maybe Didio realized that Dixon brought Spoiler back not to abuse her some more or rape her then kill her again but rather to actually write good stories about her. Or maybe it was Dixon’s insistence on continuing to write coherent, good stories. usually Didio can succeed in getting even good writers like Bruce Jones and Paul Dini to produce dreck, but Dixon seemed to be resisting the influence and continuing to write well. When Didio realized Dixon wasn’t intending to start sucking anytime soon that was probably all she wrote.

Dang!! His original Robin run was how I first got into comics. I was about nine or ten years old and the grocery store had some DC comics. First I started reading Robin because I was a kid and he was a kid, and then about my sixth consecutive issue in I started picking up Nightwing and Green Arrow regularly. I didn’t know they were all the same writer back then, I just thought “Dixon” and “O’Neil” were The DC Guys because every DC comic I looked at had one of those names. Of course, it didn’t occur to me that they were writers. They were just The DC Guys.

For a while since 2006, there weren’t enough comics I was interested in to get me ALL THE WAY down to the shop (where most likely I’d have to put up with buying from a jerk behind the counter). But Batman and the Outsiders by Dixon was enough to put me over the edge and get me there. I hadn’t picked up his new Robin work yet, the comic that started it all, but I was going to.

I don’t have enough comics to get me into that shop anymore. It’s a shame.

This has to be BIG!

It’s one thing to be off a title; that usually means you had a fight with the Editor. But to be gone from the company… That means he either fought with Dan Didio, or somebody caught him stealing paper from the copy machine!

But just in case, I doubt it has to do with Batman R.I.P.; He should be done with that story by now. But if I were to put money on something like that… I would bet that it’s because Robin gets killed (or raped, this is DC after all) in Final Crisis and nobody has bothered to tell him yet.

“but I should think that the writers of the Bat books would have been aware of the fallout from RIP and how it affected their books for a while now.”

Considering what’s happened with regards Countdown / DOTNG and the opening of Final Crisis, I’d be surprised if anyone there knows what day it is at this point.

God forbid anyone question Grant Morrison’s designs to bring down the Batman universe. I’ve thought about this. Everyone I think assumes Morrison’s going to leave writing DC imprint books relatively soon after Final Crisis and R.I.P stuff is done with, he’s even initimated in interviews he’s heading back to write more experimental stuff soon. So is it actually wise to give a very talented writer the reigns of one of your flagship franchises, when you know he’s not going to stick around and pick up the pieces?
I say the boost in sales is offset by any grave damage done to the character. I’m enjoyng his run, but have concerns over its long-term damage.

No sense worrying about long-term damage to Batman, King. The next guy can just undo it if need be. To keep on point, I’ll even use an example from Chuck Dixon:

Spoiler: “I’m not dead. Yeah, I know everyone thought I was but I’m not.”

Easy-peasy.

Jack Norris:
“Not really on topic, but that is some crappy message board software. I’ve always hated the ones where you have to click on every single message to read it, rather than being able to select a “flat” or “inline” view where all the messages in the thread are all visible and you just have to scroll through them.”

I do have a flat view where I can just scroll through them. Try this link: http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/06/11/chuck-dixon-out-at-dc/

That’s the one I get to through the RSS feed

It’s obvious. Chuck Dixon was marvel_b0y.

Sad thing is, perhaps I’m to blame. Just the other day I was looking into buying all the Bat-books Dixon has ever done that I don’t have. Last time I did that, the second Superbuddies arc got delayed and most the characters killed off.

I find it amusing that people just assume his leaving has to have something to do with something someone at DC (Didio or Morrison) did to him. Someone doesn’t like Batman RIP or Final Crisis, so you blame that. You don’t like Didio, blame him, since he’s obviously the worst thing to EEEEEVER happen to comics. Ever think that this may actually have nothing to do with DC? Ever stop to think that something might have come up in Dixon’s personal life? There is a world outside of comics, and all the time, people have to leave their jobs because of something in their personal life. I don’t really mean to be defending DC here, but rather, just don’t be so quick to jump to conclussions. I was as happy as anybody when Dixon came back to Robin, and am unhappy that he’s leaving, but I’m not going to let that jade my own comic reading experience.

Actually, DKing, Morrison has said he’s got a whole ‘nother big long storyline for Batman planned out after RIP finishes up.

So is it actually wise to give a very talented writer the reigns of one of your flagship franchises, when you know he’s not going to stick around and pick up the pieces?

Ask the X-Men editors. You see the scramble they did to make sense of what Morrison left behind when he left THAT franchise.

Hey, Guys !!

T, I totally agree with you about what Morrison did with the X-Men franchise.
I’m really not a Morrison person & I don’t see what people see in his work but colors & tastes…( or big names surexposition)

Coming back to the subject, It’s not a surprise that that kind of thing happens actually at DC, suffice to read their comics especiially the events ones. Only Geoff Johns’ work finds grace in my eyes.

Hope for the bestt, prepare for the worst, stricly the WORST.

GOOD LUCK FOR THE FUTURE, MR. DIXON !!!

Actually I’d say the X-Editors scrambled to undo Morrison’s run first and make sense of it second, like the whole Cassandra Nova is Ernst…no she isn’t debacle.

Whatever, I hope Mr Dixon finds a nice place free of editorial edict where he can continue to knock out some great comics.

Let’s see… Dixon is leaving DC and Garth Ennis is finishing up his run on the Punisher. If only there was some way to turn this in to lemonade .

“Let’s see… Dixon is leaving DC and Garth Ennis is finishing up his run on the Punisher. If only there was some way to turn this in to lemonade .”

Machine gun toting Robin sworn to avenge the death of Spoiler at a family picnic.

Works for me.

Depending on how much you want to read into the language… “No longer employed by DC” suggests this is a result of DC’s action – DC is taking the action, Dixon is passive. Whereas if it were Dixon quitting, you might expect him to say “I am no longer working for DC in any capacity.”

Either way, I doubt any real details will come out of this. Dixon’s been around for a while, and probably knows better than to burn bridges – he’s not a big enough star to get away with that sort of thing.

Ever stop to think that something might have come up in Dixon’s personal life? There is a world outside of comics, and all the time, people have to leave their jobs because of something in their personal life.

Go back and re-read the quote. He didn’t say he’s stopping his comics work, he said he’s not working DC comics anymore.

So, that’s why.

Apodaca, I do agree that there probably was an issue at DC. However, I just think it’s bad to jump to conclusions and make accusations.

Ask the X-Men editors. You see the scramble they did to make sense of what Morrison left behind when he left THAT franchise.

Actually, they thought he was going to stay on long term, and so did he, but the editors and such let him down and so he went back to DC – it was so unexpected to Marvel that Joe Q yelled at him on the con floor when it was announced.
Rumours of telling him how/what to write and their total dropping of the ball when it came to the art side are apparently what drove him away.
It’s a bad idea to shit on the guy who you are trusting to revamp your franchise.

And what didn’t make sense with how Morrison left it?
He took it to a new place – instead they decided to start back sliding, and then have an event that also took it to a different place, just the opposite of what he did.
Morrison haters who like the books better now ,would’ve whinged if he’d left the book with 198 mutants remaining, and claimed that wasn’t fair as well.

Yawn,You fucking internet whiners don’t matter to Morrison. Fuck off.

Also: Fuck Chuck Dixon. Oh and its oviously all ‘The Big Bad Didio’s fault.
Fucking 14-year old Emo indie kids.

@Ryan: Retarded or Marvel Apolgist? Both ARE mutually exclusive.

@T.
We know you were one of the wrist-slitters when Steph died , Give it a rest you Over-pcfied Marvel Apologist.

DanCJ: I didn’t mean the comments here at CSBG, I meant Dixon’s message board, the one the link in the initial post takes you to.

Of course, we don’t have a *right* to know or anything, but it’s natural to be curious, and I was half-jokingly wishing for a disgruntled intern in the marvel bo1 mode, which of course then wouldn’t be Dixon’s fault.

Also, there were some great story opportunities in the X-Books after Morrison left, even by other writers (I don’t agree at all with the notion that he left a situation only he could have worked within, and from what interviews around the time seem to say, neither did he), the worst damage was done by editorial’s attempts to “fix” things and roll back to the status quo.
If anything, every move Marvel has made in regards to the mutant situation has been to limit the kind of stories that could be told with these characters in comparison to the rich frontier of opportunity Morrison left in place. Decimation is only the most baldly literal example. The whole “cut back their numbers to make them more special” argument was idiotic.

BTW, Abe-El, you’re a troll. Go dive under a bus.

If anything, every move Marvel has made in regards to the mutant situation has been to limit the kind of stories that could be told with these characters in comparison to the rich frontier of opportunity Morrison left in place. Decimation is only the most baldly literal example. The whole “cut back their numbers to make them more special” argument was idiotic.

Wait, but wasn’t this one of the reasons Morrison annihilated Genosha early on in the run? To make mutants more special? I’m pretty sure I read that in an interview somewhere. If it’s an idiotic argument in Decimation, then I assume it must have been idiotic an idiotic argument when Morrison did it as well.

Wait, but wasn’t this one of the reasons Morrison annihilated Genosha early on in the run? To make mutants more special? I’m pretty sure I read that in an interview somewhere. If it’s an idiotic argument in Decimation, then I assume it must have been idiotic an idiotic argument when Morrison did it as well.

Genosha getting destroyed swung public opinion about mutants, in much the same way that the Holocaust changed a lot of opinions about Jewish people.
It was the tipping point from fearful acceptance, to whole acceptance.
Before it you had the ‘Friends Of Humanity’ who hated mutants, after it you had the U-Men who wanted to be mutants.
It’s mentioned several times in the comic how the tragedy had benefits for them in the realm of public opinion.
(Partially why Cassandra Nova/Sublime did it).

I’m not a Morrison fan by any means, but his attempts to give mutants their own sub-culture and to give the tired old ‘a world that hates and fears them’ shtick a boot in the butt were a nice change of pace.

“DanCJ: I didn’t mean the comments here at CSBG, I meant Dixon’s message board, the one the link in the initial post takes you to.”

Duh – forget everything I said then

Is Abe-El an alias GM uses?

I agree, I’m not the biggest GM fan, and while I didn’t care for the details of his work on X-men, I liked some of the general ideas he introduced, the mutant subculture being his best one (that and he made Scott and Jean interesting again after years and years of blah stories about them). It was a nice change, and it was about time, the constant total hatred and fear of mutants had gotten stale. So yeah, in my opinion, Marvel did drop the ball with decimation. And I didn’t mind that they got rid of Genosha, because even after they got rid of it, there were still millions and millions of mutants left in the world. Decimation only left a few hundred…

Back to the main topic, I am curious as to what happened. Dixon has done a lot for DC over the years, particularly the Bat-universe. To be dumped by the company is strange, but I’m holding out for more details before making a final judegment….

The first thing that came to my mind when I saw the Chuck Dixon news I assumed it was because of his homophobia. Someone has updated his wikipedia entry to state this rumour as well.

I’d like to know what that rumor’s based on, jc, because it seems really unlikely to me. I’ve seen the interview with Dixon’s statement on how he feels about homosexuality in comics and I do think that it’s expressing a homophobic POV, but he seems to have been professional enough to not have let it get in the way of working on stories with gay characters — re: Midnighter/Grifter & BatO (my opinions on the quality of that work notwithstanding). It seems that it would take something major, like all of those Batman & Robin jokes being treated as canon, for him to just walk away from DC on account of those views.

The first thing that came to my mind when I saw the Chuck Dixon news I assumed it was because of his homophobia. Someone has updated his wikipedia entry to state this rumour as well.

And someone else has taken it out, so that really doesn’t amount to anything, does it?

homphobia! oh god!
Well…I think it has to do with editorial fighting and wranglings… I heard somewhere that Dixon writes his stories well in advance… He obviously was going somewhere with his run….so, maybe he was told he couldn’t write his story, either due to RIP or Final Crisis. It better not be because Damion is going to become Robin, unless… Tim does like Dick and he grows out of the character and he evovles into his own…that would be cool… but I’m afraid that this is not going to turn out cool…

I’d like to know what that rumor’s based on, jc, because it seems really unlikely to me. I’ve seen the interview with Dixon’s statement on how he feels about homosexuality in comics and I do think that it’s expressing a homophobic POV, but he seems to have been professional enough to not have let it get in the way of working on stories with gay characters — re: Midnighter/Grifter & BatO (my opinions on the quality of that work notwithstanding). It seems that it would take something major, like all of those Batman & Robin jokes being treated as canon, for him to just walk away from DC on account of those views.

Actually, when he started on Midnighter and Grifter, he spoke about how he felt he misrepresented his views in the article where that came out and revised them.
They weren’t as accepting as you’d like, but better than they had been.
I think he said something like his problem was more about characters who’d never been portrayed as gay suddenly becoming gay, but had no problem with characters who’d been created as gay – such as Midnighter.

Actually, I agree with CD. It seems like they make certain characters gay fort eh sake of being gay. And worse, they make characters who in the past have shown no inclination to being gay, and were in fact womanizers (like the Living Lighting, or the hints about Rictor), or people who were involved in relationships but suddenly woke up one day and became gay (like Obsidian). Sorry, but being a womanizer or having problems with women isn’t a sign of being gay, and while you can make the argument that they were ‘covering’ or whatever, it does seem like a cheap stunt either way. It works with characters like Karma, however, whose pasts were ambiguous enough that having them become gay doesn’t go against what was presented before.

If you mean Rictor from X-Force, he was always gay.
At least people thought so for a long time before he came out.

What’s wrong with a character being revealed as gay for the sake of having gay characters? Diversity is a worthy goal, and I’d rather have that, than some ridiculous plot designed around the revelation. That marginalizes the trait more, in my opinion. People don’t come out because they are trying to make a social point, they come out because they’re gay.

As for the lack of previous indication, that is actually fairly realistic. There have been plenty of people who married the opposite sex and had children, only to realize later on that they were gay. Or how about the numerous celebrities who create public facades of heterosexuality that work to convince thousands of fans?

I don’t think most people thought that way about Rictor till the Jeph Loeb run. Prior to that, he was presented mostly as straight guy. The hints about him and Shatterstar didn’t start up until then…

Sorry, but revealing someone to be gay just for the sake of being gay or having a gay character to fill some type of quota, without taking into account their past history, seems like a cheap stunt designed to attract mainstream media attention about how diverse comic books have become. The lack of previous indication isn’t all that realistic either. We don’t know what gay people in straight marriages or closeted celebrities are thinking, we only know how they act in public. We, on the other hand, do get to see comic book characters private thoughts. It’s hard to accept when we’ve seen thought balloons of, say for example, a male character thinking thoughts in thought balloons like “Wow, she’s hot!” or “I love her” or “What’s she doing with that jerk? I’ll treat her far better than he can, and I love her more!” or whatever. It’s not like we saw them thinking (like I’m sure a closeted person would) thoughts like “Hmm, better start flirting with that chick so people don’t thin I’m gay” or “Hey, if I hook up with her, I’ll prove to myself that I’m straight!” or whatever.

Which is why the Karma being gay thing works. We never knew what her orientation was. Maybe it’s because she was older than the rest of the New Mutants, maybe Claremont didn’t want her to hook up with any of the other characters, whatever, but she was never really involved in the Archie sub-plots the other characters were involved in. We never saw her, for example, pining away for someone the way Wolfsbane did for Cannonball.

I’m not against characters being revealed to be gay, I just prefer seeing some set-up for it if we haven’t seen any prior indication of it in the past.

Last I heard, PAD was having too much fun hinting that Rictor is bi to ever just out him. Won’t anybody think of the poor bisexuals?

Anyway, back to Dixon. All I was trying to say was that I haven’t seen an indication that he feels strongly enough about homosexuality in comics that he’d just walk away from DC over it, unless editorial started telling him something along the lines of Batbooks now having a lesbian make-out quota to meet and he’s short by three this month.

Actually, I am aware of what some gay people in closeted marriages were and are thinking, because I have talked to them in person. They were usually in deep denial themselves, and often didn’t even consider that their sexual orientation might be the cause for their difficulties with their straight relationships. Most chalked it up to the relationships being loveless or stagnant. This is supporting my suspicion that you’ve never actually met someone who realized they were gay, after being in a straight relationship. There’s a lot of social conditioning that happens to all of us, which can influence even our inner thoughts and feelings. It is also entirely possible to love someone in a purely platonic way, and people are often confused by that.

And first you say that you don’t buy any previous behavior being portrayed as closeted, and then you say you want set-up for gay characters. You can’t expect every gay character to be out and proud from the moment they land on the scene. That’s not the way the world works.

Actually, I have, and was basing it on their experiences, just as you were basing your thoughts and opinions on the gay people you knew.

The point is, we don’t see any of that thinking presented on-panel. A writer will decide he either wants to make a character gay, or needs a gay character, so “Character X wakes up one day and is gay, and was gay all along.

Of course I don’t buy characters being portrayed as closeted because we’ve never had any that were portrayed that way, with the possible exception of Northstar, though most readers assumed he was long before he came out, since it was planned that way and most writers dropped clues consistently. No character has really been presented as portrayed as closeted, so what is there for me to buy? Most gay characters these days are either introduced as being gay, or wake up one day and are suddenly announcing they are gay, with no set-up at all. Just because i don’t buy the previous behavior, which was pretty non-existent, doesn’t mean I don’t want to see a plausible, realistic set-up. Especially when the previous set-ups are rarely done with the intention of making the characters gay.

People don’t come out because they are trying to make a social point, they come out because they’re gay.

That’s why I think comic writers get a bit carried away with it, because they are doing it to make a social point.

As for the lack of previous indication, that is actually fairly realistic. There have been plenty of people who married the opposite sex and had children, only to realize later on that they were gay. Or how about the numerous celebrities who create public facades of heterosexuality that work to convince thousands of fans?

Makes less sense in characters whose heads we’ve been able to see inside, and never caught a mention of it.

That’s not the way the world works.

This is fiction, not the world.

If all comic writers were up to Alan Moore’s level, it would be less of an issue… but most aren’t, and these are the one’s who decide to grab a random character, and make them gay in the name of shock or realism.
It’s poor writing, and has been over done.

I’VE KNOWN CHUCK DIXON ON AND OFF FOR A WHOLE BUNCH OF YEARS AND WHATEVER THE RAP AGAINST HIM IS IT’S B.S.!!! CHUCK HAS HIS OWN POINT OF VIEW ON THE WORLD AND I DON’T ALWAYS AGREE WITH HIM BUT HE’S AS FAIR AND HONEST (MAYBE THAT’S THE PROBLEM HERE, EDITORS LOVE RUMP KISSERS) AS ANYBODY IN COMICS. IT’S A DAMN SHAME WHEN YOUR HONESTY CAN GET YOU IN DEEPER THAN TELLING LIES AND GOING WITH THE FLOW WEATHER IT’S RIGHT WRONG OR JUST PLAIN STUPID. CHUCK WILL LAND ON HIS FEET AND KEEP DOING WHAT HE’S BEEN DOING FOR YEARS, DELIVERING THE GOODS!