I kind of like how the Secret Invasion stuff is playing out. You get the more character and detailed plot stuff in the Avengers books and you get your major action and plot beats in Secret Invasion. They compliment each other well. And the spinoffs aren’t that necessary but hey if you’re that type of person who wants to know Captain Britain’s perspective of the Invasion well there’s a book for that. I’m sticking mainly with the Avengers and Secret Invasion. But hey there’s that option.

But I’m digging Final Crisis. There’s just an oddness about I can’t resist. I’m also one of those few people who sort of likes not knowing who every character is and their backstory. If I really want to know wikipedia can give me a hand. Otherwise I’m enjoying the confusion so far. I think it does a better job because who in this story is important and who isn’t and what roles they play.

I guess I’m easy to please

So in terms of that, I’m wondering exactly where in the timeline FC is supposed to fit in. Is it *really* supposed to sit alongside all the other monthlies, or is it more of a kind of “What if” type affair that isn’t taking place in the here and now, but just a little further down the line time-wise…a kind of “this is the impending end of all things for everyone, but it’ll never actually happen because it takes place, uh, next week or something”.

Yeah, that’s the one. I think.

I don’t like big events for their event-ness, I like or dislike them based on the story itself, and on the stories they make possible in other titles. (I didn’t read any mainline House of M, but I have since read some decent interesting stories produced by its premise).

I like the large scope of the FC story, but I don’t care whether it effects other titles or not.

Final Crisis works for me on its own merits, and makes me work to get what I can from it, which is something that I often need in an otherwise over-priced for the amount of entertainment medium/genre.

Rohann, I think the point John was making was that, for some, it’s a bit hard to feel any interest about the ramifications of FC while Trinity is still ongoing, particularly when it comes to the Big 3. Maybe it’s a mistake for DC to be releasing both series at the same time? I think Trinity should have been released after FC, as a series to define the Big 3 in the post-FC status quo. There are also times when I feel why is Busiek defining who Batman is when “Batman RIP” is still on going, and is supposed to CHANGE BATMAN FOREVER!!! I don’t blame Busiek or Morrison for this, however, I just feel this is bad planning by the higher-ups at DC.

….aren’t we the ones who said we wanted events that didn’t spill into every title going? Didn’t we say we wanted to read our ongoing series without them being sucked into the crossover du jour?

Certainly, I have said that, and it’s one of the things I approve of about both Final Crisis and Trinity. I have a hunch that FC will read better in trade– all Morrison’s work seems to go down better when it’s right there in one place, something that people tend to forget when he switches titles– but it pleases me a great deal that the other books are all chugging along fine.

Apart from everything else, it would be too expensive to keep up. I just canceled a bunch of my pulls at the shop simply because of price. If DC has figured out that today’s reaction to a line-wide crossover is a groan of “I can’t afford all this crap,” then more power to them.

I’m pretty sure they haven’t, but one can hope.

And yet we hardcore fans wonder why the Big Two don’t always listen to us… aren’t we the ones who said we wanted events that didn’t spill into every title going? Didn’t we say we wanted to read our ongoing series without them being sucked into the crossover du jour? I don’t mean to pick on you specifically, John, but I’ve heard this argument a lot in regards to FC, and it seems a little hypocritical.

And again, it’s hard to buy into this series as “Final Crisis, the Day Evil Won, the Biggest Crisis Ever, the Major Event to End All Major Events” when they’re also simultaneously saying, “But don’t worry, it won’t impact on your regular books you buy, and we’ve committed to a full year of Trinity.” It reduces FC in scope before it’s even started, making it feel overhyped before I can get a chance to enjoy it.

Sorry, but this is just one that’s leaving me cold right now. Maybe in five years, I’ll go back and pick it up and get more out of it, but as an “event”, it’s weak tea.

Of course, he might not have been thinking of that scene from JLA at all. And I’m becoming more convinced that MM and Barry- the fathers of the Silver Age- are going to become celestial beings of some sort by the end of this, so I clearly have no idea what I’m talking about.

“Oh, and about the attitude towards the Martian’s death: that’s not optimism, it’s being practical. How many major DC heroes have died and come back in the last few years? Come on, it’s one thing if one or two resurrections happen, but when nearly EVERY major member of the League has done it? You have to understand if they are getting doubtful about a heroes’ death being completely final.”

That line reminded me a lot of Metamorpho’s funeral in JLA #5. Except, you know, people actually turned up for the Manhunter.

Was he being chased by the bullet, or was he chasing it? It seemed to me he was trying to grab it as he was being chased by the Racer.

Oh, good call. Yeah, I could see it either way.

What the hell, Morrison!?!? Why haven’t you told us what the deal is already? FAILURE!!

And while I agree that Morrison is a great creator, he can also be *very* confusing until all the pieces of his puzzles have fallen in place… and sometimes even afterwards. So that IS a valid criticism, especially the part about Final Crisis being confusing to those who aren’t too familiar with the characters he’s using.

(As for the mess regarding nobody remembering the Death of the New Gods, that can be explained away very simply: The Source erased the memory of what happened from everyone so they would not interfere with its plans, whatever they are. And BTW: turning the Source (which was a stand-in for God) into an uncaring cosmic force? Worst Kirby tribute ever.)

But back to the FC story: frankly, I’m not impressed. Even if this was a story that stood on its own, with NO Big Crossover status or negative publicity, I would still be mildly interested at best. Nothing has hooked me yet; nor Manhunter’s death nor Flash’s return. Morrison needs to explain himself better, not to a ridiculous give-all-away -right now point, but certainly more clearly. My fear is that by the end, he’ll not bother to go back and explain everything (he’s done it before.)

Oh, and about the attitude towards the Martian’s death: that’s not optimism, it’s being practical. How many major DC heroes have died and come back in the last few years? Come on, it’s one thing if one or two resurrections happen, but when nearly EVERY major member of the League has done it? You have to understand if they are getting doubtful about a heroes’ death being completely final.

he has decided to do an extremely dark slow burn with Final Crisis, and while it might not be the type of story people had been expecting (it’s practically the polar opposite of the previous two Crisis mini-series), it is still quite well crafted.

I think expectations are a big part of it — we’ve all gotten used to events where plot and continuity are the most important elements. Last night I realized that Morrison is actually doing something different with the balance of storytelling elements: he’s making theme more important than plot. To put it differently, “why” is more important than “what” or “how.” And I think that’s throwing a lot of readers for a loop, because that’s not what they expect, and, for many, not what they want.

I think ultimately this is going to be a love-it-or-hate-it series, because of that.

I was on the bubble the whole issue whether or not I was going to pick this up as it came out or for cheap later. The last page sold it for me. Did the Black Chase Barry back in CoIE, or is that something Morrison came up with? Same thing with the “theotoxic” bullet. Is that new? All the action you needed the whole issue was right there. The book reads like a fever dream. I hope it wakes up by the end.