DC used to have every team with a clearly-defined role: the JLA were the earth's first line of defense, the JSA were the heroes who nurtured the history of super-heroes, the Titans were the family who understood that if anything happened to the JLA they were responsible for stepping up to the plate, and Young Justice was the future (which I think they actually came out and said in the miniseries that launched Grayson's Titans book).

Now things are fumbly. The Titans are back together for... well, no one really knows why, kicking Dick, Roy and Wally into roles they'd sort of grown out of (two JLA members and the JLA's reserve leader). The Teen Titans started off this time with a decent hook - less of a training ground, but more of a social gathering for them to blow off steam - but it's largely become a dumping ground for characters with nothing better to do and lost that concept (Ravager, Miss Martian and Kid Devil don't seem to do anything else, and neither does Wonder Girl for that matter - only Robin and Blue Beetle still cling to the idea that they're just there to get away from their normal lives). The JLA is taking seven issues to deal with Amazo and Solomon Grundy, which are decidedly small-scale threats compared to what they dealt with in the prior series. And the JSA is getting waaaaay too large for its own good. There's no defined roles for the individual teams aside from the Outsiders and Shadowpact, who at least you can point at and say "okay, they do covert strikes and magic-related stories."

For all I hated about the Obsidian Age, it really crystalised the structure of the teams in the DCU by showing how they all were, in one way or another, part of a larger organisation. Of course, keeping a structure like that in place rather than just paying lip service to it (Terrific and Mid-Nite showing up as the JLA's "tech support") needs a firm hand at editorial, and DC can't even make sure books go out without spelling mistakes right now.

But to get back to the main point: people read Robin (... until Willingham...) because it was Ultimate Spider-Man before Ultimate Spider-Man was cool: a solid book starring a likeable teen hero trying to balance his secret identity and the usual teenage problems. It's NOT a hard concept to do right. I don't mind characters not aging - in fact, I couldn't stand something like Byrne's Generations series - but there's ways to progress characters without aging them much via the team-based structure.

Mck: I'm pretty sure McKeever didn't write (or co-write) the back half of Titans East. Wasn't that Beechen, who was tapped to be the new writer and the replaced by McKeever?

I think Teen Titans has started to right itself a bit with the Terror Titans arc, but the problem for me has been that it feels like McKeever, particularly in the Titans of Tomorrow arc, has had to deal with storylines and plots hanging over from Johns' run. The same is true--and perhaps even worse--with JLA, where McDuffie is having to deal with not only the crossovers but tying up various threads initiated by Meltzer: Red Tornado's body, Vixen's powers, etc. I like McKeever and McDuffie both as writers, but their runs seem hamstrung by baggage.

Good writing and good stories win out. They might be harder if you can't do whatever you want with the characters, but that just means you have to be all the more creative and not take shortcuts.

Not to give more credit than is due to Teen Titans and McKeever, but after fighting three villain "titans" in a row, he had it pay off by Robin and Wonder Girl getting frustrated and going on about how this WAS a problem and how they have to be more and inspire the youth. It was heading somewhere.

Granted, we'll see where he takes things from here.

I think Neil Gaiman said best: all good stories have to end sometime.

As for the Titans, yeah, is like those videogames where you fight the same enemies all the time, they just level up. In this sense the best use of the "clubhouse superhero team" are Young Justice (just kids doing kid stuff) and Young Heroes in Love (they just naturally spent more worrying about who was hooking up with each one instead of fighting crime, very Melrose Place).

I mean, I know the Justice League is currently in cross-over hell at the moment, but normally the JLA goes out and does things -- you know, save the world. They don't just sit around in their headquarters and wait for evil counterparts/future selves to come and punk them out.

Reminds me of that South Park episode where Stan's "future self" comes around to teach him not to do drugs. "Titans, don't do bad things... or you could turn into THIS!"

'Cause, y'know, that's more "real."

Then it all made sense. The suddenly incomprehensible narrative. The "every issue they fight these other teens, just like last month!" sense that it was going on. Yep, that's DD.