Comic Book Resources

Thanks, that’s a good read. Reminds me of what I like about Miller in the first place, even if his tics threaten to overwhelm his work more with every passing year…

Now, this stuff is what Miller’s Ronin is all about!

It’s Miller’s time!

1) Whore
2) Whore
3) Whore
4) Whore
5) Ninja
6) Whore
7) Virgin
Ninja Whore
9) Virgin turned Ninja Whore
10) Funny clown.

?

Dude’s got issues.

Sad. You know what Frank Miller reminds me of? Those guys who hopelessly idolize tough, macho stuff, while being so not-macho themselves. Like the guy who’d love to join the army, but was rejected because he was too wimpy. And the resulting self-loathing makes them weird and crazy.

Oh well, I still like his Daredevil work, but the man himself just freaks me out more and more.

I love Daredevil work. Amazingly, I’ve yet to read Dark Knight Returns but that’s next on my list. I also love all of his Sin City stuff. Some stories aren’t as strong as others, but they are all pretty enjoyable, and some of them actually are quite good. In fact Sin City might be the manliest comic ever published. Am I being incoherent? I think I am.

“Sad. You know what Frank Miller reminds me of? Those guys who hopelessly idolize tough, macho stuff, while being so not-macho themselves. Like the guy who’d love to join the army, but was rejected because he was too wimpy. And the resulting self-loathing makes them weird and crazy.”

Even though it doesn’t show in his work as much as it does Miller’s, isn’t that pretty much Dave Sim’s bio?

Here’s my DC-centric response to the article -

http://zeppomarxist.blogspot.com/2008/07/10-reasons-why-frank-miller-shouldnt.html

So, who would likelier become Captain America — Miller or Sim?

probably miller, what with sim being canadian and all

Characters who are not heroes based on Maxim’s rather…questionable…version of 0Frank Miller’s list:

— Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, Captain America…hell, let’s just say 99% of all superheroes. If “ugly” is a criterion, I’m not quite sure how Bruce Waye — who even Miller treats as a hunk in ASBAR — could possibly count.
— Anyone who ever performs small kindnesses or does local charity work; those aren’t grand and epic in scale, and according to Miller the hero does “nothing” that isn’t big and epic.
— Daredevil is probably disqualified by the above, since stopping muggers isn’t exactly “epic.” Oddly, this item on the list has Miller approvingly citing Daredevil.
— In another weird contradiction, Daredevil shouldn’t count if heroes don’t need therapy, since Miller’s quote for the Nothing Small” item mentions a “nervous breakdown.” Doesn’t that, by definition, require therapy? For that matter, didn’;t Miller’s Daredevil run have Foggy and Natasha intervening precisely BECAUSE Matt was digging up graves, rushing into marriage, and destroying Heather Glenn’s life to force her into codependence with him while in the midst of such a breakdown?
— Anyone other than a heterosexual man or homosexual woman

Just to clarify, my beef is with Maxim in this instance, not Miller; the quotes Logan uses in the article don’t seem to line up all that well with the list items and Logan’s own summary of them. Nor do they fit terribly well with Miller’s body of works.

The thing that really unites Miller and Sim, I think, is their inability to keep themselves from shoving their views down the reader’s throats. I mean, I disagree with most of Chuck Dixon’s personal views, but the man prides himself on being able distance himself from it… I don’t know if he’s always completely successful, but compared to DKR, 300, and Cerebus, which repeatedly said “this is what you should believe,” I think he did pretty well.

>>Even though it doesn’t show in his work as much as it does Miller’s, isn’t that pretty much Dave Sim’s bio?

I immediately thought of Sim when I read the comment you were responding to. Both those guys make my skin crawl, maybe because I grew up with a certifiably crazy parent & don’t find anything about such a situation entertaining in the least.

The thing that really unites Miller and Sim, I think, is their inability to keep themselves from shoving their views down the reader’s throats.

No, what unites them is that they aren’t always PC and leftist. Lefty PC writers have been unable to keep from shoving their views down readers throats since the late 60s, it’s not something unique to Sims or Miller, it’s just that most of the readership shares the same lefty sensibilities so they don’t mind. You can’t tell me that Miller is preachier than, say, Denny O’Neil or Judd Winick or Steve Englehart or just about every Cap writer who attempted to address politics in the strip. In fact, most people can’t even agree on exactly what Miller’s politics ARE, so how exactly can he be super-preachy? He has a lot of political views in his books but rarely clearly comes down on one side or the other. His sense of satire is actually pretty subtle in comparison to your average lefty comic writer.

If you want a good look at a writer being preachy and just not letting it go, read Peter David’s Captain Marvel. He beat his point right into cancellation.

“Lefty PC writers have been unable to keep from shoving their views down readers throats since the late 60s”

Comic books are left wing? I missed that.

There’s no other genre or art form, which supports the notion of rugged individualism with greater enthusiasm than super hero comics. Free will and the individual’s ability to choose to follow a path of good or evil underpin the whole genre. That is not very left wing.

Sure the X-Men can look a little like a kibbutz sometimes and Chairmen of the Board do make great villains, but that is pretty small potatoes comparatively.

When Batman realises that poverty is the engine for most crime and starts to spend his money on creating jobs and regenerating east end of Gotham, rather than building batmobiles and satellites, then you may have a point, but that is not going to happen for some time.

“sense of satire is actually pretty subtle in comparison to your average lefty comic writer.”

I persevered with the ‘Frank Miller is being ironic’ line well into the ‘Nineties, but it became too glaringly obvious that I was just reading his fantasies. It is a shame, because I do think that for a while there, he was saying some quite interesting things about America and the rest of the world. President Ken Wind from his Elektra mini-series looks remarkably prescient twenty years later – Wind certainly stands up a whole lot better than sub-Orwellian societies depicted by Alan Moore at about the same time.

The thing that really unites Miller and Sim, I think, is their inability to keep themselves from shoving their views down the reader’s throats.

Huh, I actually think one the strong points of DKR actually is the conflicting views portrayed throughout in the TV commentaries and the social commentary that comes along with that.

And what’s wrong with an artist trying to bring across his worldview? I’d pretty much encourage that in any form of art, wether it’s on a political or personal level (or both). As long as they’re doing it in an engaging way, which Miller did with the bulk of his work, I don’t see the problem. Some here make him sound like some kind of televangelist, just ’cause the guy likes a certain kind of protagonist. And I agree with Omar, the article has quite some internal contradictions. Don’t forget Maxim published these ‘commandments’, not Miller, like Omar already said.

I persevered with the ‘Frank Miller is being ironic’ line well into the ‘Nineties, but it became too glaringly obvious that I was just reading his fantasies.

The two aren’t mutually contradictory. I’d say there are correct elements to both of those, based on reading Eisner/Miller.

Of course, “I was just reading (someone’s) fantasies” is true of every single work of fiction that’s ever been produced in every culture throughout the history of th world.

“Of course, “I was just reading (someone’s) fantasies” is true of every single work of fiction that’s ever been produced in every culture throughout the history of th world.”

Okay, both fantasy and fiction requires a writer to invent characters and situations, so I’ll concede that the above statement is literally true, but I still think we know the difference between an author writing fiction and a Walter-Mitty-type sharing their daydreams when we see it.

My oppinion that Frank Miller is a pathetic creep has nothing to do with his politics.

I wouldn’t even classify Miller as “right-wing”. For one, unlike most conservatives, Miller is extremely suspicious of traditional authorities and hierarchies. His depiction of Christian priests as almost always corrupt isn’t a hallmark of a classic conservative.

No, what makes him pathetic is that he is a soft-spoken, skinny, unhealthy-looking artiste that probably was never in a physical fight in his life and would break his wrist if he tried to shoot a gun. He is pathetic because he is so different from the image he idolizes.

But maybe this isn’t as different from most comic book people that dream of violent alpha males while being so not-alpha male in real life? Perhaps. But Frank Miller takes things to an extreme, because his fantasies are so violent, sex-charged, and primal. And they also seem to be all-consuming, because ALL of his work is a long ode to the kind of man he wished he were, but isn’t.

And that is sad.

P.S.: I can’t speak too much about Dave Sim, since I don’t know his work. That my comments could apply him too is probably a coincidence. But from what I’ve heard, Sim and Miller could be close cousins, if you consider their mental states. They’re both pathetic boy-men consumed by extreme macho dreams.

I’d say it’s a pity Miller never took on the original Hawk & Dove (“Year One,” anyone?), but the way he tried to out-Ditko Ditko with the Question in Dark Knight 2: Electric Boogaloo makes me afeared.

Not as afeared as the trailer for Sin City 2: This Time It’s Called “The Spirit” made me, mind you.