Comic Book Resources

So that's Deadpool for Top 50, fuzzy Beast for the history books, and Alan Moore for prom queen.

I'm declaring shenanigans. The vote should be honored and the top vote getter, Superman Annual # 11, should be the selection. The most notable comic with an issue numbered "11" is clearly "For the Man Who Has Everything." I had never even heard of the story in Deadpool #11, and I don't believe that "what comic do you think of when you think of 'Issue 11'" is the proper criteria to judge how "notable" an issue is. A comic isn't notable because somebody remembers the issue number, it's notable because people remember the story, and I don't think there can be any doubt that far more people are aware of "For the Man Who Has Everything" than any Deadpool story. I think you should determine your selections based on the content of the issue, not the ability of people to remember the exact number of the issue. Just my opinion, though, it is your show.

It's funny, before reading the comments on this poll, I had no idea what took place in Superman Annual 11 or Amazing Adventures 11 based on just title and issue number. The only content I knew by issue number was Deadpool 11 out of that group.

Hey Brian, I think you should run a contest where you list a couple of important titles/issue numbers and ask us readers to name what happened in said titles/issue numbers. Without referring to the comment section.

Personally, I have trouble believing that there's more than 100 people out there who could find any Deadpool story better than For the Man Who Has Everything.

I'm not saying that just the Superman voters weren't being honest, I doubt the whole thing.

Cronin, thy name is Mugabe

I was thinking more of an Eric Cartman, from the "Freak Strike" episode.

Josh P,

I was in the same boat, sort of. I have no experience with what happened in Superman Annual 11 or Deadpool 11 aside from what was commented here. But, I knew Amazing Adventures 11.

Theno

Oddly, even though I KNOW of (heard of, seen animated adaptations of, only read various pages of) the "For the Man Who Has Everything" Superman story, I obviously wouldn't know which issue number it was...(and, yes. I'm a bad man for never having read that. I will. Soon.)...

and I actually HAVE that Amazing Adventures issue, but it doesn't strike me as anything momentous (cool, yes, but not really much else besides a "costume change" that stuck with the fans...until they made another "costume-change"...into a cat)...

...and even though I own, read and laughed with the Deadpool issue, again, it's number had no special meaning to me. It was simply a great little story in an otherwise wacky series.

SO, when the number 11 is mentioned as an ISSUE of something, and having weight and importance and bearing with that number, I ALWAYS think of:

MAN-THING v2 # 11,

http://www.comicvine.com/man-thing-/37-21379/

...wherein, Chris Claremont DIES, Doctor Strange DIES. LOTS of DYING by many characters..Jim Shooter is IN the STORY and cancels the book at the end.
AND that not only is it the LAST ISSUE of that series' run... but the cornerbox has a sad little portrait of the Man-Thing... crying. And waving "bye-bye".

C'MON!
Who here can pass the lone tear streaming from the oh, so sad KEANE-painting eyes of the Macabre MAN-THING as he holds out his paw...er...claw... like a puppy-dog?

If you can, you simply have no heart.

~P~

Gotta agree with Capper. Makes more sense for the criteria to be "what is the most noteworthy #11" rather than "what is most famous for being an #11". I can see the argument for more people recalling DEADPOOL being an #11, but in terms of "noteworthiness" there's not a lot of competition with"For the Man Who has Everything", and until this pick it seemed that was the point of the countdown.

Personally, I think going down the path of "which do most people recall as being the issue number" is fraught with danger... for starters, it's gonna vary according to each demographic of comic book fan. If it's just a majority rule then you'd end up with a lot of modern crap on the list. And how is "a lot" defined anyway? The comic book audience is pretty miniscule these days.

I mean, it's your list Brian, but I just think the idea of a countdown of the top 50 notable comics by issue number was a pretty cool, simple idea - and as an added bonus, juding notability is pretty subjective anyway (although arguably more easily quantifiable--most people can agree the Superman Annual is more important than DEADPOOL #11). But wondering which comic is synonymous with the number seems like more of an objective assessment and is gonna lead to quandries like this one (not to mention the fact that each issue number is going to mean something different to each person).

Hmm, SSC. If only it had John Kowalski in it, I'd be sold.

I have never read an issue of Deadpool so it means nothing to me. However "For the Man Who Has Everything" is a classic that has lived on in many reprints in the Greatest Stories and having an adaptation in the JLU. Not to mention the numbers just do not add up...I am sorry when is less suddenly more?

I don't understand why everyone thinks the numbers don't add up. Doesn't the site get enough traffic for three hundred votes to be possible?

When I saw the poll, my first reaction was, "hey, is that Superman Annual the 'For the Man Who Has Everything' story by Alan Moore?" No, I didn't recognize it by it's number, and I personally don't think of specific issues when a number is thrown at me, so I voted for noteworthiness, and that Superman Annual is definitely that.

What a crock.

"I don't like the results, so this is what's gonna happen."

Dictator.

I'm not even sure what the criteria for getting on this list are anymore. Notable firsts seem to trump everything else, probably rightly, but I tend to like the choices that are cool stories in their own right.

I do know that of the three choices, Deadpool was the one where I had no idea what happened in the 11th issue. I'll take people's word for it that it's a funny one, but it had no significance to me and thus, no vote.

You're the Mugabe of the Comic Blogs, Cronin.

I'm not sure where the controversy here lies. The Superman Annual got the most votes therefore it should be the issue of choice. I've been buying comics for 25+ years and I have no clue what even happens in Deadpool #11. But "For The Man Who Has Everything" is a certifiable classic and I think it deserves the nod in your countdown.

Wow from that description, MAN-THING v2 # 11 sounds AWESOME. Let's re-do the poll, I'll vote for that.

Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.

SanctumSanctorumComix said:

"Who here can pass the lone tear streaming from the oh, so sad KEANE-painting eyes of the Macabre MAN-THING as he holds out his paw…er…claw… like a puppy-dog?"

I HATE KEANE PAINTINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's why I can't do most manga, because the huge, bulging eyes weird me out.

When you posted the poll, Brian, I almost said "Dude, screw the poll, go with your gut" but didn't, mainly 'cause I knew you would anyway.

Never ceases to amaze me what my fellow comics fans will choose to whine about, though, even though you never said you were going to make your decision based solely on the poll. Even if the poll had been completely fair and honest - no doubt far more people have read "For The Man Who Has Everything" than DP11, 'cause the character's much more popular and the story's much older -- but that doesn't make it better, or even necessarily more iconic as an individual issue.

Anyway, good choice! Deadpool 11 easily deserves its glorious slot in comics history, and there'll surely be enough Superman on this list anyway.

Quote: [i]buttler
July 9, 2008 at 12:11 pm

Hmm, SSC. If only it had John Kowalski in it, I’d be sold.[/i]

Oh.... you KNOW it had John Kowalski in it.

Who is THAT, the others might ask?
Why, just the latest agent of DEATH (it isn't always a hot chick with a skull face, it is a rotationary position and you can be tagged to become "death", as was John).

But, besides that, a NEW agent of Death is selected, and she's a hot chick who still has all her flesh.
So, the fan-boys got some hot goth-looking death for an issue.

Did I ALSO mention that the story features a centuries old cursed, satyr named; KHORDES?
Did I also mention that it deals with GHOST PIRATES?
And did I also forget to add that it deals with a possessed pirate cutlass (the magus sword) that turns the local sheriff into a demonic agent?

And lastly, it also features the female sorcerers of the M.U. (Clea, Margalai Szardos, Amanda /Jermaine Szardos & Jennifer Kale)?

Well it DOES.

Oh, and Dakimh the Enchanter & Thog the Netherspawn are the big magical forces of good and evil in this.

So, what's NOT to love?

~P~
PTOR

I want to change my vote to Man-Thing v2 #11.

Well, awright!

NEW VOTE!

Everybody jump on my Man-Thing.... er...wait.

hahaha... anyway, as one LAST note:
Dakimh is seen "closing up shop" at the end and he gives a nod to Steve Gerber.

So, who's with me?

~P~
PTOR

I'm with Capper. Let's get our brooms!

Now, it's been a while since I read those series, but as I recall that was Claremont's homage to the end of Man-Thing's first series, which had Steve Gerber show up as a character. Which hardly makes it any less awesome, mind you.

Good decision, Brian.

As for those calling for a change to the list's selection criteria, those calls could've been made BEFORE we were 35% through the list. I mean, has no one read a more compelling first issue than Action Comics #1? Heck, Geoff Johns' Teen Titans #1 (where it was revealed that half of Superboy's DNA comes from Lex Luthor) isn't that great of an issue, but it is more interesting to read than Action Comics #1.

However, when someone asks you to name a #1 comic, your brain naturally pulls the "first" comic. Not literally the first, but the granddaddy. The one that led to this whole industry being what it is today. Action Comics is that book.

Maybe we can do "best (issue number) book" in the future. But that's not what Brian's doing now. His idea, in my opinion, is much more interesting than a simple "what's the best issue" list, because "best" lists have been beaten into the ground so often. Heck, we just saw one here, with the Top 100 Runs. There are only so many "best" discussions and debates one can get into. "Memorable", however, is a whole 'nother animal, and I wish people here would start accepting that instead of trying to twist Brian's intent.

When you hear #11, which of these issues comes to mind?

Come on, people, there is absolutely zero chance that 300 people in ONE DAY actually answered that question honestly. I know we’re a well read site and all, but come on!

On what planet is it dishonest for me to claim the story I've read comes to mind before the story I've never heard of?

I can go to my local comic store tomorrow, go to its Alan Moore section, and pick up a reprint of Superman Annual 11. Who is this not true for, who's also going to be able to pick up Deadpool 11 in the same store? In what way does that disqualify Superman Annual 11 as the more notable story?

notable:

1 a: worthy of note : remarkable b: distinguished, prominent

Why think when you have admin access to the server?

Certainly SOME of the 300 people answered honestly. But the vast majority clearly did not, which made the poll worthless for its intent - and, in retrospect, it was foolish of me to use a poll at all in this instance.

Amazing Fantasy #11 is the only one of these I read, so it got my vote.

On what planet is it dishonest for me to claim the story I’ve read comes to mind before the story I’ve never heard of?

I can go to my local comic store tomorrow, go to its Alan Moore section, and pick up a reprint of Superman Annual 11. Who is this not true for, who’s also going to be able to pick up Deadpool 11 in the same store? In what way does that disqualify Superman Annual 11 as the more notable story?

Certainly SOME of the 300 people answered honestly. But the vast majority clearly did not...

You're trampling on people's account of their own experience... why. I mean other than out of naked service to your own self-interest. On what basis are you calling your visitors dishonest to their faces?

Wow, I didn't know when I (along with 156 other people who visit your site and read your blogs regularly) voted, that I was doing it all wrong. Next time let us know which one you want to win in advance so that we can just go ahead and vote for it instead of what we actually like. That seems to be more honest, at least according to your definition, right?

Jesus Christ, what a bunch of babies. You know what? My vote didn't win. Big damn deal...

My two cents:

1. You should have known that if you are going to put up a poll with no limits on how many times one person can vote for a particular entry, then the results are going to be skewed. Of course people are going to keep voting for their favorites if you let them.

2. Technically, you said "whoever is winning in 24 hours gets to be the choice for #11". Whether you believe the results are shady or not, that is Superman Annual #11. You should grin, bear it, and make it the choice. Put a caveat on it by saying you doubt the veracity of the results, but go with what was picked. Because just throwing out the results and going with your own choice after promising your readers they would have a say is insulting to the people who honestly voted for Superman Annual #11.

3. I haven't read Deadpool #11. But I still think Superman Annual #11 is more notable. Even before I read the reprint in DC's latest Alan Moore compilation, I knew what the story was about and how good it was supposed to be. AND I am saying this as a huge Beast fan!

4. If you really wanted to be fair, instead of just claiming Deadpool as the winner, you either post another poll that can't be jury rigged or have people post their choice in the comments. Because, after all, you did leave the choice for this issue number in the hands of the readers of the blog.

Bill

Aside from being informed I was "dishonest" when I voted for Superman, I'm also being told that my opinion, and that of 156 others, matters less than the 109 who voted for Deadpool. Interesting math Mein Fuhrer.

I still don't understand your reasoning for arbitrarily deciding that Deadpool should get the nod. What makes you think that the people that voted for it were being any any more "honest" than those who who voted for Superman or Amazing Adventures.

uhm..this is a Croninocracy, not a democracy...what he says goes.

But he's so totally wrong about #19!

Aaaaand Reader Zero demonstrates Godwin's Law in action.

At this point streamers and balloons should descend from the ceiling. Nazi balloons.

1. You should have known that if you are going to put up a poll with no limits on how many times one person can vote for a particular entry, then the results are going to be skewed. Of course people are going to keep voting for their favorites if you let them.

Yep, that was a mistake.

Didn't I say that at least twice already that the poll was a dumb idea?

If I have a dumb idea and then realize I had a dumb idea, I'm not going to stick with my dumb idea just to be consistent with the dumbness.

You’re trampling on people’s account of their own experience… why. I mean other than out of naked service to your own self-interest. On what basis are you calling your visitors dishonest to their faces?

Because the majority clearly was being dishonest, making the poll useless for its intent.

Bill Reed's Betty and Veronica Spectacular poll is a great example.

So far, he's had almost 200 replies in one day on the topic.

Would you seriously say that his poll is an accurate indication about what people really thought about the latest issue of Betty and Veronica Spectacular?

Of COURSE not, because there's no way he'd actually get almost 200 people in one day reading this blog who actually read the latest issue of Betty and Veronica Spectacular.

Just like there is no way I'd get 300 people in one day who actually think about one of those three issues when they hear the number #11.

It was a foolish idea of mine to do a poll for a question that really did not fit a poll, and I'm not going to compound my foolishness by accepting the useless results.

And that's without any reason to vote over and over and over again, because it's not like anyone really cared about the Betty and Veronica thing.

Probably also why there's not as much uproar and Hitler comparisons on that post. Which to my mind is comic fans just not doing their job, because creating a meaningless Archie Comics poll is totally something Hitler would do.

"Bill Reed’s Betty and Veronica Spectacular poll is a great example.

So far, he’s had almost 200 replies in one day on the topic."

To be fair, I commented in the thread, asking about the issue's content, while not voting in the poll (as I had not read the book)

Duly noted!

And, again, by saying people didn't answer honestly, it's not like I'm BLAMING them for not doing so. It's just a comic blog poll, I don't blame people for not taking it serious.

Just noting that it doesn't work for accurate results.

Not since the raging Question-vs.-Quasar debates of early '08 has CSBG been so divided...

"Why think when you have admin access to the server?"

Why think, indeed, Mike, when you can kneejerk easier.

"...other than out of naked service to..."

Tell us what you know about "naked service", Mike.

Yeah, I don't even get what the admin access comment was referring to.

You’re trampling on people’s account of their own experience… why. I mean other than out of naked service to your own self-interest. On what basis are you calling your visitors dishonest to their faces?

Because the majority clearly was being dishonest, making the poll useless for its intent.

There is no defense against a personal agenda, which is literally all you have to deny peoples' account of their own experiences.

The arbitrary denial of others' accounts of their own experiences validates rapists who insist that their victim's wanted their abuse. For this reason, when you arbitrary deny others' accounts of their own experiences, you should be challenged.

“Why think when you have admin access to the server?”

Why think, indeed, Mike, when you can kneejerk easier.

“…other than out of naked service to…”

Tell us what you know about “naked service”, Mike.

I'm only left to imagine this is Alan's way of saying nothing serves his personal interest. Or that he never takes his clothes off. Whatever, Alan.

By the standards of debate as its known to western civilization, reason of even the thinnest integrity trumps arbitrary denial. I don't recommend you leave high school without demonstrating you can follow the thinnest line of reason, Alan.

Yeah, I don’t even get what the admin access comment was referring to.

So walk away from the blog. Since your access to it is relevant to nothing in particular.

With, of course, no sense of irony:

What a crock.

“I don’t like the results, so this is what’s gonna happen.”

Dictator.

Why think, indeed, Mike, when you can kneejerk easier.

Why think, indeed, Alan, when you can hold people to standards you feel free to disregard yourself. Hypocrite.

Sigh, Hitler references.

I don't think of that Superman Annual when someone mentions 11, but I don't think of ANY issue. But if someone said "what happened in Superman Annual 11?" I would have been able to answer. I had never heard of the other two issues. Since then, I have read Deadpool 11 and didn't find it funny. I mean, a couple mildly amusing parts, but meh. So Superman is the only one I'd know and the best story, imho. But I'm not the one doing the list. So y'know, go nuts with Deadpool.

So walk away from the blog. Since your access to it is relevant to nothing in particular.

It probably makes more sense for you to explain what your first comment meant, vis a vis "admin access," because if I didn't get your first reference, referring to it even more makes about as much sense as "bsdwerrhs asjhdfhs ahd dhs rhfffeer."

“bsdwerrhs asjhdfhs ahd dhs rhfffeer.”

Them's fighting words.

Alan accurately portrayed the thinking you've demonstrated here with the strawman, "I don’t like the results, so this is what’s gonna happen."

"Why think when you have admin access to the server?" was my literal, direct reference to what you may better understand by the metaphorical strawman, "my ball, my rules."

What is it about the 1:1 ratio of words to events that flabbergasts you -- but you submitting your need for people to have been dishonest as proof they've been dishonest is so completely natural to you, you treat me like I'm some kind of retard for challenging it? Is faithfulness to reality some kind of taboo subject for you? What's the hardship?

Oh, okay, then sure, "my ball, my rules" is fine.

I didn't get how the admin access part factored in there, though, because if any of the folks here who don't have admin access (the Gregs, Bill, Danielle, whatever) made a similar decision, it'd be fine, too.

But if it is just standard "I can do whatever I think best," then sure, that's true!

There is no defense against a personal agenda, which is literally all you have to deny peoples’ account of their own experiences.

The arbitrary denial of others’ accounts of their own experiences validates rapists who insist that their victim’s wanted their abuse. For this reason, when you arbitrary deny others’ accounts of their own experiences, you should be challenged.

...

...if it is just standard “I can do whatever I think best,” then sure, that’s true!

Might makes right, dude!

Good luck not getting cut by the sword you validate and live by.

Darnit, you were making sense for a comment, and then it was right back to bsdwerrhs asjhdfhs ahd dhs rhfffeer.

Ah well, in the spirit of your comments, I think that all of us should build a bridge to the 21st century so that we will let no man ask what his country can do for him, but what he can do for his country while we all must hang together or surely we will hang separately as we live free or die trying in da club!

By the standards of debate as its known to western civilization, a claim of incomprehension invalidates nothing independent of your comprehension. Since the truth of what I've said doesn't depend on you understanding it, thanks for not invalidating anything I've said.

Maybe the reason you like Grant Morrison so much is because Morrison favors writing about characters who care only what they themselves think -- like Casandra Nova, who can only fake something resembling a human persona -- which is the behavior you've been caught doing here, and can't understand why anyone should care.

Oh come now, Brian. Sesquicentennially, the carpathian of the recapitulation is such that if you by the wicker man "doo-doo head" fail to dialectically cough up the "superman roxxor, whereas I am but dust and ashes" martinization maladated by sheer doppelpoppelation of the quarchitectural absorbascon, consequently by Grabthar's hammer you must concede that Mike manifests qua rubber whereas you avatarize by the perambulation "glue."

Mike & Brian:

"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra".

~P~
PTOR

You better watch yourself, Peter, if you play with fire, you might get burned!

Or, alternately, if you mess with the bull, you get the horns!

What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

A stitch in time saves nine!!

Based on the most notable issue numbers in comic book history criteria. Wouldn't Crisis on Infinite Earths #11 be considered the most notable? It was the first issue to feature the multiverse compacted into a single universe and showed the first repercussions of this: characters and stories were no longer considered in continuity. There's literally an on-page example of this when Earth 2's Robin-2 and Huntress discover they no longer "exist" on this new Earth.

It could even be argued that this is the most notable DC issue of the last 22 years, as almost every DC universe story that came after it was effected. At least until Superboy started punching walls.

Yeah... sorry about that Brian.

I'm just reading all this crazy bile and venom and word-salad (and Hitler comparisons!?!?!) and I'm thinking; "This is a thread about COMICS! We ALL love comics. Can't we all just get along?"

So the first thing that popped into my head was the Trek quote.

Personally, I have NO PROBLEM with WHATEVER you choose as your issue numbers.
Frankly, the entire process IS a bit skewed towards your own personal realm of knowledge and immediate fields of influence (the people that YOU originally asked knew of the Deadpool story, and so it became a viable choice).

The "vote" was an unfortunate misstep.
In this "IDOL" world of ours and the multiple phone-in/text voting structures that they contain, did you think that no one would vote multiple times?

I abstained from voting, because, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, neither of those issues leaps to mind (for the varied reasons that I offered) when I think of #11.
(Man-Thing v2 # 11 gets my nod)

If I had to choose based on what I felt was more VALID (between the three candidates) I would have said "Superman annual", because even though I haven't read it, I KNOW about it.
It has leaped PAST the realm of "personal experience" (ie; did or didn't you read it) and entered the cultural zeitgeist (it's been referred to elsewhere, and even had an episode of a popular show based on it).

Deadpool, while I DID read that issue, came across as a merely GOOD issue in a weird title's run.
Honestly, writers/artists SHOULD be trying to achieve that more often than not, and the fact that this ONE story leaped out as being head and shoulders above the rest on the run, just marks an average run to my mind.
Nothing in the story was lasting or permanent. Making it essentially a "What if" type of thing.
Fun to read, but far from influential or special.
It was COOL, sure. But hardly the one #11 issue that I'd take to a desert island.

And, poor Beast.
I have and read that issue of Amazing Adventures, but still... to me, it's a costume change.
I love the blue and furry Beast. He's fun!
But his accidental drug interaction that mutated him further isn't any more "important" to me than that time they gave DR STRANGE a full face-mask and super-hero costume.
So, that issue doesn't strike me as all that "Special".
(The price guides DO, however, but I'm not interested in that.)

BUT, and this is the point; It's YOUR COLUMN!
YOU get to make the call.

Sure, you tried to make it a democratic process, and when faced with what you took as "voter fraud" (it could even have been ONE GUY making a hundred votes) it basically invalidated the ENTIRE PROCESS.

Without going in and checking ISP addresses and such, there's no way to determine the depth of the fraud, and as such the only logical answer is to VOID THE VOTE.

A re-vote would be called for in an election (unless it happens in Florida), but barring that, it all gets tossed out.

So, DEADPOOL # 11 it is.

No big whoop.

~P~
PTOR

Oh, I wasn't taking your comment as a shot. It seemed like more word salad fun, so I was just using it as a springboard for even MORE word salad fun!

It all comes down to one hanging chad . . . hanging Chad Ghostal, that is! I heard from this guy over there that he's the one with the itchy re-vote finger. Let's rustle up a posse and get 'im!

Brian, you seem be be having a hard time letting your claim of not understanding my point stand on its own. Saying it once is fine to inform me, but why protest it so much... if you are sincere?

Maybe how you're handling the events of this thread instead demonstrates how you're projecting, blaming your own insincerity on others.

When you explained the admin access point, that made sense, and that was cool. I even agreed - if the point was "ultimately, I'm making the call," then sure, it's correct.

Then you went right back into tossing around a bunch of trite, meaningless statements presented as though they have some point to them.

Good luck not getting cut by the sword you validate and live by.

This is not conversation - this is gibberish.

Wait, does that mean i can't get my sword validated here? I really don't want to pay for sword parking.

Might makes right, dude!Good luck not getting cut by the sword you validate and live by.

This is not conversation - this is gibberish.

I referred to a saying I thought was common: Live by the sword; die by the sword. You've attempted to ridicule my expectation you would know it. Maybe there's some kind of barrier to picking up references to it among the MTV - or whatever your generation.

The Superman comic was the only one I'd read, and I knew which one it was the moment I saw it. I was being honest.

I'm sorry, Jono11, but the Superman annual's ubiquity is proof you're dishonest. By at least 51%. Because someone with privilege thinks it's best.*

*Evidence of gibberish not by strawman

The gibberish is that your points have nothing to do with the situation.

Nor does a sampling of posters saying that they were telling the truth. As I already noted, certainly some posters WERE telling the truth - the vast majority clearly were NOT.

I noticed that you never replied to the Betty and Veronica Spectacular point, as you were far too busy tossing out trite adages to actually discuss the issue at hand.

If 200 people in one day reply to Bill Reed's question of whether they liked the latest issue of Betty and Veronica Spectacular, you would take the position that it would be unfair to presume that the vast majority of those respondents were not answering based upon actually reading the issue?

If so, then, well, you'd be pretty darn wrong.

Amusingly enough, there actually IS an adage that explains my stance here regarding both the Betty and Veronica poll and the #11 poll, although nowadays it is more of a legal term than an adage - Res ipsa loquitur, which is Latin for "the thing speaks for itself."

Like 200 poll replies in a day about whether people liked the latest Betty and Veronica Spectacular, 300 poll replies in one day on the #11 question as presented speaks for itself - it is false on the face, whether a smattering of the voters within were exceptions to the majority or not.

[Me] Might makes right, dude! ¶ Good luck not getting cut by the sword you validate and live by.

[Brian] This is not conversation - this is gibberish.

[Me] I referred to a saying I thought was common: Live by the sword; die by the sword. You’ve attempted to ridicule my expectation you would know it. Maybe there’s some kind of barrier to picking up references to it among the MTV- or whatever your generation.

The gibberish is that your points have nothing to do with the situation.

If you are being Honest™ why do you feel the need or the urge to make any case more than to inform me I'm incomprehensible, then let my incomprehensible statements stand on there own?

If, by definition of the word "gibberish," I have no discernable agenda -- then what is there to prevent me from doing?

So, not going to respond to the Betty and Veronica thing, I guess.

Okay, then I'm done with you on this discussion if you're not going to respond to it.

You haven't demonstrated how anything I've said depends on Betty & Veronica.

Which is it: am I speaking gibberish, or are you claiming to have constructed a reasoned argument to invalidate something cogent I've said?

Which do you want: to live at Wallbrook, or to live with your brother Charlie Babbitt -- because you can't have both, Rainman.

Mike,

For the love of god, just stop already. Lord knows I don't agree with Brian on this particular issue, but, really. It's getting to such a point where you are so far away from the original argument that it is not even germaine anymore. It's now just a battle of wills. And you are stretching more that Mr. Fantastic for some of the analogies you are making.

Seriously, this has got to end.

That's an odd time for it, Bill, because it had ended with Mike's last post (unless he was just going to reply to himself).

You think he wouldn't?

Bill. For the love of god. All I've literally been doing is respond to posts directed at me.