Comments on: Top Five Marvel Superhero Heroic Stands Against Insurmountable Odds

By: Abhiroop

Abhiroop — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:31:14 +0000

Well,it's a very good list. But I hope you guys also remember the last confrontation between Morlun and spidey. Yes, the one from the "evolve or die" story arc. Spidey does beat Morlun up, but to no avail. Morlun doesn't even break a sweat, and thrashes Spidey. Spidey then gets a second wind and beats Morlun up, again, to no avail. Now that was a good fight. What do say guys. And Brian, why don't you come up with this same list, with like a place for 25?

By: Blackjak

Blackjak — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:44:50 +0000

For a DC list, how about Batman versus Superman, the entire Gotham Police Department and the National Guard at the end of Dark Knight Returns??
Or Blue Beetle and Booster Gold vs Doomsday??

By: a1000faces

a1000faces — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 04:43:52 +0000

Man, the DC hating on in this thread! But the list is about Marvel, so it's all good. For this DC fan, it was very interesting and informative. If Marvels heroes are good at fighting it out when the chips are down and the odds are against them, then perhaps DC's heroes are better at figuring it out before the odds are against them or in order to turn the tables. So how about a Top 5 Superheroic "Aha!/Turn the Tables" Moments in the DC Universe list? I'll suggest with one that's already been mentioned elsewhere: Batman figuring out the White Martians' secret in Morrison's JLA.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:35:50 +0000

Darkseid had absorbed the power of Mordru (see EarthWar saga, where Mordru fights the Legion to a standstill) and Time Trapper. He had enslaved all of Daxam and was using the billions of them as his army of conquest. He has his Servants of Darkness, which include a clone of pre-Crisis Superman, a clone of Orion of the New Gods and a clone of a Guardian of the Galaxyâ€¦ heâ€™s pretty insurmountable, really. But the Legion fights on, against the odds because thatâ€™s what heroes do.

Wow, pretty insurmountable all right. I stand corrected.

The prime DC examples of this stuff are the Teen Titans and the Legion, I suppose.

New Teen Titans were only halfway like Marvel comics...they had the insurmountable odds part down, they just could never win against them or even put up a semi-decent showing really. Actually, they rarely fared well against challenging but surmountable odds either. A guy with nothing but heightened reflexes, a staff and some muscles routinely bitchslapped them at will. Nameless henchmen were the only villains they seemed able to handle.

By: Rene

Rene — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:28:49 +0000

Bernard the Poet, it's a strange thing when you have to root against the hero to find an example of unsurmontable odds. But maybe that is one of the reasons why I find pre-Crisis Superman a bit smug and self-righteous. He is so damn powerful that you get an urge to root for Luthor!

The prime DC examples of this stuff are the Teen Titans and the Legion, I suppose. But then again those are very Marvel-style DC comics.

By: Vincent Paul Bartilucci

Vincent Paul Bartilucci — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:04:12 +0000

Since DC doesn't do this kind of thing as often, a better DC counterpart to "The top five Marvel superhero heroic stands against insurmountable odds" might be "The top five DC superhero 'Here comes the Cavalry" moments." Y'know, that moment in the story when everything looks bleak and then, suddenly, Superman (or whoever) appears and you know some villain's getting a horrible beating. For example, the moment when Superman realizes that Batman has infiltrated the White Martians' lair? That's a "Here comes the Cavalry" moment. The moment when Batman and Robin succeed in removing the Black Mercy from Superman? That's an HCTC moment, too. And while it doesn't appear in an actual comic book, "General Zod, would you care to step outside?" is just about the most giddy HCTC moment I can think of. And I don't even like Superman!

By: Thenodrin

Thenodrin — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 06:46:28 +0000

I suspect that Wolverine didn't make the list because he *is* insurmountable odds.

Theno

By: Jono11

Jono11 — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:58:33 +0000

Buttler, I see what you're saying about the Losers, but Gavyn's moment, at least as shown later in Robinson's Starman, was amazingly moving. So was the reaction of his people. I was actually also going to put Ultraman's stand against the void as well, but it said superheroic, so I didn't. The old Crime Syndicate was so much better than the new ones we've seen. I loved Morrison's Earth-2 OGN, but the characters I don't care for as much, and aside from Syndicate Rules, nothing else good has been done with the CSA since COIE.

By: Jason Langlois

Jason Langlois — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:31:30 +0000

"I never read the great Darkness Saga, but despite how powerful Darkseid is, is he really an insurmountable threat given the combined power level of the whole Legion of Superheroes? Heâ€™s never a cakewalk, but I donâ€™t picture him as being insurmountable unless there were special story circumstances that handicapped the heroes that I donâ€™t know about."

Darkseid had absorbed the power of Mordru (see EarthWar saga, where Mordru fights the Legion to a standstill) and Time Trapper. He had enslaved all of Daxam and was using the billions of them as his army of conquest. He has his Servants of Darkness, which include a clone of pre-Crisis Superman, a clone of Orion of the New Gods and a clone of a Guardian of the Galaxy... he's pretty insurmountable, really. But the Legion fights on, against the odds because that's what heroes do.

By: buttler

buttler — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:25:40 +0000

I'd say the Losers vs. the wave of nothingness edges out Gavyn as even more insurmountable. But my favorite of that wave of heroes raging against the void as actually Ultraman of the Crime Syndicate. I loved his attitude of, essentially, "Oh well, if I'm going out, I'm going out fighting."

By: Jono11

Jono11 — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:21:53 +0000

For a DC list, I'd definitely put Batman vs. the White Martians, Batman vs. Bane, Prince Gavyn vs. the Anti-Monitor's wave of nothingness (literally the most insurmountable odds possible), and J'onn J'onzz vs. Libra's new Society.

By: Jeff R.

Jeff R. — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:03:50 +0000

For the DC list, I'd put Karate Kid (with a broken leg) vs. three Daxamites, from the end of the first year of the first Waid Legion reboot on the list, certainly.

Any number of possible choices out of Crisis on Infinite Earths, too, with my pick being the Flash story in #8.

By: T.

T. — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:27:01 +0000

I love that Key story in the JLA, but I don't think the Key really counts as "insurmountable." Isn't he just an old muscular guy with a key shaped weapon and no real powers to speak of? It was a definitely not an easy victory, but I wouldn't call it "insurmountable." I do agree with those JLU episodes you nominated though.

By: Thok

Thok — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:21:56 +0000

For a DC one, I think Connor Hawke versus the Key in JLA might be a good choice.

Has Doomsday suffered enough villain decay to make Superman versus Doomsday not count?

If you allow outside DC media, there's the "Patriot Act" episode of JLU, which is the Seven Soldiers of Victory versus a Shaggy Man stand in. Or "Initiation", which ends with Green Arrow versus Brimstone, a giant robot that had already taken out John Stewart and Captain Atom.

By: buttler

buttler — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:20:05 +0000

Darkseid: This one goes to 11.

By: Mike Loughlin

Mike Loughlin — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:15:53 +0000

T., I think post-Kirby Darkseid's power level is always "the highest." No matter what heroes oppose him, he is always (or nearly always) depicted as more powerful than all of them. Unless he's fighting Orion, who was destined to destroy him.

By: Mike Loughlin

Mike Loughlin — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:12:35 +0000

If I were to pick a Wolverine fight:

Wolverine vs. Hellfire Club during Dark Phoenix (issue 133, maybe?) - the X-Men had been defeated in minutes. Wolverine had to claw his way up from the sewers, then find a way to free his team.

By: T.

T. — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:07:18 +0000

Bernard, no one said DC doesn't do insurmountable odds at all, just that it's hard to find SUPERHERO HEROIC stands against insurmountable odds at DC. If you are including villains, than almost all DC villains face insurmountable odds as they are usually ridiculously outclassed by the heroes. I'd say the Flash and Superman villains especially. A guy with sneezing powder and some gag items (Trickster) going up against a guy who runs at light speed? Some fat middle aged guy (Prankster) going up against Pre-Crisis Superman? In general I find DC's villains to be very inspiring and brave. I never read the great Darkness Saga, but despite how powerful Darkseid is, is he really an insurmountable threat given the combined power level of the whole Legion of Superheroes? He's never a cakewalk, but I don't picture him as being insurmountable unless there were special story circumstances that handicapped the heroes that I don't know about.

By: Bernard the Poet

Bernard the Poet — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:57:13 +0000

Really liked Doom v Beyonder and The Executioner v Hel - shame they are not included on a technicality.

Also, for those who have mentioned that DC don't do insurmountable odds, I think you are overlooking the obvious. Lex Luthor. For 70 years, that boy has been fighting an Earth-bound god and been soundly beaten for his trouble. Yet he never gives up.

I love Lex Luthor. Watch Superman 2 again, he makes you proud to be a human.

By: Jason Langlois

Jason Langlois — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:55:01 +0000

The Legion versus Darkseid in the Great Darkness Saga, I think, would count for the DC side.

The Supergirl vs. the Anti-Monitor should also count, from Crisis on Infinite Earths.

The Legion versus Mordru at the end of Earthwar, would be another candidate, I think.